Why do we not see this more? Battery back-up.

KMP · 07/13/2007, 01:26 AM

I've been in this hobby for 1.5 years now. I've read countless threads about tanks crashing when the power went out. I haven't ever seen anyone discuss having a battery back-up on their system.

http://www.buyupsonline.com/products...ck-ups-pro-420

You won't need to power the whole tank - just some powerheads, etc.

sjm817 · 07/13/2007, 06:45 AM

It does come up quite a bit. There have been several threads about it in this forum just this week. I use a 750W APC UPS to back up one of my Tunze 6100s.

King-Kong · 07/13/2007, 06:54 AM

its enough of an issue that EcoTech Marine (with Icecap) have a battery backup solution for their Vortech line of powerheads. When the power goes out, the unit automatically switches to the battery backup, and reduces its strength to 50% or less. The BB can run for aprox. 36 hours.

I have one.

miatawnt2b · 07/13/2007, 08:46 AM

a big issue is that for AC powerheads/pumps you can damage the pump by using a cheap UPS. Most of the cheap versions do not output true sine wave A/C which is what you need to run a standard pump without hurting it. Some of the Tunze pumps use a transformer and rectifier to convert AC-DC and the actual pump runs off of DC. A cheapo UPS on this style of pump is fine as the rectifier could care less if you input a true sine wave.

-J

rakeck · 07/13/2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by miatawnt2b
a big issue is that for AC powerheads/pumps you can damage the pump by using a cheap UPS. Most of the cheap versions do not output true sine wave A/C which is what you need to run a standard pump without hurting it. Some of the Tunze pumps use a transformer and rectifier to convert AC-DC and the actual pump runs off of DC. A cheapo UPS on this style of pump is fine as the rectifier could care less if you input a true sine wave.

-J

VERY TRUE miatawnt2b. Take a typical APC purchased at Wal-mart or Office Depot, then try and run the typical powerhead or eclipse pump, etc (especially the smaller pumps) on the back-up while on battery power and listen to the pump chatter and clatter trying to run .... What someone needs to do is design an inexpensive pump that will run on non-pure sinewave power (on battery), or we need to look for ups's that output pure sinewave while on battery (expensive)

But as far as I know, most of the larger "main-pumps" will run ok on non pure sinewave power provided it provides enough amp-hours to do any real good for the higher amp draw pumps.

jc9394 · 07/13/2007, 09:24 AM

Will this work with Tunze 6025?

http://www.buyupsonline.com/products/smart-ups-1000

Waveform Type: Sine wave

Bebo77 · 07/13/2007, 09:25 AM

i have my wavebox on a UPS...

yeldarbj · 07/13/2007, 09:27 AM

I tested both a Seio 620 and Maxijet 900 on a modified wave backup unit. Both ran fine on my Xantrex Powersource 400. In fact, I was able to run a single MJ-900 for just over 36 hours. I only paid $120 for the UPS so if I end up ruining an inexpensive powerhead, it's not that big of a deal, if it saves the investment in my tank. At some point, I do plan on getting a Tunze pump that converts AC to DC and won't have this potential problem.

On the other hand, it would have cost well over $200 for a true sine wave UPS.

miatawnt2b · 07/13/2007, 09:36 AM

Yep, the cheapest tripplite TSW UPS is the "Smart Online" series starting at about $400 for a 1000VA 800W unit.
-J

KMP · 07/13/2007, 09:57 AM

good to see i had my head in the sand. when i was enlightened yesterday i couldn't believe i've never read about this...obviously i was just looking in the wrong places.

which makes this a good thread. so there are other things to be considered "sine wave". perhaps for my home tank when i get that set up but for now i was looking at the APC unit i posted in the original thread to run a minijet 606 on an 8 gallon nano.

so my question for the experts: what would be the affect of running the battery back up i posted on a minijet 606? if it's just a matter of it may "damage" the pump, that's ok. i'd rather replace a $12 pump than loose tank corals/critters.

