Emergency!!!! - Stung By Rabbitfish

[kwaters]

Funny,

Here a person is truly worried about another's well being, and the talk is about "socialized medicine" , "wait times" and "costs".

I am in the medical field...and there is a word called "TRIAGE". It will single out those who need medical attention sooner than later. Trust it!

To those who did reply with the above mentioned...Way to get totally off topic...

To Reefallen:

I am glad to hear that your husband is better.

First thing:

Treat this as if the next time it happens, it will be life threatening. Glad to hear you have an Epi-pen on hand. Hopefully the docs told you (regarding your allergies) on when to use it. However, the medication is prescribed to YOU and may not cover your husband's situation. It needs to be diagnosed as either A or B.

A) Anaphylaxis is a true emergency...there is no mild form of it...all of the rest is just an allergic reaction. It will present with INSTANT shortness of breath, trouble swallowing, cool clammy skin, and paleness....a definite sign of distress. The latter could be rashes, hives, itching and redness that may come on quickly but is only a nuisance.

B) Neurotoxins are of course different...it would be impossible to tell how it could effect any person, other then text book symptoms. Any person showing signs of an altered mental status needs immediate attention. After all, with out the nervous system, we could not survive. With this, supportive care and perhaps anti-venom is the only solution...available only at the hospital.

Regardless of the political statements made during your recent disaster (I am sure you were frightened), trust in your trained medical personnel available to you with the touch of three little numbers...9-1-1

[WinnipegDragon]

This is hardly on topic of the post, but as a Canadian healthcare worker let me say, you won't wait 8-12 hours in an ER for a poisoning. Treatment is given out on a basis of who needs it fastest.

Most people who wait 8-12 hours in an ER here wait because they do not need to be at the ER. Have the Flu? Have a seat. Having a heart attack? Come right in.
It
As for those that mock universal healthcare, I hope you never have a heart attack. No middle-class family emergency fund is going to cover your quarter million dollar hospital bill.

Everyone chips in a little for those that need it here through their taxes, it's called common decency and respect for human life. We pay less per capita on healthcare and live longer than our southern neighbours. I have no idea how the richest country in the world can possibly treat it's people so badly. It's appalling.

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by kwaters
Funny,

To those who did reply with the above mentioned...Way to get totally off topic...

..

But you just repeated what everyone else said earlier what to do in that situation, regardless our differences on the "off topic" issues.

[kwaters]

Originally posted by jacmyoung
But you just repeated what everyone else said earlier what to do in that situation, regardless our differences on the "off topic" issues.

I read all of the posts....and I refuse to argue, but enjoy the last word.

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by WinnipegDragon
... No middle-class family emergency fund is going to cover your quarter million dollar hospital bill.

...

No kidding, I have known a few families lost everything due to major illness over the years, most of them never believed how quickly they could go under.

The appalling thing is someone has to pay for that hospital bill, guess who ended up with that bill? I take no pleasure seeing people go bankrupt, but use some common sense folks.

[JPagliai]

Thanks Kwaters, I'm not a medical person, but I play one on at my job (systems analyst/medical claim processor). I hope reefallen takes your advice, should they keep the fish. Honestly, I hope the rabbitfish takes a trip back to the LFS. As beautiful as they are, there's no sense playing with fire in this situation.

[sabbath]

I wounder if those gloves that go up to your elbow would protect him from the fish sting. If not, I agree trade it in at LFS.
My prayers go out to you all.

[WinnipegDragon]

Yeah, sorry I should have stated before (or perhaps instead of) my rant that I hope your husband is well. Please keep us up to date!

[virginiadiver69]

Originally posted by jacmyoung
To say that the 40+ million have no insurance by choice is really over stating how many people are in your mind set,

When did I say that 40+ million have no insurance by choice? I THINK I said approx. 7M have chosen for no insurance. My true point is the much publicized 40+M is WAY overstated.

Originally posted by jacmyoung
all you have to think is what is the saving rate in the US.

