I need a hair cut.

smartang22 · 08/23/2007, 08:05 AM

I am so tired of hair algae. I have tried all of the normal suggestions:
1. Cut back on feeding
2. Cut back on lighting time
3. Pull it out by hand
4. Add Chaeto
5. Use Chemipure and Purigen
6. Pull it out by hand
7. Pull it out by hand

Well, it is still running rampant and I am very frustrated.

I feed once a day with Cyclopeeze or mysis to a clown, yellow watchman goby, and two cleaner shrimp. I also add one drop every other day of phytoplankton for the zoas and other polyps. I do a two -three gallon water change every week. (BTW I have a 14 gallon BioCube). I test my parameters and they are at 0 (amm., trates, trites) phosphate is almost at zero (the next level up). The tank has been up since Feb. I waited about 5 weeks before adding a clean up crew and then another 2 weeks to add the shrimp and then added the clown followed by the goby.

What can I do? Am I fighting a losing battle? Should I take the rock out and do a major scrubbing? I tried that before and it came back. But should I do it again anyway? Please help!

SaltyDr · 08/23/2007, 08:07 AM

My guess is that your phosphates are a major contributor. Although they are registering low, there is a buch tied up in the algae. Can you run some phosban or the like?

Sk8r · 08/23/2007, 08:27 AM

You need some snails, for one thing, and scarlet hermits.

Definitely you have phosphate and nitrate fueling this growth. A nano is just hard to manage in this regard, because everything that eats the stuff is too big for you. But try a purple pincushion urchin...a pita because he shoves rock, but he'll get that phosphate into solution from his poo, and then phosban can uptake it.

fatdaddy · 08/23/2007, 08:29 AM

Where is your Ca+ at? I started dosing with kalkwasser and it made a big difference after awhile. It seems where the coraline starts to grow, the hair algae has a very difficult time regaining a hold. Also, the Ca+ will interact with phosphate to keep these levels low.

I used a stiff bottle brush to scrub the rocks off. The ditritus builds up under the algae and provides nutrients. You're tank can measure zero on both nitrates and phosphates and you can still have healthy hair algae growing. Use some sort of filter material to collect the hair algae so it doesn't just add to the bio load.

Also, I'd recommend giant turbos and a sea hare. The sea hare isn't the cute lettuce variety, but the big ugly kind. They will go after the hair algae. You go from a problem tank to a starving sea hare in weeks, so have a backup plan on how to feed this little guy. I've never seen mine eat Nori, but I have a second tank that is so far much dirtier then the first.

rustybucket145 · 08/23/2007, 08:47 AM

are you using tap water?

MalHavoc · 08/23/2007, 08:57 AM

Here's the thing about water tests. You're testing the nitrate and phosphate levels in the water. If you've got rampant algae growth, there might not be much in the water on a steady state basis because it's being consumed by the algae growth.

How old is the tank?

I'm surprised that more people don't just expect algae problems early on, when a new tank is set up. when I set up my 180, there was a period of a few months where I didn't even want to look at it, it was so bad. But, my detrivore and herbivore eaters ate a lot of algae, kalkwasser dosing helped, and things sorted themselves out.

New liverock can leach quite a bit of phosphate into water. I'll see if I can dig up some references for that.

MalHavoc · 08/23/2007, 09:15 AM

Might be also worth mentioning that cheap grades of carbon can leach considerable amounts of phosphate into your water, because they are made with a process that involves washing with phosphoric acid.

smartang22 · 08/23/2007, 09:16 AM

My tank has been up since Feb. Again I took my time adding things to it but the hair algae just took hold and kept going. I knew what to expect and I did get the diatom bloom, and cyano, and I just can't control the hair alage. I have not added any new live rock since March.

I do have hermits but they have blue legs. I have about 10 of those. I had snails, but they fell off the glass and died. I have one that digs under the sand but I never see him.

I thought urchins get too big for such a small tank. Also, I tried a sea hair but he died the next day. I even spent like 3 hours acclimating him. The water tested fine back then too.
And I was thinking about getting more snails. So maybe that will be a purchase in the near future. It is really hard to find snails at the LFS around me.

