New Lumen Bright Reflector. ... any info on them - Page 31

ganjero · 02/29/2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nreefer
Ok. The test that was done a few pages back with the 36" wide frag tank. Were both the LA and LB hung at the same height?

On all the post with PAR mesurements they have what type of reflector and the distance.

If its the frag tank the one that you are referring to, yes the measurements were at the same distance.

Nickde123 · 02/29/2008, 03:36 PM

I think alot of you guy's dont realize something. Ill use my tank for instance. It's 4'x3'x2. When I do my aquascaping I will NOT need a full 36" coverage for my MH's since my sps will be on the aquascaping NOT the bottom front of the tank. I will have other corals other then SPS, BUT you can grow them out with much less lighting then MH so what is the need to worry PAR reading right in the very front since there is NO ONE I have ever seen that had there rockwork right up against the front of the tank. Think abou it. Do you need that. NOW sa you have your rockwork built where the back of the tank has your rock on it like rockwall. Mount your reflectors more in the back then in the middle. Do you need to have all that intensity on areas that dont need it ? As long as it is lit up. Hey this is JMHO

Marcello Salles · 02/29/2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JRaquatics
The left side was lower because the nipple was faced down. The other 2 were faced upward. I wanted to show how nipple orientation does make a difference.

JRquatics, i think that you are missing the answer here.

The 86 PAR that Rickyrooz1 is talking about was measured using a Blueline 10K bulb !

Everyting changes when the Reeflux 12K comes into play ... am i correct ?

KJAhp098 · 02/29/2008, 04:56 PM

Deuce67, are those T-5 supplement lights you have on there? Where did you get those from?

Deuce67 · 02/29/2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KJAhp098
Deuce67, are those T-5 supplement lights you have on there? Where did you get those from?

Yes they are T5s. Not the best T5 setup but great for dusk and dawn effect. They are cheap Helios T5HO III. 35 bucks with lamps. Plug and play. Got them at dtpetsupplies dot com

grandp10 · 02/29/2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nreefer
I wonder if you were to do par tests on the LB's at the recommended hieght and then LA's at the recommended height if the LB's would still come out on top?
You have to have the LB's so much higher off the water and that extra height will decrease the PAR in the tank, correct?

I did a par test on a 120 gal. 48"l,24"w, and 24"h. I had 1 mini Lumenarc w/ 400 watt Refflux 12k w/ bulb 8" off water surface. It tested about 1350 about .5" off the water surface. I had also a Lumenbright on the other side of the tank w/ same bulb and bulb being 14.5" off water surface. The LB tested about 1325 about .5" off water surface. The par value on both under water decreased very similarly, with LB loosing a little less par. Once I got about 12" under water the LB was anywhere from about 50-100 par more. I believe at about 20" depth the LB got even better par ratio wise compared to the LA (meaning that at that depth the LA had even less percentage of par compared to how the two reflectors compared at the 12"

grandp10 · 02/29/2008, 08:51 PM

Also to add, the LA above the water was better par all over. Like I said though when you get a couple of inches under water the LB penetrates better and continues to spread more while keeping pretty good par, while the LA does not necessarliy penetrate that well and keeps trying to spread. I was quick to judge when I compared these reflectors by measurements above water. Then after concluding the underwater testing I think the LB is a clear winner.

grandp10 · 02/29/2008, 09:02 PM

Just went back to Mike's (acropora nut) par reading on his LB's. I am not sure why his readings were so much more than mine. does anyone know if he was runnign bulbs nipple up or down. I noticed running nipples down I generally get 20 % more par. Plus I was running a different ballast, EVC electronic.

