Setting up my first Chiller

[zeblisik]

sorry guys, I cant find any threads about plumbing a chiller, the integrated search is jut not working and the google search didnt really give anything useful.

can anyone point me in the right direction or give some advice?

I have:
-90+ gallon system
-QuietOne 4000 return pump (though i dont think i want to plumb the chiller through the return pump ...or should i?).
-1/3 HP chiller, bought used, it has a coleman condenser yet the maker of the chiller is unknown. it is a pass through pump driven chiller with no temp controller. it has 1" inlet/outlet female threaded.
-the chiller will be almost 3.5 ft away from the tank, it will basically be level with the sump.

I'm considering on buying:
-ranco controller; im leaning towards the dual stage model to add redundancy to my 2x250w heaters

Questions:
1. how should i plumb this? it has to be 100% water proof with no possibility of leaks (haha). should i use rigid pvc? dont some people use hoses?
2. what kind of flow rate should i be looking for? I have a good maxijet1200 and an unreliable aquaclear70 (this i wouldnt use since a failed circulating pump would mean a cracked tube in the chiller if it froze, no?). would the maxi provide enough flow?
3. would a dual stage ranco controller be able to handle the chiller and heaters? the LRA is 29 and RLA is 7.2, though this is just the info off the condenser.

[turtleman9100]

I run a maxijet 1200 inside my tank down to my chiller then return it into my sump. I cut a small slit in the pump hose right below the water surface in the aquarium to break the siphon in case of power failure. It works ok for me and I am able to leave the chiller on the floor and pump back into the sump.

[Iostream]

Originally posted by turtleman9100
I run a maxijet 1200 inside my tank down to my chiller then return it into my sump. I cut a small slit in the pump hose right below the water surface in the aquarium to break the siphon in case of power failure. It works ok for me and I am able to leave the chiller on the floor and pump back into the sump.

Yikes, so what happens if your return pump fails, but there is no general power failure? You get almost 300GPH on your floor? Better to use it as a closed loop and return it to the tank.

[zeblisik]

Iostream,

Good observation.
Why wouldn't the pump be in the sump to begin with, the return going to the main?

[ReefEnabler]

I dont get it, isn't he describing a closed loop?

from the sump, an MJ1200 pumps water to the chiller then it gravity feeds back.

what could go wrong during a power outage? won't all the water in the pipes just drain into the sump? I feel like I misread it.

[zeblisik]

from how I read it,... he's got an MJ in the main tank, it goes down to the chiller, from the chiller into the sump.
what if the return pump fails...... depending on how deep the mj is, lots of water goes to the sump without being returned.

at least thats how i read it upon close inspection.


but all this dosn't help answer my questions directly..haha but i guess it helps me think about how it should be set up....

[ReefEnabler]

ohhh, I didn't realize the MJ was in the main display.

yes that would certainly be a problem.

[ReefEnabler]

"but all this dosn't help answer my questions directly..haha but i guess it helps me think about how it should be set up...."

haha I know how this can feel!

" would a dual stage ranco controller be able to handle the chiller and heaters? the LRA is 29 and RLA is 7.2, though this is just the info off the condenser"

hmm I am not so sure. according to the RLA, yes. But I dont know how the LRA would affect the Ranco.

The dual stage Ranco can handle 9.8amps or 1000w @ 110v, total load. However, I have never been able to figure out if this means 1000w of chillers and 1000w of heaters, since technically they will never be on at the same time.

The single ranco can handle 16 amprs or 1700W @110v total load.

Personally, I would not hook up your chiller directly to the dual stage, although it may be possible.

GHL sells a 'high amp expansion' that uses an outlet as a switch, but then draws the actual power from a wall socket. I bet you could make something very simple like that for pretty cheap that would protect the ranco from any high loads.

I'm not the expert on this and welcome what others have to say.

[zeblisik]

Ryan,

I have been wondering exactly this regarding the dual stage ranco.

Why would you not hook up both the heaters and chiller to a single dual stage ranco?

[Iostream]

Ahh, sorry... To address the original question, I dont see any reason not to run the return through the chiller with your setup. You will need a good controller, though I am not familiar with stand alone controllers since I use a AquaController II.

[ReefEnabler]

"Why would you not hook up both the heaters and chiller to a single dual stage ranco?"

the only reason I know is if one of your devices was over the max rated limit of the ranco. For example, my chiller is uses 13 amps constant. This means The dual stage is right out, since it cant handle 13 amps constant load. but the single can.

if I wanted to use the 2 stage ranco, an device like the GHL high amp expansion would be perfect. theyre pricey at $70somethin, so I'm sure it could be built for cheaper.

i have 2 single stage units. surprisingly, 2 single stages cost pretty close to a dual stage.

I haven't decided yet if I am going to use my 2nd ranco for my chiller, or just let the Chiller operate on its own controller, and use the 2nd ranco to heat the QT tank.

[turtleman9100]

Yes. My maxijet is in my display tank pumping down to the chiller and then into the sump. However, the pumps intank sits above the display tank overflow. The pump stops pumping water before the water lever drops below the overflow. Funny thing is, I lost power in my house the exact night I set this up and it works perfect. My sump and fuge catches all the all plus I got at least 10-15 more gallons free between the both. My instructions read to take water from one placed and pump it into another to make the chiller more efficient. According to the manual, you cannot pull from the sump and return to the sump or display tank for that matter and get the full potential from the chiller.

[ReefEnabler]

good point hadn't thought about that yet.

so what would be the most efficient way? pull water from upstream in the sump, but return the water downstream in the sump near the return pumps?

[turtleman9100]

The thing with my setup is, this worked best for me. I also have a auto top off system and with the chiller being connected inline with my return pump my sump water level fluctuated to the point it drove my auto top off system crazy and fill. I then tried using the maxijet to push water from the sump, thru the chiller and then to the display tank and the caused my sump to run low in the return area at times and micro bubbles would fill my tank. This was the only configuration that worked for me.

[zeblisik]

for inline chillers, does everyone use PVC? I was wondering if hose would be safe enough to use, or maybe something more durable yet still quite flexible... like that black hose sold at hardware stores for pumping out your basement in case of floods.

I guess I just want to avoid getting out the PVC cements; not to mention buying more pipe and elbows.

[Iostream]

Originally posted by zeblisik
for inline chillers, does everyone use PVC? I was wondering if hose would be safe enough to use, or maybe something more durable yet still quite flexible... like that black hose sold at hardware stores for pumping out your basement in case of floods.

I guess I just want to avoid getting out the PVC cements; not to mention buying more pipe and elbows.

Hose works fine for me. In fact most chillers come with hose barbs.

[zeblisik]

Ah my used one has female threaded PVC.

Iostream,
how strong is your chiller? How much flow do you have?

[Iostream]

I am pushing probably 400GPH through it after head loss. FWIW, I am also using flex for my drain and return. Basically all plumbing below the tanks. You can get plenty of pressure rated tubing at your local hardware store. The only time I have ever used hard plumbing underneath my tanks, was hard plumbing the my skimmer return to my sump under my 140G.

[zeblisik]

Iostream,
Are you using flex pvc? vinyl hose or what?

[Iostream]

For my chiller/return I use a reinforced vinyl tubing, available at both Home Depot and Lowes, it is mostly clear. For my drain I use spa flex pvc at the moment.