I'm guessing you are talking about financial "saving rate in the US."? I am also guessing that you think it it generally inadequate? I totally agree! To many people will spend their "disposable" income on stuff like... Interests: Reef, scuba, home theater, off road without any concern for how they would pay for health care costs.

Originally posted by jacmyoung
Which leads me to think you might be overly confident with your own availability to cover major hospital bills that can go into tens of thousands for just a few days of stay.

I do have a family insurance policy that covers"major medical". This policy is for qualified hospital stays, long term care, chemotherapy, heart transplant, etc., etc. This kind of policy eliminates the frivolous visits to the ER for the sniffles, sprained ankle, or bee sting that can be treated at home or paid for out of pocket.

Originally posted by jacmyoung

Yet we are constantly being mock by people like you for supporting the system.

What system are you supporting? If it is socialism then yes...you will be mocked.

[virginiadiver69]

Originally posted by WinnipegDragon
Having a heart attack? Come right in.

To the U.S. that is.
If the Canadian socialized medicine is so efficient why then do so many Canadian terminally ill patients end up in U.S. health care?
Our system is FAR from perfect but the free market is ALWAYS better than anything else that has been tried and subsequently failed.

[SARBoy]

I hope your husband is on the mend. Next time go to ER. I am a SAR pilot and have had to pick up too many people for being stuborn.

As for gov paid or insurance paid health care i know which i would take every time. We have the NHS and while its not perfect(nothing is!) its saved me once or twice. By the way i am a conservative but would still chose to pay higher TAX and have the NHS.

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by virginiadiver69
When did I say that 40+ million have no insurance by choice? I THINK I said approx. 7M have chosen for no insurance. My true point is the much publicized 40+M is WAY overstated.



I'm guessing you are talking about financial "saving rate in the US."? I am also guessing that you think it it generally inadequate? I totally agree! To many people will spend their "disposable" income on stuff like... Interests: Reef, scuba, home theater, off road without any concern for how they would pay for health care costs.




I do have a family insurance policy that covers"major medical". This policy is for qualified hospital stays, long term care, chemotherapy, heart transplant, etc., etc. This kind of policy eliminates the frivolous visits to the ER for the sniffles, sprained ankle, or bee sting that can be treated at home or paid for out of pocket.




What system are you supporting? If it is socialism then yes...you will be mocked.

Here is the quote: "Oh...and by the way, I and my family of four are part of the 40+ million that do not have private health insurance(by choice). "

So you do have insurance, I thought you said you do not want to pay for someone else's visits, but did not realize the insurance premium you are paying is paid for someone else's visit, and God forbid, but in case you have some major illness, someone else can pay for you.

The system we (and you) are supporting is not socialized medicine and is broken in many parts, our insurance premiums have gone up much faster than inflation for many years, even the insurance industry now agree with that it needs fixing. People just don't agree on how. You don't want to pay more taxes to support a "socialized plan," but in fact we do, in borrowing and accumulating national debt to pay for the short fall that eventually your two kids and mine will have to pay.

The sad thing is people simply slap a label such as "socialism" instead of really finding out what is working what is not.

Every time we call our HMO for a visit, their phone screener will do everything in her power to get us to stay home rather come to see a doctor. Check your insurance plans, don't be so sure when you really need them your will get all the coverage you think you will get.

And BTW, while you mock at people who visit hospital for minor illness, please be aware that good hospitals actually encourage healthy people to visit and educate them how to stay healthy, it goes a long way to prevent major illness which are the most costly. Had my father had the habit of visiting hospital more often he would have known his conditions that ultimately would have led to his stroke much sooner, and prevented it early on, instead of now the government paying dearly for his care while he is totally ****ed at the same time. Not to mention the loss of quality of life for everyone close to him.

