Terrible morning - sump cracked!

ACBlinky · 08/15/2007, 09:09 AM

I had just about the worst morning ever. My 12 year old dog tends to have accidents these days, and this morning was no exception. As I went from the hall to the living room at 5:30am to clean up the mess, I found myself with wet feet. Oh no.

I opened the 90g stand doors and discovered a huge crack down one of the short sides of the 30g sump. The sump was nearly empty, and the ATO reservoir was also empty. There was salt water under our entertainment centre, the cabinet where I store the MH ballast and fish supplies, all over the floor, it was a MESS. It leaked under/through the walls into our kitchen and bathroom as well.

The kicker is that we can't remove or replace the sump without moving the 90g - the sump only fits in through the top opening of the stand, and only then if we remove the cross brace. This afternoon we'll be moving all our livestock, rock, water and sand into bins and buckets, driving to the LFS to get a new 30g tank, then ripping out the baffles from the old one and re-siliconing them into the new tank. We'll set everything up again but leave the sump dry for 24h until the silicone is cured, then start the main pump again and cross our fingers.

The only positive thing I can say is at least I'm not working today, and thankfully it's the sump and not the display. What a day.

Travis L. Stevens · 08/15/2007, 09:19 AM

Sorry to hear that ACBlinky. Leason learned though, never place a sump in that you can't take out later without tearing down the tank. Good luck with the rebuild.

hensleyrobw · 08/15/2007, 10:28 AM

can't you just break the sump enough to get it out, then replace with smaller sump or a pair, beats tearing the display down.

edwing206 · 08/15/2007, 11:23 AM

Sorry to hear that. That's why acrylic kicks ***.

RichConley · 08/15/2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by edwing206
Sorry to hear that. That's why acrylic kicks ***.

Acrylic breaks too.

What broke the sump? They dont just break on their own... baffles too long maybe, or a poorly supported bulkhead?

ACBlinky · 08/15/2007, 04:29 PM

We could have broken the sump to get it out, but really we needed to move the entire display anyway to dry out the floor underneath, so we figured we might as well go all the way. Also we wouldn't have been able to get a new sump in (unless we used a 10g or removed the front center brace).

All day we've been trying to figure out what broke the sump - when we tore everything down we discovered that there were THREE cracks, all originating from one point at the bottom of the right hand side of the sump. It's part of the pump chamber, and close to where a baffle was siliconed in (the 'fuge is along the entire front of the tank, the bubble trap is on the opposite side of the sump to the break). I'm wondering if it might have been caused by vibrations from the Mag 9.5? Honestly it looks like someone took a bat to it, and there's really no reason for that much cracking that we can think of.

We're off to the LFS now to pick up a new sump, and I'm going to run the situation by the staff to see if they have any ideas...

Roy G. Biv · 08/15/2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ACBlinky
We could have broken the sump to get it out, but really we needed to move the entire display anyway to dry out the floor underneath, so we figured we might as well go all the way. Also we wouldn't have been able to get a new sump in (unless we used a 10g or removed the front center brace).

I had this happen too. I installed baffles, wedged them in and siliconed them. It was the stress on the glass from the baffles that did it to me many days later. I smashed the sump with a hammer to get it out. Also the center brace is commonly removed with 90 gal stands. I'm not suggesting it, but people do it.

ACBlinky · 08/15/2007, 09:59 PM

Well, we're in the middle of the rebuild... things are going very slowly. I ended up buying the same size sump - it would be a lot of work to resize the hard plumbing and we'd need parts we can't get immediately, so we elected to go with the long sump again even though it's a major effort to remove in the event of an emergency.

When I removed the baffles and went to put them into the new sump, I was surprised to see that they were TIGHT - I think I got overzealous when I was first building it, and did just what you did, Pmolan - wedged them in and caused stress on the glass. The long baffle that runs from one end of the tank to the other was particularly tight, to the point of bending the baffle a bit, and it was at the bottom of this that the crack occurred... I think I may have found out what caused the problem, and it's entirely my own fault. We cut and then sanded down the baffle so it fits comfortably, so hopefully we'll never have today's accident repeat itself.

