Cleaning Fuge/Chaeto?

[FBNitro]

I pulled out my Chaeto today to give it a snip (first time) and I noticed that it was covered with hair algae in some places. So I trimmed the hair algae covered spots off. I took a look in the fuge and noticed some of the walls had hair algae, so I pulled off the longer strands. Then I noticed the rocks were covered with something (detrius I assume).

Should I pull my fuge rocks out on the next water change and give them a rinse?

[tmz]

Yes, you needto export detrius regularly. It's also useful to shake off the chaeto from time to time.

[A.VOID]

Funny I see this post when I had a similar question >>>

I imagine it's a good thing to toss a couple snails in the fuge?

Throw a couple nass and a couple Astrea to keep things relatively clean?

[SWINGRRRR]

I have Cerith in mine as well. The reproduce so dang fast in the DT I have to put them somewhere. Plus they eat algae.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by FBNitro
I pulled out my Chaeto today to give it a snip (first time) and I noticed that it was covered with hair algae in some places. So I trimmed the hair algae covered spots off. I took a look in the fuge and noticed some of the walls had hair algae, so I pulled off the longer strands. Then I noticed the rocks were covered with something (detrius I assume).

Should I pull my fuge rocks out on the next water change and give them a rinse?

I am really torn on this one and I hate to disagree with one of my most respected mentors

but IMO--the fuge is suppose to collect detrius, it should have a deep sand bed and the there will probably be a dozen or so forms of macro algae in it----but isn't this its purpose
If you clean it out , take out the rock and scrub it etc etc then what you have then is a reef tank
I believe it was TMZ or on another forum that this article on sand beds was referred to.
In my interpretation--alot goes on in a sand bed we take for granted and there are numerous life cycles going on it to support our tanks.
I am wondering if once and a while we shouldn't take a cup of the sand bed from out refugiums and add it ot the main tank substrate ot ensure it has the organisms in it that the refugium sand base would

here is the article:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ture/index.php

and of course I haven't done anything yet but welcomed this post as an opportunity to further discuss it

[JCR's Reef]

I agree with capn- I pretty much leave my fuge alone. I prune back my macro algae but thats pretty much it. I have snails and hermits, and peppermint shrimp in there to take care of the other stuff, and to move the sand bed around. I let them keep the red algae at bay in there. I would rather the algae's grow in there instead of my main tank. As soon as you remove all that from the fudge, chances are it will take a foot hold in your main display. To me the whole point of a fuge is to grow all that stuff and starve the rest of the system of the nutients it needs to grow.

[FBNitro]

I don't have a sand bed in mine, just rock rubble and chaeto (HOB AC 110 converted into a Fuge). No creatures (other than hopefully pods). I see your point about not doing it. I'm interested what others think on this one...

[SWINGRRRR]

I don't clean mine. I dont touch anything in there, except for adding snails. My Chateo hasn't began to grow yet so I dont even have to clip it.

[tmz]

OK each his own. I think you need to decide what it is you want the refugium to do. If it is overladen with nutrients from detrius buildup in the sand and nuisance algae and cyanobacteria are present, then it isn't really removing niutrient from your system but is ratehr acting like an uncleaned filter catridge,trapping undissoved organic matter in the water untill they dissolve into dom and spread throughout your system. Whatever is trapped there won't go to the skimmer and won't be exported efficiently. It may actually become a source of nuisance algae for the main system as well. This may be desireable if you are keeping organisms like goniopora or other corals that like high nutrient environments but it will not be best for sps or mixed systems or for a clean look in the display.
If it's primary purpose is to grow pods, then the more nutrient the better,although adequate pods can be had in a relatively clean refugium.
I prefer a bare bottom with lot's of chaetomorpha and some red kelp. I keep the sand bed separately and an unlit bin of rubble.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by tmz
OK each his own. I think you need to decide what it is you want the refugium to do. If it is overladen with nutrients from detrius buildup in the sand and nuisance algae and cyanobacteria are present, then it isn't really removing niutrient from your system but is ratehr acting like an uncleaned filter catridge,trapping undissoved organic matter in the water untill they dissolve into dom and spread throughout your system. Whatever is trapped there won't go to the skimmer and won't be exported efficiently. It may actually become a source of nuisance algae for the main system as well. This may be desireable if you are keeping organisms like goniopora or other corals that like high nutrient environments but it will not be best for sps or mixed systems or for a clean look in the display.
If it's primary purpose is to grow pods, then the more nutrient the better,although adequate pods can be had in a relatively clean refugium.
I prefer a bare bottom with lot's of chaetomorpha and some red kelp. I keep the sand bed separately and an unlit bin of rubble.

thankyou Tom --you know I appreciate your expertise and welcome every bit you offer.
I have always felt there are two functions for the refugium as dictated by the flow that goes through them.
Mine for the record has always focused on the production of inverts etc for the main tank and as a result I have only a trickle of flow through the refugium.
and I agree with you that a trickle of a flow is not going to cut it as nitrate/phosphate removal and that debris is going to collect in the refugium-----could thing I can't see the bottom of the refug through the corraline and opague plastic

as you are aware my system was not finiished--I wanted to add a mud base/deep argonite base with mangroves--but had stopped this due to funds and or concepts I had been reading regarding that might be too much nitrate removal for the total water column and inversely cause a decline in the cheato algae or overall plankton available to corals and inverts in the system

Your post has made me re think this approach and I am leaning towards the two refugiums but having the chaeto like you do in the bb refugium and the deepsand bed/mud in the mangroves refugium.
What's your thought on this system

BTW the water from the tank would first enter the db/mud refugium and then gravity feed to the main sump. The current refugium and sump would remain as it is. this would invovle moving the sump where it is too a lower position and placing the db/mud one where the sump is now===I think that is very doable?