__________________________________

Battery back up specs:

APC Back-UPS Pro 420

- Automatic Voltage Regulation Technology (AVR) corrects under voltages, without draining the battery to handle even the deepest brownouts.
- Internet Ready â€“ 2-line phone/fax/modem/DSL or network dataline surge suppression
- Three year comprehensive warranty! â€“ On-Line, On-Battery, Overload, Replace Battery
- Audible alarms alert you of changing power and UPS conditions
- Site Wiring Fault indicator automatically detects potentially dangerous wiring problems with the wall circuit
- Intelligent battery management maximizes battery performance, life and reliability
- Self diagnostics automatically tests all components every 14 days

Output Power Capacity: 264 Watts / 420 VA
Max Configurable Power: 264 Watts / 420 VA
Nominal Output Voltage: 120V
Output Connections: (4) NEMA 5-15R

Nominal Input Voltage: 120V
Input Frequency: 50/60 Hz +/- 3 Hz (auto sensing)
Input Connections: NEMA 5-15P

yeldarbj · 07/13/2007, 10:38 AM

My guess is that it would work fine. I think you will just have to try it and see. I really don't see the need to spend the money on a true sine wave UPS to run a $12 pump.

Just remember that the computer UPS's are built to carry a high load for a very short time (just to save and shutdown) where as we would prefer to run a lower load for an extended period - that's what led me to Xantrex. It's not designed for computers necessarily. Check their website for specs.

jeffbrig · 07/13/2007, 10:44 AM

I have a 1400VA APC Smart-UPS on my Tunze 6100s. It's good for several hours of power outage, and it has been used a couple of times. I think I paid about $140 for it.

rykwong · 07/13/2007, 10:59 AM

Just curious, would battery operated air pumps do anything? Or is it best to run at least one powerhead?

daven · 07/13/2007, 01:02 PM

I was told the following. For short outages all you need is one or more battery operated airpumps. For longer you want to get more water movement.

An option is to use an an inverter that converts dc to ac. You can get ones that produce pure sine wave output. Then you could use your car battery and if it runs for a while use your car to charge the battery.

Another option is a deep cycle marine battery hooked to the inverter. These batteries will run longer than a car battery before dischanging. Keep the inverter on a trickle charger. Again, if it takes a while you can charge your deep cycle battery from the car.

The trick is to compute the power you need and get the right size inverter.

rakeck · 07/13/2007, 02:05 PM

I keep a deep cycle battery and charger and a minnow aerator I got at some outoor sporting goods store. This is better than nothing for larger systems after an hour or 2 of outage, for smaller systems, the readily available d-size battery aerators can mean the difference between a crash or not, for extended outages.

KMP · 07/13/2007, 03:50 PM

Quote:

An option is to use an an inverter that converts dc to ac. You can get ones that produce pure sine wave output. Then you could use your car battery and if it runs for a while use your car to charge the battery.

I did that when I was tank sitting my buddy's tank and his power went out. Had heaters hooked up to it though and the end result was 2 fried heaters.

Konadog · 07/13/2007, 04:00 PM

Heaters draw way to many amps to work with a battery backup. Air pumps will work the longest, but a small powerhead pointed at the surface will work better.

tgreene · 07/13/2007, 07:06 PM

Opti-UPS 1500 TSW here...

BruiseAndy · 07/13/2007, 08:55 PM

Could be patient and check ebay for local listings or craigslist for a generator. I bought a 4500 watt generator locally on ebay for $160, plus it will run my house furnace and tv

ColinPopcorn · 07/14/2007, 07:09 AM

Deep cycle marine batteries are IMO the best thing next to a generator. They will run for days. You do need a charger, and an inverter.

allengy · 07/14/2007, 07:54 AM

I made the mistake of thinking a small UPS from the office store would power my Koralia during a power outage. After purchasing the UPS I tested it and it worked, or I thought it did. The first time the power went out I realized it doesn't work. Mine is made by APC so I wrote to them. Here is part of what they said:

"Technically, it is possible to use a UPS for a fish tank. A fish tank would require a Smart-UPS 750 or higher unit because these units output a pure sine wave on battery. Anything smaller than a Smart-UPS 750 outputs a stepped approximated wave when on battery. The Smart-UPS SC model line also outputs a stepped approximated wave when on battery. The fish tank is a linear load and would not be able to accept a stepped approximated wave. We make Smart-UPS XL units that can take additional battery packs to increase the runtime. "

"Please also be aware that with an aquarium you are supposed to use a device with a GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) and unfortunately none of our UPS units or surge protectors offer a GFI. A UPS may interfere with a GFI as UPS units do
exhibit some leakage current which can trip a GFI. Please also be aware that if a UPS is plugged into a GFI circuit, the UPS would go into battery backup mode as it is designed to do when power is removed."

