Help me figure this out please... connecting tanks

NanoGurl · 12/10/2007, 07:31 PM

Okay, I've asked before but never really "got it."

I want to have a main display tank... it would have two overflows... from there I want to run that into a 100g rubbermaid sump... and from there to a 40g "prop tank" and then back to the main DT.

My questions... I can't quite understand how you would make that work... drilling bulkhead holes... pumps... things like that. I kinda get the idea, but I can't get the actual process.

Help please!

plummike · 12/10/2007, 07:39 PM

why not two seperate systems? They could share the sump but no need to connect DT and PT

REEF-n-Chicago · 12/10/2007, 07:40 PM

tagging along!

Frick-n-Frags · 12/10/2007, 07:41 PM

OK, here's the conceptual discontinuity:
Your sump is the bottom of the system. the pump in the bottom pumps water up to the tank on top and it overflows back down.

pretend you have 2 tanks that you are feeding from one sump, but your pump down in the sump has a branch in the return pipe.

The branching pipe goes to both tanks(one branch per tank), so that the pump is pumping water up into each tank. then each tank has its own overflow and drain back to the sump. this keeps it simple, and each tank is isolated, so you could turn the valve to the prop tank off for cleaning while the main tank kept flowing etc or turn the main tank off, but leave the frag, or add a fuge later on just like tank #3.
putting a valve on each branch lets you stop or regulate the water volume to each tank separately.

If you kept adding branches to the return plumbing, you could put lots of tanks on that one sump: one tank per return branch
HTH

NanoGurl · 12/10/2007, 07:41 PM

That's an interesting thought and it just gave me a headache!

NanoGurl · 12/10/2007, 07:44 PM

Okay... so two tanks drain into the "combined sump." Lets say the return in the sump breaks off too both tanks. How does the water level remain constant in both tanks? If I cut the valve off to one tank... would that raise the water level in the other tank? Or just make the flow faster through that tank until the other was turned back on?

m2434 · 12/10/2007, 07:45 PM

Overflow in the DT, overflow in the PT and a return pump in the sump. Just keep the DT above the PT and the PT above the sump and your good to go.

Frick-n-Frags · 12/10/2007, 07:46 PM

You are on your own sister. heh. and may god have mercy on your shoal

NanoGurl · 12/10/2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m2434
Overflow in the DT, overflow in the PT and a return pump in the sump. Just keep the DT above the PT and the PT above the sump and your good to go.

Does it matter how much higher?

NanoGurl · 12/10/2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Frick-n-Frags
You are on your own sister. heh. and may god have mercy on your shoal

I'm lost :P

m2434 · 12/10/2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NanoGurl
Does it matter how much higher?

No, not really, but should give yourself some leeway - I'd think 5-6 inches should be fine. Just make sure the tube diameter is large enough for all the water to go through.

You might try this calculator
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php

navajo · 12/10/2007, 09:19 PM

Just tell ClownX to get off his duff and make it work!

Seriously, though, it's not too hard. Just imagine your tanks in a stair step pattern. Pump the lowest tank (prop tank) to the highest tank (display) and plumb your pipes accordingly. Unless I'm missing something here.

navajo · 12/10/2007, 09:25 PM

Unless I am missing what you're trying to do, this should work (please excuse the rough drawing...)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...TANKDESIGN.jpg

vito is hooked · 12/10/2007, 10:18 PM

Ramen Noodles RULE.......!

navajo · 12/10/2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vito is hooked
Ramen Noodles RULE.......!

Ever chopped up hot dogs in them and melted cheese? Makes them a bit more "hardy"!

ksouers · 12/10/2007, 10:22 PM

NanoGurl,
Just imagine how you would plumb the tanks if they were separate systems and each had their own sump and own return pump.

Now, imagine combining the two sumps into one. One return pump feeding the display and one pump feeding the prop and each tank having it's own overflow going to the one sump.

Now it should be a simple step to imagine one return pump with a "T" on the output to feed each tank. You could have a valve on each leg of the "T" to control the return feed to each tank.

Your prop tank overflow should not go to the display tank, it should go to the sump.

This way it does not matter what height each tank is to the other as they are separate tanks with a common sump.

sfilingeri · 12/10/2007, 10:27 PM

Does this Help? Question is, where is that 40 gallon going to be located? On the side of your Display? behind it? or under?

