Want to do a 65g reef tank.... Need some advice!

[ghstrider]

Hey guys this is my first post and i want to start by saying you guys know your stuff! I've owned a smaller freshwater tanks in the past and have always wanted to own a saltwater system. Now that I am an adult and have some cash to spend and a little time to devote I want to make the dive! I am thinking of doing:

1-65gal glass tank with the overflow

1-protein skimmer

1-wet/dry filtration system rated for 125g with live rock

2-PC 96 watt bulbs w/ ballast

1-pump (unknown type)

live sand

(this was all listed on my estimate sheet from the LFS + stand w/ canopy, prefilter kit, and water)

(live rock was not included in price)


Obviously to you guys I'm a total newbie but I've been reading a bit, bought a very good starter book, and am starting to price out this system at a good LFS (a few actually). The price I was given was $1400 but I didnt get into specifics with models or brands because I wasnt ready to buy right there and in fact I will probably deal hunt online once I know what brands and models work well.

I want to make this a Reef tank w/ fish. I dont want to overwhelm with either and want to try a balance (Some nice rocks with a few corals and an anemonie accompined by a clown, some type of grouper, lionfish, and a Tang or Domino damsel). This is just an idea and wanted to pass it by you guys for critic and also for suggestions on equipment brand and models that work well for my setup. I'm not one to necessarily buy the best or most expensive item but instead the best for my setup and if that happens to be a highend model then so be it. Also i'm sure I missed a bunch of main important itmes so PLEASE add your thoughts, recommendations, and ideas!!!

Looking forward to reading the responses and continuing my research.

[Rustylugnuts]

Sounds like you got the right idea so far. Keep readin and readin (heres a Link for something in your size range). After reefing vicariously (and puttin some cash in that mayo jar) for a while youll get an idea as far as what kinda livestock youre after (any favorites as far as the corals and fish go?)
Heres an idea if you dont mind huntin for a deal, Try finding someone who is selling their entire display (with a little patience you can even find a decently equiped and stocked tank in the 60-90 g range for around that price range). Find a good LFS to trade away anything in the setup you dont particularly like for store credit and then take it from there

also read through this if you havent already and deffinately check out the DIY section while youre at it

[NanoGurl]

I don't know how to do the welcome thing, but welcome to RC!

It's pretty hard to answer your questions with one single method or answer. But here are some things to point out:

1. Don't need the wet/dry filtration. Build a sump instead (or buy one) with return pump to main system.

2. Live Rock and sand will be your main filtration methods.

3. PC lights are not going to be strong enough to keep an anemone long term (that I am aware of anyway.)

4. I think a Grouper/Lionfish tank will eat your clown and damsel if they can catch it. I don't know of many (or any) tangs that will work in a 65g long term.

5. If it's a standard 65g tank it's pretty deep so I would go with MH lighting if you want any high light demand corals over PC. T5's are also another good option.

6. ASM skimmers and Euro Reefs are very popular skimmers on RC to use. I have a ASM and it works great for my tank.

Goodluck!

[Shooter7]

To Reef Central


From your post I would say that you should continue researching for a good bit of time before you make any decisions on what system to purchase. The fact that you're talking about clowns and a grouper and a lionfish and a tang and whatever else all together in a 65g tank along with an anemone under PC lighting tells me that you need to spend many more hours reading the numerous threads linked in the post above for newbies. Nothing wrong with that, but you just need to learn the habitat requirements for the animals you're looking at. Not everything is reef safe, some fish eat corals, some fish eat the other fish, some fish grow quite big, and there are territory requirements to consider. The lighting and flow requirements of some corals can be quite extensive as well. I spent months on here reading before I ever even purchased my first system, which was an established 10g system from a local reefer. I have slowly graduated up from there (however, small systems can be rather difficult to keep happy if you don't keep a close eye on them). Over time, my plans for construction and stocking of my eventual large tank changed so many times, I don't even remember what the original thought process was. So, main advice would be to take things very slow, read a lot (particularly the newbie threads linked), and when you think you don't get something or you think you have an idea on the set up of your system, go ahead and throw it out here and get some feedback. Much easier to do that before buying something than after. Good luck.

[ghstrider]

Thanks for all the advice guys.... keep it coming. I know that certain fish will outgrow a tank but I havent gone deep into my research yet to determine exactly what fish to use in the reef. Right now I am trying to acclimate myself with all the terms used in this hobby and understanding what everything does like a skimmer or MH lights. I would like to start the system in the next month or so with just LR and maybe some small damsels when the time is right to get the cycling going but thats it. I consider myself a fast learner and am spending hours reading on this forum and a starter book I bought which is really good. Please keep the ideas coming. I was told that i could use the wet/dry but thats one thing i havent figured out yet.

[Shooter7]

Don't use damsels to cycle. They're mean and a PITA to get out later. If you put live rock in there and a little food in there, the tank will cycle itself. Don't bother with live sand either, IMO, because the sand will become quite live from the fauna on the rock. I have never used live sand and I have all kinds of critters living in my sand now.

[Rustylugnuts]

I Second shooter on that one. The rock and a bit of patience will be all you need for the cycle. Opinions as to the length of time before stocking varies widely. But if you can, take your time to see what pops out of the LR.
Also here is a list o the acronyms youll run into , keep it open in a separate window to make quick lookups easy.