I have a couple power packs that I bought online. The kind you can jump start a car with. They have a gel cell battery with an inverter to run 110v stuff. They will run a small aquarium pump for days. They only problem is you have to be there when the power goes out to plug your aquarium in. I wanted a UPS to automatically kick in and run one power head for at least a few hours in case I was at work or the power went out when everyone was asleep.

KMP · 07/14/2007, 08:05 AM

that's good info - thanks. i also have a have the gel cel battery packs but like you, was looking for an automatic start option.

yeldarbj · 07/14/2007, 08:27 AM

The Xantrex unit gives you the automatic start option, just like a computer UPS, but will run much longer. I don't think it has the gel cel battery but they do make the jump start systems.

HowardW · 07/14/2007, 09:08 AM

<<< tested both a Seio 620 and Maxijet 900 on a modified wave backup unit. Both ran fine on my Xantrex Powersource 400. >>>

That's the same unit I have. I used it the other day to run several koralia pumps that were about 25W in total and the Powersource only ran them for about 3 hrs. before running out of juice, and I had just charged it up to 100% a few weeks prior. I thought it would have run them a lot longer?

allengy · 07/14/2007, 09:28 AM

My power pack is made by Xantrex also but it doesn't have the auto start feature. That would be nice. I would have thought that the Powersource 400 could power the Koralia pumps for a long time. I'm suprised it only ran for 3 hours. I plugged a
RIO 1700 into mine to see how long it would run. After 6 hours it was still running. I unplugged it after that.

07/13/2007, 01:26 AM	#1
KMP Wag More; Bark Less Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NorCal Posts: 3,602	Why do we not see this more? Battery back-up. I've been in this hobby for 1.5 years now. I've read countless threads about tanks crashing when the power went out. I haven't ever seen anyone discuss having a battery back-up on their system. http://www.buyupsonline.com/products...ck-ups-pro-420 You won't need to power the whole tank - just some powerheads, etc.

07/13/2007, 06:45 AM	#2
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	It does come up quite a bit. There have been several threads about it in this forum just this week. I use a 750W APC UPS to back up one of my Tunze 6100s. __________________ - Scott

07/13/2007, 08:46 AM	#4
miatawnt2b Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,467	a big issue is that for AC powerheads/pumps you can damage the pump by using a cheap UPS. Most of the cheap versions do not output true sine wave A/C which is what you need to run a standard pump without hurting it. Some of the Tunze pumps use a transformer and rectifier to convert AC-DC and the actual pump runs off of DC. A cheapo UPS on this style of pump is fine as the rectifier could care less if you input a true sine wave. -J __________________ Proud member of the JTCCB (jebao tuners club for cheap bastards)

07/13/2007, 09:25 AM	#7
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	i have my wavebox on a UPS... __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

07/13/2007, 09:36 AM	#9
miatawnt2b Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,467	Yep, the cheapest tripplite TSW UPS is the "Smart Online" series starting at about $400 for a 1000VA 800W unit. -J __________________ Proud member of the JTCCB (jebao tuners club for cheap bastards)

07/13/2007, 06:54 AM	#3
King-Kong Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 2,346	its enough of an issue that EcoTech Marine (with Icecap) have a battery backup solution for their Vortech line of powerheads. When the power goes out, the unit automatically switches to the battery backup, and reduces its strength to 50% or less. The BB can run for aprox. 36 hours. I have one.