Now, back to rebuilding...

[17]shawn[17] · 08/15/2007, 10:30 PM

sorry to hear that

i could only wish i lived in toronto i had my first vist to reef raft and wheres the reef today if only i had more money i would of cleaned them out,they have great coral!

melev · 08/15/2007, 10:45 PM

What a mess. Glad you figured out the cause. Baffles should have a 1/8" gap on each end to avoid stressing the glass. Silicone fills that void nicely.

Hope your livestock can handle the temporary upheaval.

ACBlinky · 08/16/2007, 02:18 AM

Me too, it must be very stressful on them to be suddenly removed from their home and put into Rubbermaids, with only PVC and a little rock to hide in. I separated the inverts, corals, rock and fish into their own separate bins, each with a powerhead and/or airstone for circulation/oxygenation. My fish are pretty tough (gobies, damsels, YT, Lamarck's swallowtail angel, clown); there's nothing too delicate in the mix, so I'm not terribly worried.

The tank is back up, the sump is in the stand curing and will be filled tomorrow night (after a thorough rinsing). Right now I've got new sand (didn't want to reuse the old stuff) and SW in the tank, with just the skimmer and two powerheads running. I figure the tank should be fairly clear by nighttime tomorrow, and if all goes well when we put the new sump into service, we'll add the livestock back late tomorrow or early the next day.

Nano Chris · 08/16/2007, 07:47 AM

Sorry to hear about that, it happens to the best of us, i had my skimmer (css 125) overflow once and it flooded the back of the floor where my tank was and went down into the bathroom down stairs, good thing i caught it in time though.

What i would do is get a water alarm, so if it senses water (leaking from the tank) you would hear it and get to it in time.

Frick-n-Frags · 08/16/2007, 08:14 AM

I hope everyone reads this thread and takes heed of:

poor initial design can severely eat your lunch during abnormal operating situations.

Roy G. Biv · 08/16/2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ACBlinky

Right now I've got new sand (didn't want to reuse the old stuff) and SW in the tank

Thumbs up for you! To reuse is always a bad idea. However you can add a cupfull of the old stuff to seed the new sand. Good Luck!

kysard1 · 08/16/2007, 05:50 PM

The baffles in a glass sump should have 1/8" on each side, so should be cut 1/4" shorter than the measured inside clearance.

OceanSpray · 08/16/2007, 05:51 PM

That sounds rough! I guess its always good to look for the positives...like at least nothing electrical shorted out from the water etc.. Your disaster may prevent another one however. I am hoping to set up a 30 gallon sump on my system soon, and If I hadn't read this thread, I would have cut the baffles tight. I never considered stressing the glass and all the vibrations and stuff. Now I know not to do that, so maybe some others may benefit from this also! Best of luck with the restoration!!

Waxxiemann · 08/16/2007, 06:11 PM

Yeah, luckily you didn't step in a puddle with a charge, that would have made a bad day a LOT worse.

I once popped a 20 gallon long trying to wedge a peice of egg crate in there as a divider for 2 over excited fish.

I hope it all pans out ACBlinky.

melev · 08/16/2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Waxxiemann
I once popped a 20 gallon long trying to wedge a peice of egg crate in there as a divider for 2 over excited fish.

Were they even more excited after that happened?

ACBlinky · 08/16/2007, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the support guys

The tank is back up and running (no fish, coral or inverts yet, just rock), and I'm happy to say the sump is functioning very well. The water is cloudy from the new sand but the filter sock seems to be doing its job and hopefully I'll be able to see the rockwork by tomorrow morning!

Now that all the horrible stuff is over, I'm looking on the bright side:

In the old sump, the center baffle of the bubble trap was loose on one side and had been secured with a blob of purple epoxy, which left it fugly and leaky. By rebuilding, I got the opportunity to make sure that all three baffles are very securely in place by roughing up the edges of the acrylic (so the silicone will hold better) and using extra silicone.