[tmz]

Seems very doable and the mangroves are aestheticly pleasing. I don't know alot about them or the mud refugium.Seems like it would work nicely since the roots would cleanse the mud,I think.
I simply plumbed in an extra 44 gal bin and run a drain(I have several drains,so it's equivalent to a split off a drain) to it. It then gravity feeds into the sump.I keep rubble and live rock in it with no light(ala Tyree crptic zone). Some but not too much detrius accumulates and pods and sponge seem to do well in there.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by tmz
Seems very doable and the mangroves are aestheticly pleasing. I don't know alot about them or the mud refugium.Seems like it would work nicely since the roots would cleanse the mud,I think.
I simply plumbed in an extra 44 gal bin and run a drain(I have several drains,so it's equivalent to a split off a drain) to it. It then gravity feeds into the sump.I keep rubble and live rock in it with no light(ala Tyree crptic zone). Some but not too much detrius accumulates and pods and sponge seem to do well in there.

fbnitro--I hope this helps the topic of your thread---it wasn't meant to hijack, Tom is the guy to trust here-very experienced guy

Tom--you might enjoy these two thread and your input would be welcomed
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1187329

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1346627

[tmz]

Scott, Thanks for the compliment.
You obviously know what you're doing and there are more than one or even two ways to approach refugia depending on your primary goals
Incidentally I also heard sea grass in mud works well for some and the rhizopores(roots) aerate and provide habitat for pods. If you wan't to increase feedings of zooplankton you can consider a rotifer culture or hatching atremia naupali and feeding them after enriching them with pulverized spirulina and/or selcon. I used to do this once a week and the corals and fish loved it. Now I have quite a few fish in the system so routine feeding including cyclopeeze and fish waste seem to meet my needs.
BTW detrius also feeds your coral ,so shaking off your chaeto and or blowing off the substrate and rock in your display and letting that gunk float out is helpful for feeding as well as skimmer export. export.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by tmz
Scott, Thanks for the compliment.
You obviously know what you're doing and there are more than one or even two ways to approach refugia depending on your primary goals
Incidentally I also heard sea grass in mud works well for some and the rhizopores(roots) aerate and provide habitat for pods. If you wan't to increase feedings of zooplankton you can consider a rotifer culture or hatching atremia naupali and feeding them after enriching them with pulverized spirulina and/or selcon. I used to do this once a week and the corals and fish loved it. Now I have quite a few fish in the system so routine feeding including cyclopeeze and fish waste seem to meet my needs.
BTW detrius also feeds your coral ,so shaking off your chaeto and or blowing off the substrate and rock in your display and letting that gunk float out is helpful for feeding as well as skimmer export. export.

thanks as always

[FBNitro]

No hijacking apology required... Although I couldn't do the setup in my apartment, I like to at have the knowledge so that one day if I can afford a house (Vancouver prices just hit avg of $625,000 ) I can put it to use.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by FBNitro
No hijacking apology required... Although I couldn't do the setup in my apartment, I like to at have the knowledge so that one day if I can afford a house (Vancouver prices just hit avg of $625,000 ) I can put it to use.

wow--I had heard that hp's had gone wild out their--I think the average price in Hamilton is 289,000.

So, what have you come away with from Tom and my discussion?

[FBNitro]

To find a job in Hamilton!

I'll watch the detritus levels in my fuge, which is a little hard to do considering placement but I'll do my best. If I see the detritus starting to get way out of hand, I'll turkey baster out what I can. I won't remove all of it, since it's not the worst thing in the world to have floating around the tank occasionally.

I don't have a skimmer (10 gallon tank), that's the only reason why I'd consider removing manually if it gets too heavy.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by FBNitro
To find a job in Hamilton!

I'll watch the detritus levels in my fuge, which is a little hard to do considering placement but I'll do my best. If I see the detritus starting to get way out of hand, I'll turkey baster out what I can. I won't remove all of it, since it's not the worst thing in the world to have floating around the tank occasionally.

I don't have a skimmer (10 gallon tank), that's the only reason why I'd consider removing manually if it gets too heavy.

[Cfused]

I have a question to add to this post because it's kind of related. I have brown algae around my fuge too and I was thinking of putting some snails in there and hermit crabs in there. What do I have to do to prevent snails from crawling out of the fuge? Also any other type of inverts I would need to help clean the fuge?

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Cfused
I have a question to add to this post because it's kind of related. I have brown algae around my fuge too and I was thinking of putting some snails in there and hermit crabs in there. What do I have to do to prevent snails from crawling out of the fuge? Also any other type of inverts I would need to help clean the fuge?

nothing really--I have them in there and they seem to stay there because they are well fed.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Usually people have teeth cut into the top of their baffle for water leaving the fuge. I didn't do that on mine but if it's a problem I guess you could just add another piece of glass/acrylic and put it across the top with or without teeth.

I'm thinking about a pipefish and/or Seahorse in my fuge. But I think I'd rather have a mandarin in my display tank. I don't think I could culture enough pods for all of that in the fuge along with a couple of other wrasses.

[tmz]

Snails are fine but predatory fish or crabs will certainly deplete and probably exhoust pod populations and turn the refuge into a hunting ground.