Unfortunately those who don't have insurance (by choice or not) always end up in such bad situation sooner or later and put a major burden on us (including you) who diligently pays into the system. Because they never get a chance to learn how to live a healthy lifestyle.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by SeaMac2
If you came in by ambulance or even walked into most ERs (read: even large, urban academic centers and county hospitals) having an allergic/anaphylactoid/anaphylactic reaction, they would not make you wait in the waiting room.

Gonna have to disagree here. I got some stuff in my eyes last year, face swelled up to the size of a beach ball, and it took them 3 hours to get to me. Entire face was swollen, neck, chest, etc. Hives everywhere.


So yeah, they WILL make you wait in the waiting room. I was even having some shortness of breath.


As to insurance, if you're not getting it from your workplace, in the USA. Look to pay about $600/month for an individual, $1100/month for a family. (your company gets a group rate)


In a country where the median income is about $29K, how many people do you think can afford $7200 a year in health insurance?

[steve the plumb]

unless you are going to die you will have to wait.In Canada yes we have health care and its is free but you pay for it.High taxes(in Quebec we pay the highest of all of Canada).You will have to wait long hours and the service sometimes isn't the best.You will however see a doc. you may die in the meantime(this has happened more than once)I can tell you I have met people that were injured in the States and came back to Canada and have said the hospitals in the US took much better care of them then they did here in Canada.One customer was there for a month and complained when he came back to a hospital here.He himself said they took much better care of him there then in Canada.You do get what you pay for.20 years ago the hospitals here were great,not any more.The only good thing here is you can be homeless,broke,a dead beat or work for minimum wage and if something happens to you(what ever the cost) you will be fixed.It may take some time but they will fix you for free.Some people chose to go to the States for better service.Unless you are dying you will have to wait in the emergency room.Yes you will have to wait while you are in pain but at least you will see a doc.Its always best to do something about a medical problem then wait and maybe something worse can happen.My friends buddy died of a bee sting at 35 years old.His pen that he kept had gone out of date when he was stung and the meds didn't work.Its a crazy way to die.He was putting up a pole (to hang laundry) for a friend helping him out when a single bee stung him.He died within 5 minutes

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by steve the plumb
...The only good thing here is you can be homeless,broke,a dead beat or work for minimum wage and if something happens to you(what ever the cost) you will be fixed.It may take some time but they will fix you for free...

We have to pay to fix them too, only that we may have ten times the dead beats than you. Hospitals can not refuse care for them, and guess who pick up the tab?

Let's not have great pleasure thinking we pay less taxes, when politicians say no new taxes, what they did not tell you is you need to pay it somehow. When state and local government don't get enough from taxes, they pass bounds and raise fees to cover the shortfall. Our construction permit fees go through the roof to pay for roads and schools that is no longer covered by other resources, the cost of a little water discharge permit has gone up 6 times more than a few years ago because the agency overseeing the plant had their state funding cut to the bone, has to raise fees to recover.

You do have to pay for it, just it is not called taxes, but fees, dues, premiums and some other clever terms.

[WinnipegDragon]

To the U.S. that is.
If the Canadian socialized medicine is so efficient why then do so many Canadian terminally ill patients end up in U.S. health care?

Do your research. Very, very few Canadian patients go to the US for treatment, and often those that do go there are sent there and paid for by our Healthcare plan.

It's not uncommon for patients with *rare* ailments to go to, say the Mayo clinic, to see a specialist if there is not one in Canada. Do you know why all the specialists are in the US? Because they can make the most money there. That's it.

That's why we have doctor shortages here that cause delays in the ERs. One doctor I know very well earned a half million dollars last year between his hospital fees, clinic and his professorship at the University. He could make double this in the US with half the work, but he stays here because he hates to concept of better health for the rich.

Again, I work in Healthcare, this is first-hand knowledge, not something I read on a website somewhere.

Our system is FAR from perfect but the free market is ALWAYS better than anything else that has been tried and subsequently failed.

Really? Is that why the US is the only modern western country to have for-profit healthcare? Is that why they have the highest infant mortality rates and among the lowest life expectancy? Is that why the US is consistantly ranked so poorly in quality of life and wuality of health care by any major international body?