[Kiel'thalin]

I found it helpful to look and ask questions about indivdual setups that you are interested in and that are easy to take care of. Here is the run-down of my tank that has been stable for 5 months with 0 problems with water parameters, fish, or corals:

Barebottom (no-sand) 46 Gallon Bow-Front Reef Setup (36�Lx16.25�Wx20�H)
Equipment:
Lighting: Aquactinics 36� T5 Fixture (5 39W Bulbs)
Bulbs: ATI Blue Special, UVL Pure Actinic, GE 6500K, ATI Blue+, UVL Aqua Sun
Refugium: 10 Gallon stocked with Cheatomorpha Algae
Refugium Light: Clap-on 23W 5100K Compact Fluorescent Floodlight
Return Pump: MAG Drive 5 (500gph)
Heater: Finnex Digital Titanium @ 150W
Protein Skimmer: Deltec MCE600
Water Flow: SEIO 820 & 620 Powerheads
Timer: Coralife Single Digital Power Strip & Target Single Digital Power Strip
Testing: Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/PH/Alkalinity, Salifert Phosphate/Calcium/Magnesium, and a Refractometer (for Specific Gravity/Salinity)

Supplements:
Alkalinity: Randy’s Recipe Part 1 (30mL daily)
Calcium: Randy’s Recipe Part 1(20mL daily)
Magnesium: Randy’s Recipe 1 Version A

Live Rock:
Fiji Premium 30-35 lbs Live Rock

Cleanup Crew (Invertebrates):
(5) Scarlet Hermit Crab (paguristes cadenati)
(15) Blue Dwarf Legged Hermit Crab (Clibanarius tricolor)
(10) Astraea Turbo Snail (Astraea Tecta)
(2) Bumblebee Snail (Pusiostoma sp.)
(4) Mexican Turbo Snail (Turbo fluctuosa)
Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis)
Fancy Banded Serpent Sea Star (Ophioderma appressum)
Red Brittle Sea Star (Ophiocoma sp.)

Fish:
Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum)
Male Lyretail Anthias (Pseudanthias squamipinnis)
Saddleback Clownfish (Amphiprion polymnus)

[ghstrider]

I may end up with a 72 bow front....decisions decisions.....

[Rustylugnuts]

I took a look at one of those earlier i love the magnification effect you get with water in them. I want a 75 but my fiance wants the 72 bow, who do you think will win that one?

[Southern Boy]

Look through your local news papers.You will be very surprised what you will run into in the 500 and under sections as well as the 500 and over stuff.I have helped several friends get started out of the papers and found several fully established reefs as well.Good luck and don't be afraid to ask any ?'s .There is no dumb ? I doubt I will ever quit learning and alot is reading the feedback of everyone elses ?s !!!

[Fraggle Rock2]

I'd buy used where you can. DIY if you are handy and have the tools/place to do it (this way you get what you want, expecially in terms of a stand and canopy).

Complete used set ups can be gotten for a steal, although they may seem expensive at first but once you have been though a setup you will realize that $2000 for a complete set up is great.

The aquarium is generally the cheapest part unless you get something very large, even then it might still be.

Get your tank drilled for an overflow if you are going the sump route.

Definitely better lights for what you want, you may regret it in the end. ALthough, PC has been successful for many people most will suggest more intense lighting (T5HO or MH). Perhaps you can reconsider your livestock if you want PCs. Check out the tank of the month (TOTM) articles over the past several years here on RC. There are some beautiful mushroom/zooanthid tanks with PC only lighting - I think there is also one that housed some SPS, but I forget.

You definitely need to do some research on fish If you are mostly a fish person that will change everything as some of those fish you listed are not good for reefs (I believe anyway, I am not really a fish person). You may want to set up a fish only with live rock (FOWLR) system if you prefer the big pretty fish (of course there are still many beautiful fish for a reef system).

Consider seeding some base rock with live rock. It is the one things I learned many people with larger tanks do to save some money and is likely to be just as effective. This way you can also easily pre-build your rock display the way you want it by drilling using fittings to stick it together. You can easily set it up to use a pegging system too (i.e., drill holes in the rock to accept pegged corals). I don't have personal experience with this, but this is my plan when I upgrade to a larger tank (most live rock in sump and a constructed base rock setup in the main display).

My personal experience with cheap sand has not been good. I'd suggest biting the bullet and getting quality stuff. THat being said, I am in Canada and the sand I used ended up having iron particles in it (Bomix play sand) and this causes some algae to grow on my sand [at least I believe that to be the case]. Other sands may be fine though. This is really only a big "problem" if you are going with a deep sand bed anyway.

If you are going to be keeping any SPS, you need to consider something for flow. Since you are going mixed, some powerheads will probably be good. I am using Hydor Koralias and they seem good so far. Tunze and Seio are also very popular brands. I am sure you can use stock powerheads positioned properly and these can also be modified to increase flow (MJmod).

Don't buy the cheapest heater. Which heater? I dare make any recommendations. Many people like the titanium heaters since they can't break like the glass ones (but they do fail). Many others use glass heaters such as those made by Ebo Jager (this is what I use). There is also the Visitherm stealth which is plastic. ALL brands have problems. Do some research on this. IMO the best solution is to get a temperature controller, but it's an added cost.

Don't forget all the little things like buckets, refractometer, powerhead to mix salt, timers and test kits. These things can add up and need to be included in your budget at the start.

Definitely install a GFCI outlet or circuit.

RO/DI filter I would say is a must also.

One thing I regret is not buying at the start is a controller. These can monitor your temperature, PH, ORP and can control your lights and powerheads etc. Some will even email you if something is wrong. With the costs of timers and a decent power bar etc.. [and piece of mind after spending $1k+ on livestock] it was likely a lot less expensive than I thought. There is a good thread comparing controllers on RC. For example, the Neptune Aquacontroller Jr. and the Lighthouse (forget the company) are introductory units (but have many features) that are reasonbly priced.

Also, I wouldn't let the LFS build your system unless you know they are knowledgable [and current] but since they recommended a wet/dry to you I am thinking not. Read, learn and layout your own plan.

Sorry if my post seems jumbled.

Cheers,
Fraggle Rock