NanoGurl · 12/11/2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by navajo
Just tell ClownX to get off his duff and make it work!

lol... that's so funny! =) I know right...

Hey! How are the koi doing? I want to come see them! When are you coming over again? My dog misses your kids!

NanoGurl · 12/11/2007, 04:18 PM

Thanks everyone for the help and diagrams! I think I understand it now.

I like the idea of the combined sump so I don't have to drill anything or worry about the height. That way the tanks could be farther away too.

So, the next question.. if I use the 100g Rubbermaid for the sump... how would I combine the tanks into them? Would I put both return pipes into the same section in the sump? How would I partition the sump for bubble traps? Could I make a fuge section in it?

Thanks again everyone!

NanoGurl · 12/11/2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sfilingeri

Does this Help? Question is, where is that 40 gallon going to be located? On the side of your Display? behind it? or under?

Thanks! I don't know... I am thinking they would be at least 5' apart to the side... kinda like an L shape.

NanoGurl · 12/11/2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ksouers
NanoGurl,
Just imagine how you would plumb the tanks if they were separate systems and each had their own sump and own return pump.

Now, imagine combining the two sumps into one. One return pump feeding the display and one pump feeding the prop and each tank having it's own overflow going to the one sump.

Now it should be a simple step to imagine one return pump with a "T" on the output to feed each tank. You could have a valve on each leg of the "T" to control the return feed to each tank.

Your prop tank overflow should not go to the display tank, it should go to the sump.

This way it does not matter what height each tank is to the other as they are separate tanks with a common sump.

That helps, thanks! I like this idea better so I don't have to worry about the height of anything.

NanoGurl · 12/11/2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by m2434
No, not really, but should give yourself some leeway - I'd think 5-6 inches should be fine. Just make sure the tube diameter is large enough for all the water to go through.

You might try this calculator
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php

Thanks!

david pinder · 12/11/2007, 06:00 PM

I have the system your looking for. MY 600 gal water level is about 4 inches higher than my 200 gal system I have three drain line going to my sump and one going to the 200, remeber the return lines from 200 going to sump must be able to carry more water back than the line coming in can carry into the 200. My sump is large enough that if I loose electricity the water flows to the sump and not onto the floor. then all water is pumped back from sump into the 600

navajo · 12/11/2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NanoGurl
lol... that's so funny! =) I know right...

Hey! How are the koi doing? I want to come see them! When are you coming over again? My dog misses your kids!

Yeah, tell him he's slackin'!

The koi are HUGE! Thanks again. They are pretty much bedded down for the winter. We pulled all the plants Thanksgiving weekend. But you are more than welcome to come over any time! Bring the pooch too! My son still askes about him.

Take care,

NanoGurl · 12/13/2007, 11:47 AM

lol =)

I would love to come by maybe during summer so I could feed them =) Sebastian would love a road trip!

12/10/2007, 07:31 PM	#1
NanoGurl Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 4,306	Help me figure this out please... connecting tanks Okay, I've asked before but never really "got it." I want to have a main display tank... it would have two overflows... from there I want to run that into a 100g rubbermaid sump... and from there to a 40g "prop tank" and then back to the main DT. My questions... I can't quite understand how you would make that work... drilling bulkhead holes... pumps... things like that. I kinda get the idea, but I can't get the actual process. Help please!

12/10/2007, 07:41 PM	#4
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	OK, here's the conceptual discontinuity: Your sump is the bottom of the system. the pump in the bottom pumps water up to the tank on top and it overflows back down. pretend you have 2 tanks that you are feeding from one sump, but your pump down in the sump has a branch in the return pipe. The branching pipe goes to both tanks(one branch per tank), so that the pump is pumping water up into each tank. then each tank has its own overflow and drain back to the sump. this keeps it simple, and each tank is isolated, so you could turn the valve to the prop tank off for cleaning while the main tank kept flowing etc or turn the main tank off, but leave the frag, or add a fuge later on just like tank #3. putting a valve on each branch lets you stop or regulate the water volume to each tank separately. If you kept adding branches to the return plumbing, you could put lots of tanks on that one sump: one tank per return branch HTH __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/10/2007, 07:45 PM	#7
m2434 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,171	Overflow in the DT, overflow in the PT and a return pump in the sump. Just keep the DT above the PT and the PT above the sump and your good to go. __________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. ~Richard Feynman