JRaquatics · 02/29/2008, 10:18 PM

He runs his nipple up. If you run the bulbs nipple down you will have more par dead center but if you run nipple up the par # will be at a wider range. This helps rid the dreaded hot spot. The 12k reeflux bulbs also look more crisp and less blue nipple up. IMO

grandp10 · 02/29/2008, 10:45 PM

Thanks, JR you are a very valuable person to have on this thread between your experience with the reflectors and very quick response time. I may some time do another test between the nipple orientation, but (not trying to argue) I highly value your opinion. I believe when I did the test with the nipple down it gave more par in all areas, but everyone has their own opinion and experiences. Again thank you very much for the quick reply and info. Do you also think his ballast may make a difference? Was he running a dimmable ballast and slightly overdriving?

grandp10 · 02/29/2008, 10:54 PM

Also JR, I had 2 10k Reeflux 250 watt side by side in LB's, one nipple up and one down. The color looked the same between the two bulbs, ran it like this for a week or so. Funny thing though when I turned the other one that was nipple up and put nipple pointing down, it changed the color of the light from a crisp white with very slight blue, to a kind of yellow 10k look. After leaving the bulb nipple down for about a week it soon went back to the same color of the other bulb being crisp white with very light blue hue. It is hard to compare my light color to yours, with yours being a photo and mine a real life look at the tank in person, but my Reeflux 10 k's look very similar in color to your setup. I like this alot because your's is near perfect color, if not perfect.

JRaquatics · 03/01/2008, 09:51 AM

Don't forget Grandp10 I am running 12ks. I do have dimmable ballast but I have them dialed at 3/4 of the way up. We found that overdriving the bulb actually gave less par. So Jim and I tested each lamp/ballast and tuned the ballast so that the highest par number read. Shocking enough they were all at about 3/4 of the way up. I still have to get a chance and place the killawatt on the ballast and see which each one is pulling.

grandp10 · 03/01/2008, 11:11 AM

That's cool, I ordered a kilowatt meter so I will test my ballasts and see what they are pulling. Thanks again for the quick replies as usual.

bubbletip2 · 03/02/2008, 10:58 AM

It is a beautiful thing to be able to tune the ballast to an optimal setting. It was easy to do with Jeremy tuning the ballasts as I read the PAR readings go up and down. You get to a point where the PAR peaks at a number and levels off for a couple turns on the knob. Then the PAR begins to drop. We set it back a turn to be in the middle of the peak level.

I have heard for many years people talk about electronic ballasts burning out bulbs to quick. Every ballast comes out of the factory different. To be able to tweak each ballast to the threshold you prevent overdriving the bulb and prolong the life of it as well. Where people claim 4-6 months on a bulb running on electric ballasts because of overdriving them, I claim 7-9 months when not overdriving an electronic.

So basically you are spending less on electric by not overdriving it and spending even less than a magnetic just due to the efficiency of an electronic ballast.

Here is a color correct version of Jeremy's tank right after we calibrated his ballasts.

Tagareef · 03/02/2008, 11:08 AM

Nice work!

Was there a significant difference between the "tuned" numbers vs. the ballast running full tilt?

bubbletip2 · 03/02/2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by grandp10
I did a par test on a 120 gal. 48"l,24"w, and 24"h. I had 1 mini Lumenarc w/ 400 watt Refflux 12k w/ bulb 8" off water surface. It tested about 1350 about .5" off the water surface. I had also a Lumenbright on the other side of the tank w/ same bulb and bulb being 14.5" off water surface. The LB tested about 1325 about .5" off water surface. The par value on both under water decreased very similarly, with LB loosing a little less par. Once I got about 12" under water the LB was anywhere from about 50-100 par more. I believe at about 20" depth the LB got even better par ratio wise compared to the LA (meaning that at that depth the LA had even less percentage of par compared to how the two reflectors compared at the 12"

It seems the LB is pretty close to the LA and 6.5" higher. Drop it down to 14" and I bet you will have a match. It is kind of nice not cooking my water, now being 17" off bulb to water as opposed to 8"-10" on a Lumenarc to get anywhere close to the readings.