07/13/2007, 09:24 AM	#6
jc9394 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 422	Will this work with Tunze 6025? http://www.buyupsonline.com/products/smart-ups-1000 Waveform Type: Sine wave

07/13/2007, 09:27 AM	#8
yeldarbj Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,295	I tested both a Seio 620 and Maxijet 900 on a modified wave backup unit. Both ran fine on my Xantrex Powersource 400. In fact, I was able to run a single MJ-900 for just over 36 hours. I only paid $120 for the UPS so if I end up ruining an inexpensive powerhead, it's not that big of a deal, if it saves the investment in my tank. At some point, I do plan on getting a Tunze pump that converts AC to DC and won't have this potential problem. On the other hand, it would have cost well over $200 for a true sine wave UPS.

07/13/2007, 09:57 AM	#10
KMP Wag More; Bark Less Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NorCal Posts: 3,602	good to see i had my head in the sand. when i was enlightened yesterday i couldn't believe i've never read about this...obviously i was just looking in the wrong places. which makes this a good thread. so there are other things to be considered "sine wave". perhaps for my home tank when i get that set up but for now i was looking at the APC unit i posted in the original thread to run a minijet 606 on an 8 gallon nano. so my question for the experts: what would be the affect of running the battery back up i posted on a minijet 606? if it's just a matter of it may "damage" the pump, that's ok. i'd rather replace a $12 pump than loose tank corals/critters. __________________________________ Battery back up specs: APC Back-UPS Pro 420 - Automatic Voltage Regulation Technology (AVR) corrects under voltages, without draining the battery to handle even the deepest brownouts. - Internet Ready â€“ 2-line phone/fax/modem/DSL or network dataline surge suppression - Three year comprehensive warranty! â€“ On-Line, On-Battery, Overload, Replace Battery - Audible alarms alert you of changing power and UPS conditions - Site Wiring Fault indicator automatically detects potentially dangerous wiring problems with the wall circuit - Intelligent battery management maximizes battery performance, life and reliability - Self diagnostics automatically tests all components every 14 days Output Power Capacity: 264 Watts / 420 VA Max Configurable Power: 264 Watts / 420 VA Nominal Output Voltage: 120V Output Connections: (4) NEMA 5-15R Nominal Input Voltage: 120V Input Frequency: 50/60 Hz +/- 3 Hz (auto sensing) Input Connections: NEMA 5-15P __________________ Kenny Current Tank Info: 70g Shallow Reef [Home]; 15g Starfire Cube [Office]

07/13/2007, 10:38 AM	#11
yeldarbj Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,295	My guess is that it would work fine. I think you will just have to try it and see. I really don't see the need to spend the money on a true sine wave UPS to run a $12 pump. Just remember that the computer UPS's are built to carry a high load for a very short time (just to save and shutdown) where as we would prefer to run a lower load for an extended period - that's what led me to Xantrex. It's not designed for computers necessarily. Check their website for specs.

07/13/2007, 10:44 AM	#12
jeffbrig Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 5,548	I have a 1400VA APC Smart-UPS on my Tunze 6100s. It's good for several hours of power outage, and it has been used a couple of times. I think I paid about $140 for it. __________________ Beware the power of stupid people in large groups..... Current Tank Info: formerly 250g room divider

07/13/2007, 10:59 AM	#13
rykwong Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Irvine Posts: 1,029	Just curious, would battery operated air pumps do anything? Or is it best to run at least one powerhead?

07/13/2007, 01:02 PM	#14
daven Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 283	I was told the following. For short outages all you need is one or more battery operated airpumps. For longer you want to get more water movement. An option is to use an an inverter that converts dc to ac. You can get ones that produce pure sine wave output. Then you could use your car battery and if it runs for a while use your car to charge the battery. Another option is a deep cycle marine battery hooked to the inverter. These batteries will run longer than a car battery before dischanging. Keep the inverter on a trickle charger. Again, if it takes a while you can charge your deep cycle battery from the car. The trick is to compute the power you need and get the right size inverter.

07/13/2007, 02:05 PM	#15
rakeck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 56	I keep a deep cycle battery and charger and a minnow aerator I got at some outoor sporting goods store. This is better than nothing for larger systems after an hour or 2 of outage, for smaller systems, the readily available d-size battery aerators can mean the difference between a crash or not, for extended outages.