I can't believe anyone can seriously think that you should protect a company's right to make obscene profits off of sick people. For profit healthcare is a scourge in the US, and it is killing people every single day.

[virginiadiver69]

Originally posted by jacmyoung
Here is the quote: "Oh...and by the way, I and my family of four are part of the 40+ million that do not have private health insurance(by choice). "

I meant MY lack of it was by choice.

Originally posted by jacmyoung

So you do have insurance, I thought you said you do not want to pay for someone else's visits, but did not realize the insurance premium you are paying is paid for someone else's visit, and God forbid, but in case you have some major illness, someone else can pay for you.

I have a catastrophic care and long term care policy. The premiums that I pay are put into an investment vehicle until the time comes that it is needed for myself or my family. Whatever portion is unused upon my death will go to my families estate for their use and so on down the line.

Originally posted by jacmyoung

The system we (and you) are supporting is not socialized medicine

EXACTLY what system are you referring to? You are right I do NOT support a socialized system. I prefer a free market. It may be expensive but it is no accident that we have the BEST quality health-care in the world. That came from a free market.

Originally posted by jacmyoung
our insurance premiums have gone up much faster than inflation for many years,

It is no wonder, inflation has been flat for many(20) years.

Originally posted by jacmyoung
You don't want to pay more taxes to support a "socialized plan," but in fact we do, in borrowing and accumulating national debt to pay for the short fall that eventually your two kids and mine will have to pay.

National debt is not accumulated for health-care costs!

Originally posted by jacmyoung

The sad thing is people simply slap a label such as "socialism" instead of really finding out what is working what is not.

You can put mascara on a pig but it is still just a pig. As far as what is NOT working socialism fails every time it is tried.

Originally posted by jacmyoung


And BTW, while you mock at people who visit hospital for minor illness, please be aware that good hospitals actually encourage healthy people to visit

THIS is one of the reasons why you pay so much. There is NO reason to go to the hospital for a minor illness. This is what general practitioners or family doctors are for. Most minor illnesses can be fixed in isle 9 at your local pharmacy.

[virginiadiver69]

Originally posted by WinnipegDragon


Really? Is that why the US is the only modern western country to have for-profit healthcare? Is that why they have the highest infant mortality rates and among the lowest life expectancy? Is that why the US is consistantly ranked so poorly in quality of life and wuality of health care by any major international body?

Is that why everybody wants to come HERE?!
Please show me where you get your info concerning infant mortality rates and life expectancy rates.

Originally posted by WinnipegDragon
Do you know why all the specialists are in the US? Because they can make the most money there. That's it.

Damb right! That's why ALL of the major advances is medicine happen HERE?!

[Grins]

Oh jeez this thread has gotten way off track.

Back to the topic...I'm glad your husband is better now but I'd rethink keeping this species after this reaction.

[kmf507]

Originally posted by WinnipegDragon


I can't believe anyone can seriously think that you should protect a company's right to make obscene profits off of sick people. For profit healthcare is a scourge in the US, and it is killing people every single day.

Come on now. The free market system is what is leading to medical advances, new medicines, new machinery, etc. The profits are a necessary (and appropriate) part of process. You think companies dump millions into developing drugs only for the sake of helping people? Helping your fellow man is important, but at the end of the day, it doesn't pay the bills, or lead to healthcare advances for that matter. I'm much more content with the current system than I would be with socialized medicine. At least with this (flawed) system we have companies racing to put out the next groundbreaking procedure or drug.

[Peter Eichler]

Since this thread just won't die... Foxface stings are pretty harmless, yes her husband had some questionable symptoms, but they're the same symptoms I have every morning when I wake up Going to the emergency room for a Foxface sting is a bit extreme unless it's clear there is a really bad reaction. I think her husband was in the right for waiting it out rather than spending money and resources on something so trivial.

