'the cost of 24/7 business"

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
A while back I made a thread called 'why do we assume a large return pump is needed?'. A few others and myself covered this topic.

You can...

Use stream style pumps for flow. Or at least high-flow, low pressure pumps in closed loops, powerheads, etc. Running most of your flow through your sump is very inefficient.

Use a smaller overflow return pump (I use an eheim 1250 on my 125g).

Use efficient lighting (light rails, esp for frag tanks, but for main tanks too). Use the 'power combo' of halides that are 10,000Kish for maximum output, and T5s to suppliment the blue. Use top-notch reflectors like lumenarcs for the best light coverage.

Use efficient skimmer pumps... needlewheels rather than becketts and downdrafts.

My 125g costs me less than $30 a month in electricity. What ratio is your tank at?

whow--that thread was quite a read. Here is the link for anyone else who is interested:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...d&pagenumber=1

Another misconception--but I am confused. Up to this point every time tank turn over has been mentioned it seems like experienced reefers feel that 20- 40 times per hour is desireable for lps and much greater for sps.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Capn, they are talking about overall turnover, not just through the sump. Most people reccomend 3-5x or up to 10x flow through the sump. I have about 15 I believe. Most of my circulation is from two tunze streams though.

[DrBegalke]

I agree with what LoJ said.

The flow recommendations are for total flow, not flow thru the sump.

If you cut that 1600/1800 gph down to say 500, then added a couple of Koralia 4's (8.5w each)... you'd cut down that 350w significantly, reduce the flow thru the sump by 1300 or so, but gain 2400 gph for just 17w of power.

[Frick-n-Frags]

This is a great thing to think about: give what is needed and know when there is too much which becomes a waste.

I agree with several things already mentioned:

1) your main return pump should be the underkill and get a unit that matches what you want. chaeto fuges and main displays should have PH/CL's to further move the water around

2) reduce head. a 2' head takes less energy than a 10' head

3) light vs corals vs algae i run actinics all day and massive MH for about 5 hrs. this seems to make the coral happy and I am still dialling it for least algae encouragement. electricity isn't bad for 1 IC660X14hrs + 2X250WMHX5hrs

4) undersize your heaters and use several. it was mentioned already about redundancy. also, if you get a "heaters-gone-wild" episode, it is much harder for an undrpowered heater to cook your tank

ps I have also noticed that with only 5 hrs of very intense MH (intense = 10kK SE 6" off the water with a close reflector +10kK DE about 10" off water) the coralline isn't getting burnt off the tank walls like it used to in my 10 hrs of Iwasaki days.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by DrBegalke
I agree with what LoJ said.

The flow recommendations are for total flow, not flow thru the sump.

If you cut that 1600/1800 gph down to say 500, then added a couple of Koralia 4's (8.5w each)... you'd cut down that 350w significantly, reduce the flow thru the sump by 1300 or so, but gain 2400 gph for just 17w of power.

thanks DrB and LOJ---another misconception brought out---I am sure I am not the only one with this misconception either.

re Koralia's ---I have a 1,2, 4 in their now-- to create zones of flow for corals etc--do you think it could handle upgrading the ones and two to 4's ?

[JNye]

you could prolly ditch the skimmer with no noticible effects.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Originally posted by poo-tang
you could prolly ditch the skimmer with no noticible effects.

This is a very generalized statement, and for the most part is wrong.

Some tanks run skimmerless, but they have to be setup that way. A tank that is equipped to process nutrients with a deep sand bed and a refugium will do much better without a skimmer than a barebottom tank. On the flip side, if you have good flow and a beastly skimmer, you can "ditch" the refugium and deep sand bed "with no noticible effects."

[JNye]

it just looks like with his setup...180 plus gallons...fuge with sandbed, and macro...not to mention what looks like an undersized ineffcient skimmer...HE could prolly just ditch it with no problem, not everyone. this would be even more true if he was housing more than a few softies.
just my opinion

[pledosophy]

Running the flow accelerators on your return pump and closed loop returns will increase your flow dramatically, by "up to 400%". Then you can use smaller pumps for CL's and returns.

The flow accelerators are about $25 a piece.

JME

[yellowwatchmen]

oops didnt mean to post.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
This is a very generalized statement, and for the most part is wrong.

Some tanks run skimmerless, but they have to be setup that way. A tank that is equipped to process nutrients with a deep sand bed and a refugium will do much better without a skimmer than a barebottom tank. On the flip side, if you have good flow and a beastly skimmer, you can "ditch" the refugium and deep sand bed "with no noticible effects."

actually I am trying to work around an average skimmer and flow rate through it----this is the way the tank came---had I not been so green I would have never accepted it)
The other big mistake was not having it drilled for a closed loop.

I added the refugium for producing more copopods etc for the tank, got rid of everything in that trickle filter, added a micron sock and live rock to the sump.
The trickle filter baffles the water enough to slow it down over the live rock
I have been experimenting with removing the filter sock and only running the skimmer--but twice now I have had to take it apart because the air venturi and base of the skimmer has become plugged with inverts---LOL
I would like to place a mud refug as the initial filtration and get rid of the sock entirely.
I guess that would allow me to substitute the mag3600 for a more effecient wattage/gph like some of the pumps suggested.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by pledosophy
Running the flow accelerators on your return pump and closed loop returns will increase your flow dramatically, by "up to 400%". Then you can use smaller pumps for CL's and returns.

The flow accelerators are about $25 a piece.

JME

interesting idea
do you have a link or more info on flow accelerators.

[Aquarist007]

I have the original pump that the mag3600 replaced:
http://www.coralreefsupply.com/index...ail&detail=130

I was going to create an external closed loop with it--but have hesitated due to safety considerations with that kind of set up.

Does any one have the head pressure specs on this pump--its not listed in the RC calculator?