When we went to the LFS to get sand, I decided to switch from regular aragonite to sugar-sized aragonite, because I prefer the look of finer sand (the sixspot goby will probably enjoy it as well). It's a SSB, really just for looks, so I figured why not get what I like? My husband likes it as well, he says 'it looks like a real beach' now

I also got to make a count of the remaining CUC (holy cow do we ever need more snails and crabs!) and take a good close look at each fish, clean up the back and bottom of the tank, check all the seals, soak the skimmer and all the pumps in vinegar and organized all the wires behind the tank. Lastly, I moved the powerheads and locline so the current is more turbulent.

I wouldn't want to repeat the last 24h (though we'll come close when we move in a few weeks), but at least now the tank feels shiny and new, the equipment is squeaky clean, and there's a better current pattern in the tank.

Lesson learned the hard way - never wedge baffles/dividers into a sump, use silicone to fill in the gaps! I'll be very happy if this thread helps others before they build, that's something really good that can come out of a lousy situation.

ACBlinky · 08/17/2007, 02:34 PM

I wanted to post a picture now that everything's back up and running. The tank is still very cloudy, but improving by the hour. The fish seem just fine - the tang was picking at algae on the rocks 30 seconds after I placed her into the tank. Everyone's had a meal and now they're all busy checking the place out. The corals are still semi-closed, but most of them are perking up pretty quickly.

Here's the tank:

And here's the new sump, which is working perfectly so far and will hopefully continue to do so for years to come:

melev · 08/17/2007, 02:37 PM

Glad you're back in business.

Waxxiemann · 08/17/2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
Glad you're back in business.

Agreed. Nice Lamarcks by the way, I added a tiny one about 3 weeks ago. Great fish.

ACBlinky · 08/17/2007, 03:22 PM

Thanks guys

Waxxiemann - thank you, she's my pride and joy. When I got her, she was just a teeny little thing with a shredded tail. Now she's healthy and fat, and it's only been about six months. She's such a beautiful girl, and has a great personality. Enjoy your Lamarck's they're fantastic fish

.

OceanSpray · 08/17/2007, 05:04 PM

Nice job!! I'm glad everything went well! Very nice looking setup!

lavith · 08/17/2007, 06:29 PM

After reading through this thread, I am concerned as well since I had to really force the baffles in betweem the front and the back panes of my 30G tank sump. The system been running over 2 years now without the crack. I hope it's gonna be ok until i upgrade to 120G real soon.

08/15/2007, 09:09 AM	#1
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	Terrible morning - sump cracked! I had just about the worst morning ever. My 12 year old dog tends to have accidents these days, and this morning was no exception. As I went from the hall to the living room at 5:30am to clean up the mess, I found myself with wet feet. Oh no. I opened the 90g stand doors and discovered a huge crack down one of the short sides of the 30g sump. The sump was nearly empty, and the ATO reservoir was also empty. There was salt water under our entertainment centre, the cabinet where I store the MH ballast and fish supplies, all over the floor, it was a MESS. It leaked under/through the walls into our kitchen and bathroom as well. The kicker is that we can't remove or replace the sump without moving the 90g - the sump only fits in through the top opening of the stand, and only then if we remove the cross brace. This afternoon we'll be moving all our livestock, rock, water and sand into bins and buckets, driving to the LFS to get a new 30g tank, then ripping out the baffles from the old one and re-siliconing them into the new tank. We'll set everything up again but leave the sump dry for 24h until the silicone is cured, then start the main pump again and cross our fingers. The only positive thing I can say is at least I'm not working today, and thankfully it's the sump and not the display. What a day. __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/15/2007, 09:19 AM	#2
Travis L. Stevens Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Perry, OK Posts: 13,946	Sorry to hear that ACBlinky. Leason learned though, never place a sump in that you can't take out later without tearing down the tank. Good luck with the rebuild. __________________ Travis Stevens Current Tank Info: Restarting 28g Bowfront

08/15/2007, 11:23 AM	#4
edwing206 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Shoreline,Washington Posts: 4,518	Sorry to hear that. That's why acrylic kicks ***. __________________ The name's Luis. :) Current Tank Info: 50G cube