[virginiadiver69]

Originally posted by kmf507
At least with this (flawed) system we have companies racing to put out the next groundbreaking procedure or drug.

AMEN brother...socialized medicine will never find the cure for cancer!

[WinnipegDragon]

Is that why everybody wants to come HERE?!
Please show me where you get your info concerning infant mortality rates and life expectancy rates.

There are lots of other reasons to move to the US. We are strictly talking about Healthcare here.

As far as information, mostly WHO reports, but here you go:

US 2nd highest infant mortality rate in the modern world only behind Latvia:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/paren...dex/index.html

And average life expectancy form the WHO (3 years less than Canada):
http://www.who.int/whosis/database/c...nguage=english

Damb right! That's why ALL of the major advances is medicine happen HERE?!

Wow are you deluded. Many medical advances are made in the US (obviously), but more are made outside the US. The MRI? Thank Siemens in Germany. The HPV vaccine? Ian Frazier, University of Queensland, AUS. Insulin therapy was created by a couple of Canadians. My wife's company is developing a MRI-guided LITT therapy for brain tumors right here in Winnipeg right now, the list goes on and on.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be rude here, but you are completely uneducated on the subject. Medical breakthroughs come from all over the world, are developed by teams that span continents and are tested internationally. No one country has any right to say that all the major medical advances are made there. That's just ignorant.

[WinnipegDragon]

Originally posted by virginiadiver69
AMEN brother...socialized medicine will never find the cure for cancer!

Okay, you guys are missing a very obvious point here. Healthcare is not health research. The two are entirely different.

Healthcare is treating sick people. That is what we are talking about. Research is developing new treatments. Again, this is two entirely different things.

Besides, the only thing that we have ever encountered that is even remotely CLOSE to a cancer cure is Gardisil, and as I noted in my last post, that was developed in Australia where they have had socialized medicine since 1983.

[jacmyoung]

Originally posted by virginiadiver69
I meant MY lack of it was by choice.




I have a catastrophic care and long term care policy. The premiums that I pay are put into an investment vehicle until the time comes that it is needed for myself or my family. Whatever portion is unused upon my death will go to my families estate for their use and so on down the line.




EXACTLY what system are you referring to? You are right I do NOT support a socialized system. I prefer a free market. It may be expensive but it is no accident that we have the BEST quality health-care in the world. That came from a free market.




It is no wonder, inflation has been flat for many(20) years.




National debt is not accumulated for health-care costs!



You can put mascara on a pig but it is still just a pig. As far as what is NOT working socialism fails every time it is tried.



THIS is one of the reasons why you pay so much. There is NO reason to go to the hospital for a minor illness. This is what general practitioners or family doctors are for. Most minor illnesses can be fixed in isle 9 at your local pharmacy.

The system you and I support is one which we pride of ourselves as market driven yet broken in many ways. I have seen enough people getting on medicare due to old age when insane amount of federal money is spent on fixing them because they never had health insurance and are in very poor health conditions as a result. Our medicare system is going broke soon and you and I and our kids will have to pay for it sooner or later. There is only so much longer the Chinese and everyone else can continue to or are willing to fund our national debt, and our nation is more and more dependent on them as a result.

Part of the reasons we pay so much as a nation is many of us wait too long to visit a doctor, some by choice, often though due to lack of insurance, when the time comes they get on the federal payroll you need major procedures and fancy breakthrough drugs that can cost tens of thousands of tax dollars. Those who can not afford or do not care to live a healthy lifestyle do so because of the same mentality you have. Regular wellness check, early detection and prevention, along with continued health education goes a long way to save health costs, and you do need a universal system to achieve that, a for profit system has no interest in prevention, cuts into profit. Yes they do pour money into research and development of breakthrough wonder drugs that can bankrupt medicare, never mind the vast majority do not need them if only we as a culture can learn to live healthy.

We all going to pay for it, it is a matter of time. Over the years I have seen more and more people come to this realization, of course you always have those that will never face reality, live only by ideology.