LB's are for real - thanks for posting

They do as they were intended - keep the light "in" the tank with less problems we all faced for so many years having to hang our lights so low

"As soon as you break the surface of the water, the ball game changes. An efficient refelctor is a reflector that can assist the bulb in penetrating the depth of the water without having to be so close, in effect negatively impacting the system in which we are trying to grow."

For reference grandp10, Mike's ballasts were also calibrated prior to taking measurements however many months ago that was.

bubbletip2 · 03/02/2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tagareef
Nice work!

Was there a significant difference between the "tuned" numbers vs. the ballast running full tilt?

When it starts to drop it drops quick. When Jeremy says 3/4 full we were at these numbers. We got as low as 1030 on the left to 1080 on the right. So basically at full tilt you are spending more on electric and getting less output.

I guess you could measure your ballasts with a kilowatt or a lux meter, but in my opinion the optimal way to calibrate would be with an Apogee PAR meter as it would calibrate what we are all interested in, the Photo Active Radiation produced by the bulb and ballast.

fijiblue · 03/02/2008, 12:15 PM

You just let me know when you need that PAR meter back. I think I have measured everything I could think of including my car lights, a flame (kept my distance...don't worry

) and LED's.

bubbletip2 · 03/02/2008, 03:45 PM

No problem bro.

I will be by soon. I may need to do some more testing. It has been a while. I think we answered a lot of questions way back when fijjiblue. Glad to see you are extending the use of the meter. But don't you owe me and everyone here that LumenArc test with 400w 12K Reeflux on that 180?

Come on "fiji", cough it up...

JRaquatics · 03/02/2008, 03:47 PM

He rises from the dead once again.... Welcome back Jim.

bubbletip2 · 03/02/2008, 03:57 PM

Not Dead Yet

Just hibernating... It's Chicago you know...

fijiblue · 03/03/2008, 06:19 AM

You mean the 360? I am on it. I will have it done by this weekend.

Quote:

Not Dead Yet Just hibernating... It's Chicago you know

...for sure! I don't know about everyone else, but I'm ready to move.

bubbletip2 · 03/03/2008, 07:08 AM

Yeah the 360 w/ LA3's and 12K Reeflux... Cool! I will give you a call this week and come by and pick up the meter after you are done testing. Thanks fijiblue!

JRaquatics · 03/03/2008, 09:18 AM

Jim, Let's see some new shots of your tank.

LooseHip · 03/03/2008, 12:29 PM

Anyone else here who purchased the 250w DE version? I had problems seating the bulb in the socket. I was unable to get it to seat properly until I accidently broke off the ceramic tabs. Once I broke the tabs off the bulb fit and works fine. I was just curious if anyone else ran into this issue?

02/29/2008, 04:56 PM	#754
KJAhp098 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,156	Deuce67, are those T-5 supplement lights you have on there? Where did you get those from? __________________ Ken Current Tank Info: Marineland 150DD

03/02/2008, 10:58 AM	#764
bubbletip2 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 736	It is a beautiful thing to be able to tune the ballast to an optimal setting. It was easy to do with Jeremy tuning the ballasts as I read the PAR readings go up and down. You get to a point where the PAR peaks at a number and levels off for a couple turns on the knob. Then the PAR begins to drop. We set it back a turn to be in the middle of the peak level. I have heard for many years people talk about electronic ballasts burning out bulbs to quick. Every ballast comes out of the factory different. To be able to tweak each ballast to the threshold you prevent overdriving the bulb and prolong the life of it as well. Where people claim 4-6 months on a bulb running on electric ballasts because of overdriving them, I claim 7-9 months when not overdriving an electronic. So basically you are spending less on electric by not overdriving it and spending even less than a magnetic just due to the efficiency of an electronic ballast. Here is a color correct version of Jeremy's tank right after we calibrated his ballasts. __________________ 3-250W 12K Reeflux-CV Bllsts-3 Mini LB's,2 54w T5's,Advncd. ballast,2 - VTech MP40Ws,Reeflo Dart & Orca 200,Eshopps 37gsump, Ltrmtr + 1 - top off/alk-ca,RK 2 & AC JR,2 TLF Phosban Rctors,4 Orion fans Current Tank Info: 156G Oceanic SPS Dominant Reef System(L60.5 x W24.5 x H25) - 30g Cube plmbed into DT - 1 LG LB Pndt. - 250w EVC 14K(EVC Ballast) - Panworld(790gph feed)