I think I am going to try and pull the rocks out and give them a good scrubbing. And pointers for that? I was going to scrub them in a bucket of saltwater and then after I am done rinse them with clean saltwater. Does that sound like a good way to do that? I am also going to look into the Ca+ issue and phosban as well. Those are two things I did not think of before. But I do have coraline growth that seems to be increasing each week. I like it too! But I have been scraping it off of the glass. I also had a feeling that I wasn't registering much phosphates because it was getting eaten up by the algae (both hair and macro). I also know I need to get to the root of the problem and I need to focus on what that might be. If I am doing things correctly then this really is just a matter of waiting it out. Again, it is just so frustrating.

Thanks so much for the comments and suggestions. This is reinforcing the knowledge I have already gained as well as being able to add to it. THANKS!!!!!

smartang22 · 08/23/2007, 09:20 AM

I don't have carbon BTW. I just have chemipure elite and purigen. I thought those would help the nitrate/nitrites stay under control and keep the phosphates down. I keep them in the back middle chamber. Should I do anything special with them other than rinsing them every few water changes?

Oh, I also use filter floss which I change every few days. I sits on the top of the middle chamber.

spoiledcats · 08/23/2007, 09:24 AM

Are you buying water, or do you have an RO unit?

fatdaddy · 08/23/2007, 09:29 AM

I'd scrub some of the rocks during water changes. I used the old water to scrub with and then added them back to the tank. All was well.

Poor the waste water out slow and check the bottom of the bucket. I'd find hermits and snails that somehow hitchhiked off the rocks and I scrubbed off.

I know it's frustrating, but my tank cycled after I upgraded lights and the hair algae disappeared right on schedule 6 months later.

My sea hare (aka "Sammy the Sea Slug") is doing fine. Sorry that yours died. I got mine from here:
http://stores.ebay.com/id=60142061&s...TRK:MEFS:MESST

but he's currently out of them.

smartang22 · 08/23/2007, 10:29 AM

I am buying water. I try to buy DI/RO water but sometimes it is just DI or just RO. I used to use tap water for about 2 months worth of water changes but stopped and now I just buy it. I haven't used tap in 4 months.

I also would assume that I am not due for new lights considering they were on for the first time only in Feb. They are not even a year old. I thought they got replaced every year. If I am mistaken please let me know. I think these are the lights I have: 48 watt compact fluorescent: 24 watt 10,000K lamp, 24watt actinic 03 light and then the moon LED lights.

Should I upgrade these lights and if so to what? Would that help? I only want to improve the tank. I did buy a maxijet 900 to replace the stock pump. I thought that was supposed to help with the nuisence algae too.

Tonight I will scrub two of the rocks and see how it goes. There is a crepy peanut worm in one of the rocks so I don't want to hurt him. I also would like to try the sea hare again but I don't want to kill it. What did you do with yours FATDADDY to make him happy?

Thanks again for the help!

fatdaddy · 08/23/2007, 11:00 AM

Re: Sea Hare - Just acclimated him and threw him in. He was very happy to find hair algae to munch on and annihilated it within two weeks. He's currently surviving on glass scum, but I'll need to cure some rock soon. Unfortunately, I don't know of anybody that does reefing locally to find him greener pastures.

fatdaddy · 08/23/2007, 11:02 AM

Oh, the seahare from the LFS was most likely starving when you got him. They are difficult to keep long term will even starve when food is available.

I've had mine for 3 months, and he still seems healthy and happy.

smartang22 · 08/23/2007, 11:08 AM

Maybe I will skip the sea hare. I don't want to have him starve in my tank. I would feel pretty bad to have another one die. They are kind of cute in a weird way. But for the time he was there he ate all the algae off of an end of a rock. He would have been great to have around! RIP

fatdaddy · 08/23/2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by smartang22
They are kind of cute in a weird way.

I know exactly what you mean.

Are you doing kalkwasser? Don't spend $$ at the LFS. This stuff works even better:

http://www.canningpantry.com/pickling-lime.html

Walmart is currently carrying it during the canning season. I already stocked up.

Mix it with RO/DI water, let it settle, and then drip it in with a knot in airline tubing while siphoning from your mixing container. A couple of tablespoons goes a long way. It has a high PH and you don't want to shock your system with too much. Adding it at night is probably best. You should probably get a drip gate or a dosing pump for long term.