12/10/2007, 07:46 PM	#8
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	You are on your own sister. heh. and may god have mercy on your shoal __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/10/2007, 09:19 PM	#12
navajo Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 644	Just tell ClownX to get off his duff and make it work! Seriously, though, it's not too hard. Just imagine your tanks in a stair step pattern. Pump the lowest tank (prop tank) to the highest tank (display) and plumb your pipes accordingly. Unless I'm missing something here. __________________ Tom (The Tool Man) "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to KEEP fish and his family will soon be eating Ramen Noodles..." Current Tank Info: 210 GAL SW/ 55 GAL Heavily planted FW/ 3000 GAL KOI Pond/

12/10/2007, 07:39 PM	#2
plummike Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: near Pittsburgh Posts: 271	why not two seperate systems? They could share the sump but no need to connect DT and PT

12/10/2007, 07:40 PM	#3
REEF-n-Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA (san pedro) Posts: 1,456	tagging along! __________________ Jordan My tank gets DRUNK every morning Current Tank Info: 150 Gallon w/ 100 gallon sump; 240 gallon

12/10/2007, 07:44 PM	#6
NanoGurl Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 4,306	Okay... so two tanks drain into the "combined sump." Lets say the return in the sump breaks off too both tanks. How does the water level remain constant in both tanks? If I cut the valve off to one tank... would that raise the water level in the other tank? Or just make the flow faster through that tank until the other was turned back on?

12/10/2007, 09:25 PM	#13
navajo Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northern VA Posts: 644	Unless I am missing what you're trying to do, this should work (please excuse the rough drawing...) http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...TANKDESIGN.jpg __________________ Tom (The Tool Man) "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to KEEP fish and his family will soon be eating Ramen Noodles..." Current Tank Info: 210 GAL SW/ 55 GAL Heavily planted FW/ 3000 GAL KOI Pond/

12/10/2007, 10:18 PM	#14
vito is hooked Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Port Charlotte FL Posts: 845	Ramen Noodles RULE.......! __________________ IT'S THE SAME THING-ONLY DIFFERENT Current Tank Info: 300gal with 180gal Ref/Sump M/H lighting 2-175 watt 10.000 K 3 150watt 15.000 K 8 blue actinics 4 Purple OCTOPUS Extreme-X200 Skimmer Max Flow 4200gph Return

12/10/2007, 10:22 PM	#16
ksouers Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: St Louis, MO Posts: 153	NanoGurl, Just imagine how you would plumb the tanks if they were separate systems and each had their own sump and own return pump. Now, imagine combining the two sumps into one. One return pump feeding the display and one pump feeding the prop and each tank having it's own overflow going to the one sump. Now it should be a simple step to imagine one return pump with a "T" on the output to feed each tank. You could have a valve on each leg of the "T" to control the return feed to each tank. Your prop tank overflow should not go to the display tank, it should go to the sump. This way it does not matter what height each tank is to the other as they are separate tanks with a common sump. __________________ Kevin Current Tank Info: 125 mixed reef, 20g sump, GEO 612 Ca reactor, AC Jr., 1x150w, 2x250w mh

12/10/2007, 10:27 PM	#17
sfilingeri Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Richmond,Virginia Posts: 171	Does this Help? Question is, where is that 40 gallon going to be located? On the side of your Display? behind it? or under?

12/11/2007, 04:18 PM	#19
NanoGurl Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 4,306	Thanks everyone for the help and diagrams! I think I understand it now. I like the idea of the combined sump so I don't have to drill anything or worry about the height. That way the tanks could be farther away too. So, the next question.. if I use the 100g Rubbermaid for the sump... how would I combine the tanks into them? Would I put both return pipes into the same section in the sump? How would I partition the sump for bubble traps? Could I make a fuge section in it? Thanks again everyone!

12/11/2007, 06:00 PM	#23
david pinder Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: houston tx 77316 Posts: 538	I have the system your looking for. MY 600 gal water level is about 4 inches higher than my 200 gal system I have three drain line going to my sump and one going to the 200, remeber the return lines from 200 going to sump must be able to carry more water back than the line coming in can carry into the 200. My sump is large enough that if I loose electricity the water flows to the sump and not onto the floor. then all water is pumped back from sump into the 600

12/13/2007, 11:47 AM	#25
NanoGurl Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 4,306	lol =) I would love to come by maybe during summer so I could feed them =) Sebastian would love a road trip!