03/02/2008, 12:15 PM	#768
fijiblue Moved On Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: unfortunately here Posts: 1,895	You just let me know when you need that PAR meter back. I think I have measured everything I could think of including my car lights, a flame (kept my distance...don't worry) and LED's.

03/02/2008, 03:45 PM	#769
bubbletip2 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 736	No problem bro. I will be by soon. I may need to do some more testing. It has been a while. I think we answered a lot of questions way back when fijjiblue. Glad to see you are extending the use of the meter. But don't you owe me and everyone here that LumenArc test with 400w 12K Reeflux on that 180? Come on "fiji", cough it up... __________________ 3-250W 12K Reeflux-CV Bllsts-3 Mini LB's,2 54w T5's,Advncd. ballast,2 - VTech MP40Ws,Reeflo Dart & Orca 200,Eshopps 37gsump, Ltrmtr + 1 - top off/alk-ca,RK 2 & AC JR,2 TLF Phosban Rctors,4 Orion fans Current Tank Info: 156G Oceanic SPS Dominant Reef System(L60.5 x W24.5 x H25) - 30g Cube plmbed into DT - 1 LG LB Pndt. - 250w EVC 14K(EVC Ballast) - Panworld(790gph feed)

03/02/2008, 03:57 PM	#771
bubbletip2 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 736	Not Dead Yet Just hibernating... It's Chicago you know... __________________ 3-250W 12K Reeflux-CV Bllsts-3 Mini LB's,2 54w T5's,Advncd. ballast,2 - VTech MP40Ws,Reeflo Dart & Orca 200,Eshopps 37gsump, Ltrmtr + 1 - top off/alk-ca,RK 2 & AC JR,2 TLF Phosban Rctors,4 Orion fans Current Tank Info: 156G Oceanic SPS Dominant Reef System(L60.5 x W24.5 x H25) - 30g Cube plmbed into DT - 1 LG LB Pndt. - 250w EVC 14K(EVC Ballast) - Panworld(790gph feed)

02/29/2008, 03:36 PM	#752
Nickde123 Moved On Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 215	I think alot of you guy's dont realize something. Ill use my tank for instance. It's 4'x3'x2. When I do my aquascaping I will NOT need a full 36" coverage for my MH's since my sps will be on the aquascaping NOT the bottom front of the tank. I will have other corals other then SPS, BUT you can grow them out with much less lighting then MH so what is the need to worry PAR reading right in the very front since there is NO ONE I have ever seen that had there rockwork right up against the front of the tank. Think abou it. Do you need that. NOW sa you have your rockwork built where the back of the tank has your rock on it like rockwall. Mount your reflectors more in the back then in the middle. Do you need to have all that intensity on areas that dont need it ? As long as it is lit up. Hey this is JMHO

02/29/2008, 08:51 PM	#757
grandp10 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 516	Also to add, the LA above the water was better par all over. Like I said though when you get a couple of inches under water the LB penetrates better and continues to spread more while keeping pretty good par, while the LA does not necessarliy penetrate that well and keeps trying to spread. I was quick to judge when I compared these reflectors by measurements above water. Then after concluding the underwater testing I think the LB is a clear winner.

02/29/2008, 09:02 PM	#758
grandp10 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 516	Just went back to Mike's (acropora nut) par reading on his LB's. I am not sure why his readings were so much more than mine. does anyone know if he was runnign bulbs nipple up or down. I noticed running nipples down I generally get 20 % more par. Plus I was running a different ballast, EVC electronic.