yakfishin · 08/23/2007, 11:45 AM

The various algae eating organisms may help you keep the algae short, but they aren't going to prevent it from growing. The clean up crews eat the algae and except for what is added to their body mass the nutrients pretty much just get recycled back into the aquarium. You need to manage the production of your nutrients- nitrates and phosphates and find a way of exporting the nutrients out of the system. I think in a new system, even when using pre-cured live rock, the live rock goes through a phase of releasing nutrients- from detrius within the rock and organisms constantly dieing off from on and within the rock, and so it takes awhile to get a handle on the nutrients. Your system is small enough that if you can just change 1 gallon of saltwater a day, then by the end of the week you would have replaced 50% of the water. For right now, if your system is less than 4-6 months old, I think your just going through what almost every new system goes through, perhaps just a bit worse, and with time you will find less and less algae growing.

weaver1429 · 08/23/2007, 12:18 PM

I rid of mine by adding more flow in the tank with a powerhead. Worked great.

smartang22 · 08/23/2007, 12:43 PM

I can't thank everyone enough for the great suggestions. I am going to definately do another water change tonight along with a good scrubbing. Then I am going to research the calcium issue. I might put the extra power head in my tank again. I had minijet in there but the suction cups stopped sucking and there was a mess. I might buy the magnetic holder but I am not sure if that will fit a minijet (600 I think). Anyone know if that will fit?

If this extra work doesn't help then I think I will chalk it up to the fact that my tank is still in the "new" stage. I have seen other people's tanks that are less than a year old and look amazing. I get frustrated and a bit jealous that their tanks look like that and mine looks like a prairie.

Wish me luck!! HAHAHAHA!!!

lorawalters13 · 08/23/2007, 02:25 PM

I would suggest rinsing any frozen food you feed with RO before you feed it to rid it of excess phosphates. Good luck!

nmywrx · 08/26/2007, 07:42 AM

smartang22,

I am going through the exact same problem as you with an AP24 that has been up and running since April. I have tried all the recommendations, but the hair algae still grows. Don't be disappointed if you try scrubbing and it doesn't work. I have tried multiple times to scrub my rocks with a toothbrush, but the roots of the hair algae are deep the the crevasses. The brush may not get them all, and the bloom will come right back. I not saying don't try it. It's worth a shot, but it didn't work for me.

Good luck. Let us know if you have any success.

08/23/2007, 08:05 AM	#1
smartang22 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portage, IN Posts: 191	I need a hair cut. I am so tired of hair algae. I have tried all of the normal suggestions: 1. Cut back on feeding 2. Cut back on lighting time 3. Pull it out by hand 4. Add Chaeto 5. Use Chemipure and Purigen 6. Pull it out by hand 7. Pull it out by hand Well, it is still running rampant and I am very frustrated. I feed once a day with Cyclopeeze or mysis to a clown, yellow watchman goby, and two cleaner shrimp. I also add one drop every other day of phytoplankton for the zoas and other polyps. I do a two -three gallon water change every week. (BTW I have a 14 gallon BioCube). I test my parameters and they are at 0 (amm., trates, trites) phosphate is almost at zero (the next level up). The tank has been up since Feb. I waited about 5 weeks before adding a clean up crew and then another 2 weeks to add the shrimp and then added the clown followed by the goby. What can I do? Am I fighting a losing battle? Should I take the rock out and do a major scrubbing? I tried that before and it came back. But should I do it again anyway? Please help!

08/23/2007, 08:27 AM	#3
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	You need some snails, for one thing, and scarlet hermits. Definitely you have phosphate and nitrate fueling this growth. A nano is just hard to manage in this regard, because everything that eats the stuff is too big for you. But try a purple pincushion urchin...a pita because he shoves rock, but he'll get that phosphate into solution from his poo, and then phosban can uptake it. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/23/2007, 08:29 AM	#4
fatdaddy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northeast Florida Posts: 1,191	Where is your Ca+ at? I started dosing with kalkwasser and it made a big difference after awhile. It seems where the coraline starts to grow, the hair algae has a very difficult time regaining a hold. Also, the Ca+ will interact with phosphate to keep these levels low. I used a stiff bottle brush to scrub the rocks off. The ditritus builds up under the algae and provides nutrients. You're tank can measure zero on both nitrates and phosphates and you can still have healthy hair algae growing. Use some sort of filter material to collect the hair algae so it doesn't just add to the bio load. Also, I'd recommend giant turbos and a sea hare. The sea hare isn't the cute lettuce variety, but the big ugly kind. They will go after the hair algae. You go from a problem tank to a starving sea hare in weeks, so have a backup plan on how to feed this little guy. I've never seen mine eat Nori, but I have a second tank that is so far much dirtier then the first. __________________ "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -- Aristotle

08/23/2007, 08:47 AM	#5
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	are you using tap water? __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