07/13/2007, 04:00 PM	#17
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	Heaters draw way to many amps to work with a battery backup. Air pumps will work the longest, but a small powerhead pointed at the surface will work better. __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

07/13/2007, 07:06 PM	#18
tgreene Registered Member. Join Date: May 2003 Location: Jonesboro, AR Posts: 2,712	Opti-UPS 1500 TSW here... __________________ WWBAD Current Tank Info: 157g custom Starphire display, 450g frag system, 285g fish QT system, 400g Shark tank

07/13/2007, 08:55 PM	#19
BruiseAndy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ogden ut Posts: 896	Could be patient and check ebay for local listings or craigslist for a generator. I bought a 4500 watt generator locally on ebay for $160, plus it will run my house furnace and tv __________________ "Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Current Tank Info: 150g and 75g

07/14/2007, 07:09 AM	#20
ColinPopcorn Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 152	Deep cycle marine batteries are IMO the best thing next to a generator. They will run for days. You do need a charger, and an inverter. __________________ Did I say that, or just think ? Current Tank Info: 24g JBJ Nano Cube

07/14/2007, 07:54 AM	#21
allengy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: N. Calif Posts: 56	I made the mistake of thinking a small UPS from the office store would power my Koralia during a power outage. After purchasing the UPS I tested it and it worked, or I thought it did. The first time the power went out I realized it doesn't work. Mine is made by APC so I wrote to them. Here is part of what they said: "Technically, it is possible to use a UPS for a fish tank. A fish tank would require a Smart-UPS 750 or higher unit because these units output a pure sine wave on battery. Anything smaller than a Smart-UPS 750 outputs a stepped approximated wave when on battery. The Smart-UPS SC model line also outputs a stepped approximated wave when on battery. The fish tank is a linear load and would not be able to accept a stepped approximated wave. We make Smart-UPS XL units that can take additional battery packs to increase the runtime. " "Please also be aware that with an aquarium you are supposed to use a device with a GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) and unfortunately none of our UPS units or surge protectors offer a GFI. A UPS may interfere with a GFI as UPS units do exhibit some leakage current which can trip a GFI. Please also be aware that if a UPS is plugged into a GFI circuit, the UPS would go into battery backup mode as it is designed to do when power is removed." I have a couple power packs that I bought online. The kind you can jump start a car with. They have a gel cell battery with an inverter to run 110v stuff. They will run a small aquarium pump for days. They only problem is you have to be there when the power goes out to plug your aquarium in. I wanted a UPS to automatically kick in and run one power head for at least a few hours in case I was at work or the power went out when everyone was asleep.

07/14/2007, 08:05 AM	#22
KMP Wag More; Bark Less Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NorCal Posts: 3,602	that's good info - thanks. i also have a have the gel cel battery packs but like you, was looking for an automatic start option. __________________ Kenny Current Tank Info: 70g Shallow Reef [Home]; 15g Starfire Cube [Office]

07/14/2007, 08:27 AM	#23
yeldarbj Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,295	The Xantrex unit gives you the automatic start option, just like a computer UPS, but will run much longer. I don't think it has the gel cel battery but they do make the jump start systems.

07/14/2007, 09:08 AM	#24
HowardW Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 1,763	<<< tested both a Seio 620 and Maxijet 900 on a modified wave backup unit. Both ran fine on my Xantrex Powersource 400. >>> That's the same unit I have. I used it the other day to run several koralia pumps that were about 25W in total and the Powersource only ran them for about 3 hrs. before running out of juice, and I had just charged it up to 100% a few weeks prior. I thought it would have run them a lot longer? __________________ Florida live rock addict

07/14/2007, 09:28 AM	#25
allengy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: N. Calif Posts: 56	My power pack is made by Xantrex also but it doesn't have the auto start feature. That would be nice. I would have thought that the Powersource 400 could power the Koralia pumps for a long time. I'm suprised it only ran for 3 hours. I plugged a RIO 1700 into mine to see how long it would run. After 6 hours it was still running. I unplugged it after that.