02/29/2008, 10:18 PM	#759
JRaquatics Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On RC Posts: 3,609	He runs his nipple up. If you run the bulbs nipple down you will have more par dead center but if you run nipple up the par # will be at a wider range. This helps rid the dreaded hot spot. The 12k reeflux bulbs also look more crisp and less blue nipple up. IMO

02/29/2008, 10:45 PM	#760
grandp10 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 516	Thanks, JR you are a very valuable person to have on this thread between your experience with the reflectors and very quick response time. I may some time do another test between the nipple orientation, but (not trying to argue) I highly value your opinion. I believe when I did the test with the nipple down it gave more par in all areas, but everyone has their own opinion and experiences. Again thank you very much for the quick reply and info. Do you also think his ballast may make a difference? Was he running a dimmable ballast and slightly overdriving?

02/29/2008, 10:54 PM	#761
grandp10 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 516	Also JR, I had 2 10k Reeflux 250 watt side by side in LB's, one nipple up and one down. The color looked the same between the two bulbs, ran it like this for a week or so. Funny thing though when I turned the other one that was nipple up and put nipple pointing down, it changed the color of the light from a crisp white with very slight blue, to a kind of yellow 10k look. After leaving the bulb nipple down for about a week it soon went back to the same color of the other bulb being crisp white with very light blue hue. It is hard to compare my light color to yours, with yours being a photo and mine a real life look at the tank in person, but my Reeflux 10 k's look very similar in color to your setup. I like this alot because your's is near perfect color, if not perfect.

03/01/2008, 09:51 AM	#762
JRaquatics Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On RC Posts: 3,609	Don't forget Grandp10 I am running 12ks. I do have dimmable ballast but I have them dialed at 3/4 of the way up. We found that overdriving the bulb actually gave less par. So Jim and I tested each lamp/ballast and tuned the ballast so that the highest par number read. Shocking enough they were all at about 3/4 of the way up. I still have to get a chance and place the killawatt on the ballast and see which each one is pulling.

03/01/2008, 11:11 AM	#763
grandp10 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 516	That's cool, I ordered a kilowatt meter so I will test my ballasts and see what they are pulling. Thanks again for the quick replies as usual.

03/02/2008, 11:08 AM	#765
Tagareef Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 904	Nice work! Was there a significant difference between the "tuned" numbers vs. the ballast running full tilt?

03/02/2008, 03:47 PM	#770
JRaquatics Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On RC Posts: 3,609	He rises from the dead once again.... Welcome back Jim.

03/03/2008, 07:08 AM	#773
bubbletip2 Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 736	Yeah the 360 w/ LA3's and 12K Reeflux... Cool! I will give you a call this week and come by and pick up the meter after you are done testing. Thanks fijiblue! __________________ 3-250W 12K Reeflux-CV Bllsts-3 Mini LB's,2 54w T5's,Advncd. ballast,2 - VTech MP40Ws,Reeflo Dart & Orca 200,Eshopps 37gsump, Ltrmtr + 1 - top off/alk-ca,RK 2 & AC JR,2 TLF Phosban Rctors,4 Orion fans Current Tank Info: 156G Oceanic SPS Dominant Reef System(L60.5 x W24.5 x H25) - 30g Cube plmbed into DT - 1 LG LB Pndt. - 250w EVC 14K(EVC Ballast) - Panworld(790gph feed)

03/03/2008, 09:18 AM	#774
JRaquatics Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: On RC Posts: 3,609	Jim, Let's see some new shots of your tank.

03/03/2008, 12:29 PM	#775
LooseHip Foaming Conehead Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: CO Posts: 1,002	Anyone else here who purchased the 250w DE version? I had problems seating the bulb in the socket. I was unable to get it to seat properly until I accidently broke off the ceramic tabs. Once I broke the tabs off the bulb fit and works fine. I was just curious if anyone else ran into this issue?