08/23/2007, 08:57 AM	#6
MalHavoc Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 10,850	Here's the thing about water tests. You're testing the nitrate and phosphate levels in the water. If you've got rampant algae growth, there might not be much in the water on a steady state basis because it's being consumed by the algae growth. How old is the tank? I'm surprised that more people don't just expect algae problems early on, when a new tank is set up. when I set up my 180, there was a period of a few months where I didn't even want to look at it, it was so bad. But, my detrivore and herbivore eaters ate a lot of algae, kalkwasser dosing helped, and things sorted themselves out. New liverock can leach quite a bit of phosphate into water. I'll see if I can dig up some references for that. __________________ Jason "Empathy, he once had decided, must be limited to herbivores or anyhow omnivores who could depart from a meat diet. Because, ultimately, the empathic gift blurred the boundaries between hunter and victim, between the successful and the defeated." -- Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, Philip K Dick

08/23/2007, 08:07 AM	#2
SaltyDr Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Southwest Florida Posts: 1,191	My guess is that your phosphates are a major contributor. Although they are registering low, there is a buch tied up in the algae. Can you run some phosban or the like?

08/23/2007, 09:15 AM	#7
MalHavoc Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 10,850	Might be also worth mentioning that cheap grades of carbon can leach considerable amounts of phosphate into your water, because they are made with a process that involves washing with phosphoric acid. __________________ Jason "Empathy, he once had decided, must be limited to herbivores or anyhow omnivores who could depart from a meat diet. Because, ultimately, the empathic gift blurred the boundaries between hunter and victim, between the successful and the defeated." -- Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, Philip K Dick

08/23/2007, 09:16 AM	#8
smartang22 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portage, IN Posts: 191	My tank has been up since Feb. Again I took my time adding things to it but the hair algae just took hold and kept going. I knew what to expect and I did get the diatom bloom, and cyano, and I just can't control the hair alage. I have not added any new live rock since March. I do have hermits but they have blue legs. I have about 10 of those. I had snails, but they fell off the glass and died. I have one that digs under the sand but I never see him. I thought urchins get too big for such a small tank. Also, I tried a sea hair but he died the next day. I even spent like 3 hours acclimating him. The water tested fine back then too. And I was thinking about getting more snails. So maybe that will be a purchase in the near future. It is really hard to find snails at the LFS around me. I think I am going to try and pull the rocks out and give them a good scrubbing. And pointers for that? I was going to scrub them in a bucket of saltwater and then after I am done rinse them with clean saltwater. Does that sound like a good way to do that? I am also going to look into the Ca+ issue and phosban as well. Those are two things I did not think of before. But I do have coraline growth that seems to be increasing each week. I like it too! But I have been scraping it off of the glass. I also had a feeling that I wasn't registering much phosphates because it was getting eaten up by the algae (both hair and macro). I also know I need to get to the root of the problem and I need to focus on what that might be. If I am doing things correctly then this really is just a matter of waiting it out. Again, it is just so frustrating. Thanks so much for the comments and suggestions. This is reinforcing the knowledge I have already gained as well as being able to add to it. THANKS!!!!!

08/23/2007, 09:20 AM	#9
smartang22 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portage, IN Posts: 191	I don't have carbon BTW. I just have chemipure elite and purigen. I thought those would help the nitrate/nitrites stay under control and keep the phosphates down. I keep them in the back middle chamber. Should I do anything special with them other than rinsing them every few water changes? Oh, I also use filter floss which I change every few days. I sits on the top of the middle chamber.

08/23/2007, 09:24 AM	#10
spoiledcats Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lehigh Valley Posts: 622	Are you buying water, or do you have an RO unit? __________________ Robin

08/23/2007, 09:29 AM	#11
fatdaddy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northeast Florida Posts: 1,191	I'd scrub some of the rocks during water changes. I used the old water to scrub with and then added them back to the tank. All was well. Poor the waste water out slow and check the bottom of the bucket. I'd find hermits and snails that somehow hitchhiked off the rocks and I scrubbed off. I know it's frustrating, but my tank cycled after I upgraded lights and the hair algae disappeared right on schedule 6 months later. My sea hare (aka "Sammy the Sea Slug") is doing fine. Sorry that yours died. I got mine from here: http://stores.ebay.com/id=60142061&s...TRK:MEFS:MESST but he's currently out of them. __________________ "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -- Aristotle