08/15/2007, 04:29 PM	#6
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	We could have broken the sump to get it out, but really we needed to move the entire display anyway to dry out the floor underneath, so we figured we might as well go all the way. Also we wouldn't have been able to get a new sump in (unless we used a 10g or removed the front center brace). All day we've been trying to figure out what broke the sump - when we tore everything down we discovered that there were THREE cracks, all originating from one point at the bottom of the right hand side of the sump. It's part of the pump chamber, and close to where a baffle was siliconed in (the 'fuge is along the entire front of the tank, the bubble trap is on the opposite side of the sump to the break). I'm wondering if it might have been caused by vibrations from the Mag 9.5? Honestly it looks like someone took a bat to it, and there's really no reason for that much cracking that we can think of. We're off to the LFS now to pick up a new sump, and I'm going to run the situation by the staff to see if they have any ideas... __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/15/2007, 09:59 PM	#8
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	Well, we're in the middle of the rebuild... things are going very slowly. I ended up buying the same size sump - it would be a lot of work to resize the hard plumbing and we'd need parts we can't get immediately, so we elected to go with the long sump again even though it's a major effort to remove in the event of an emergency. When I removed the baffles and went to put them into the new sump, I was surprised to see that they were TIGHT - I think I got overzealous when I was first building it, and did just what you did, Pmolan - wedged them in and caused stress on the glass. The long baffle that runs from one end of the tank to the other was particularly tight, to the point of bending the baffle a bit, and it was at the bottom of this that the crack occurred... I think I may have found out what caused the problem, and it's entirely my own fault. We cut and then sanded down the baffle so it fits comfortably, so hopefully we'll never have today's accident repeat itself. Now, back to rebuilding... __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/15/2007, 10:28 AM	#3
hensleyrobw Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 54	can't you just break the sump enough to get it out, then replace with smaller sump or a pair, beats tearing the display down.

08/15/2007, 10:30 PM	#9
[17]shawn[17] Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Brockville Ontario Canada Posts: 844	sorry to hear that i could only wish i lived in toronto i had my first vist to reef raft and wheres the reef today if only i had more money i would of cleaned them out,they have great coral! __________________ shawn “We will only conserve what we love. We will only love what we understand. We will only understand what we are taught.”

08/15/2007, 10:45 PM	#10
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	What a mess. Glad you figured out the cause. Baffles should have a 1/8" gap on each end to avoid stressing the glass. Silicone fills that void nicely. Hope your livestock can handle the temporary upheaval.

08/16/2007, 02:18 AM	#11
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	Me too, it must be very stressful on them to be suddenly removed from their home and put into Rubbermaids, with only PVC and a little rock to hide in. I separated the inverts, corals, rock and fish into their own separate bins, each with a powerhead and/or airstone for circulation/oxygenation. My fish are pretty tough (gobies, damsels, YT, Lamarck's swallowtail angel, clown); there's nothing too delicate in the mix, so I'm not terribly worried. The tank is back up, the sump is in the stand curing and will be filled tomorrow night (after a thorough rinsing). Right now I've got new sand (didn't want to reuse the old stuff) and SW in the tank, with just the skimmer and two powerheads running. I figure the tank should be fairly clear by nighttime tomorrow, and if all goes well when we put the new sump into service, we'll add the livestock back late tomorrow or early the next day. __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/16/2007, 07:47 AM	#12
Nano Chris Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,758	Sorry to hear about that, it happens to the best of us, i had my skimmer (css 125) overflow once and it flooded the back of the floor where my tank was and went down into the bathroom down stairs, good thing i caught it in time though. What i would do is get a water alarm, so if it senses water (leaking from the tank) you would hear it and get to it in time. __________________ Chris ------- 34 Gallon Red Sea Max 130! Setup (Just got back into the hobby) Current Tank Info: 34 Gallon RedSeaMax!

08/16/2007, 08:14 AM	#13
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	I hope everyone reads this thread and takes heed of: poor initial design can severely eat your lunch during abnormal operating situations. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

08/16/2007, 05:50 PM	#15
kysard1 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: SE PA Posts: 827	The baffles in a glass sump should have 1/8" on each side, so should be cut 1/4" shorter than the measured inside clearance.