08/23/2007, 10:29 AM	#12
smartang22 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portage, IN Posts: 191	I am buying water. I try to buy DI/RO water but sometimes it is just DI or just RO. I used to use tap water for about 2 months worth of water changes but stopped and now I just buy it. I haven't used tap in 4 months. I also would assume that I am not due for new lights considering they were on for the first time only in Feb. They are not even a year old. I thought they got replaced every year. If I am mistaken please let me know. I think these are the lights I have: 48 watt compact fluorescent: 24 watt 10,000K lamp, 24watt actinic 03 light and then the moon LED lights. Should I upgrade these lights and if so to what? Would that help? I only want to improve the tank. I did buy a maxijet 900 to replace the stock pump. I thought that was supposed to help with the nuisence algae too. Tonight I will scrub two of the rocks and see how it goes. There is a crepy peanut worm in one of the rocks so I don't want to hurt him. I also would like to try the sea hare again but I don't want to kill it. What did you do with yours FATDADDY to make him happy? Thanks again for the help!

08/23/2007, 11:00 AM	#13
fatdaddy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northeast Florida Posts: 1,191	Re: Sea Hare - Just acclimated him and threw him in. He was very happy to find hair algae to munch on and annihilated it within two weeks. He's currently surviving on glass scum, but I'll need to cure some rock soon. Unfortunately, I don't know of anybody that does reefing locally to find him greener pastures. __________________ "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -- Aristotle

08/23/2007, 11:02 AM	#14
fatdaddy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northeast Florida Posts: 1,191	Oh, the seahare from the LFS was most likely starving when you got him. They are difficult to keep long term will even starve when food is available. I've had mine for 3 months, and he still seems healthy and happy. __________________ "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." -- Aristotle

08/23/2007, 11:08 AM	#15
smartang22 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portage, IN Posts: 191	Maybe I will skip the sea hare. I don't want to have him starve in my tank. I would feel pretty bad to have another one die. They are kind of cute in a weird way. But for the time he was there he ate all the algae off of an end of a rock. He would have been great to have around! RIP

08/23/2007, 11:45 AM	#17
yakfishin Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 696	The various algae eating organisms may help you keep the algae short, but they aren't going to prevent it from growing. The clean up crews eat the algae and except for what is added to their body mass the nutrients pretty much just get recycled back into the aquarium. You need to manage the production of your nutrients- nitrates and phosphates and find a way of exporting the nutrients out of the system. I think in a new system, even when using pre-cured live rock, the live rock goes through a phase of releasing nutrients- from detrius within the rock and organisms constantly dieing off from on and within the rock, and so it takes awhile to get a handle on the nutrients. Your system is small enough that if you can just change 1 gallon of saltwater a day, then by the end of the week you would have replaced 50% of the water. For right now, if your system is less than 4-6 months old, I think your just going through what almost every new system goes through, perhaps just a bit worse, and with time you will find less and less algae growing.

08/23/2007, 12:18 PM	#18
weaver1429 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 56	I rid of mine by adding more flow in the tank with a powerhead. Worked great.

08/23/2007, 12:43 PM	#19
smartang22 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portage, IN Posts: 191	I can't thank everyone enough for the great suggestions. I am going to definately do another water change tonight along with a good scrubbing. Then I am going to research the calcium issue. I might put the extra power head in my tank again. I had minijet in there but the suction cups stopped sucking and there was a mess. I might buy the magnetic holder but I am not sure if that will fit a minijet (600 I think). Anyone know if that will fit? If this extra work doesn't help then I think I will chalk it up to the fact that my tank is still in the "new" stage. I have seen other people's tanks that are less than a year old and look amazing. I get frustrated and a bit jealous that their tanks look like that and mine looks like a prairie. Wish me luck!! HAHAHAHA!!!

08/23/2007, 02:25 PM	#20
lorawalters13 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: west Tennessee Posts: 399	I would suggest rinsing any frozen food you feed with RO before you feed it to rid it of excess phosphates. Good luck!

08/26/2007, 07:42 AM	#21
nmywrx Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hermitage, PA Posts: 109	smartang22, I am going through the exact same problem as you with an AP24 that has been up and running since April. I have tried all the recommendations, but the hair algae still grows. Don't be disappointed if you try scrubbing and it doesn't work. I have tried multiple times to scrub my rocks with a toothbrush, but the roots of the hair algae are deep the the crevasses. The brush may not get them all, and the bloom will come right back. I not saying don't try it. It's worth a shot, but it didn't work for me. Good luck. Let us know if you have any success.