08/16/2007, 05:51 PM	#16
OceanSpray Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Alabama / Roll Tide Posts: 162	That sounds rough! I guess its always good to look for the positives...like at least nothing electrical shorted out from the water etc.. Your disaster may prevent another one however. I am hoping to set up a 30 gallon sump on my system soon, and If I hadn't read this thread, I would have cut the baffles tight. I never considered stressing the glass and all the vibrations and stuff. Now I know not to do that, so maybe some others may benefit from this also! Best of luck with the restoration!! __________________ "Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain Current Tank Info: 90 - Mixed Reef / 30 Sump

08/16/2007, 06:11 PM	#17
Waxxiemann Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 2,364	Yeah, luckily you didn't step in a puddle with a charge, that would have made a bad day a LOT worse. I once popped a 20 gallon long trying to wedge a peice of egg crate in there as a divider for 2 over excited fish. I hope it all pans out ACBlinky. __________________ "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." Albert Einstein

08/16/2007, 07:12 PM	#19
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	Thanks for the support guys The tank is back up and running (no fish, coral or inverts yet, just rock), and I'm happy to say the sump is functioning very well. The water is cloudy from the new sand but the filter sock seems to be doing its job and hopefully I'll be able to see the rockwork by tomorrow morning! Now that all the horrible stuff is over, I'm looking on the bright side: In the old sump, the center baffle of the bubble trap was loose on one side and had been secured with a blob of purple epoxy, which left it fugly and leaky. By rebuilding, I got the opportunity to make sure that all three baffles are very securely in place by roughing up the edges of the acrylic (so the silicone will hold better) and using extra silicone. When we went to the LFS to get sand, I decided to switch from regular aragonite to sugar-sized aragonite, because I prefer the look of finer sand (the sixspot goby will probably enjoy it as well). It's a SSB, really just for looks, so I figured why not get what I like? My husband likes it as well, he says 'it looks like a real beach' now I also got to make a count of the remaining CUC (holy cow do we ever need more snails and crabs!) and take a good close look at each fish, clean up the back and bottom of the tank, check all the seals, soak the skimmer and all the pumps in vinegar and organized all the wires behind the tank. Lastly, I moved the powerheads and locline so the current is more turbulent. I wouldn't want to repeat the last 24h (though we'll come close when we move in a few weeks), but at least now the tank feels shiny and new, the equipment is squeaky clean, and there's a better current pattern in the tank. Lesson learned the hard way - never wedge baffles/dividers into a sump, use silicone to fill in the gaps! I'll be very happy if this thread helps others before they build, that's something really good that can come out of a lousy situation. __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/17/2007, 02:34 PM	#20
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	I wanted to post a picture now that everything's back up and running. The tank is still very cloudy, but improving by the hour. The fish seem just fine - the tang was picking at algae on the rocks 30 seconds after I placed her into the tank. Everyone's had a meal and now they're all busy checking the place out. The corals are still semi-closed, but most of them are perking up pretty quickly. Here's the tank: And here's the new sump, which is working perfectly so far and will hopefully continue to do so for years to come: __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/17/2007, 02:37 PM	#21
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Glad you're back in business.

08/17/2007, 03:22 PM	#23
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	Thanks guys Waxxiemann - thank you, she's my pride and joy. When I got her, she was just a teeny little thing with a shredded tail. Now she's healthy and fat, and it's only been about six months. She's such a beautiful girl, and has a great personality. Enjoy your Lamarck's they're fantastic fish . __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/17/2007, 05:04 PM	#24
OceanSpray Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Alabama / Roll Tide Posts: 162	Nice job!! I'm glad everything went well! Very nice looking setup! __________________ "Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain Current Tank Info: 90 - Mixed Reef / 30 Sump

08/17/2007, 06:29 PM	#25
lavith Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Saigon, Vietnam Posts: 133	After reading through this thread, I am concerned as well since I had to really force the baffles in betweem the front and the back panes of my 30G tank sump. The system been running over 2 years now without the crack. I hope it's gonna be ok until i upgrade to 120G real soon.