LFS Advice. What do you think?

[mattnbecs]

I went to one of my LFS yesterday, to get a blenny, as I am starting to get some hair algae. I explained about my tank.... 70G, set up over 2months ago, 2weeks ago I added 2 clowns, 2 pieces of Euphylia sp corals, and 1 rose BTA, and that is when the lights went on. Actinic for 12hrs, MH for 9. Currently all parameters are withing expected ranges for a reef tank, and I use RO+DI water for top ups.

This was his advice: "Since the tanks is new, and you have few corals in there, reduce the photoperiod to 4hrs for MH and 6 for the actinic, slowly, until more corals go in (I am planning to wait for a month or so). He said this will help with the green hair algae, and by the time I increase the photoperiod, my sump with caulerpa will be well established and with controlled feeding, I should not get any more algae."

What do you folk think about his suggestion?

thanks
Matteo

[vader88]

The advice seems pretty good, but I don't think I'd drop the photoperiod back that far. That RBTA needs more than 4 hours IMO

[mattnbecs]

I was more worried about the corals, since they "propagate" RBTAs at the LFS, so I assumed he knew what he was talking about.

What photoperiod would you advise?

[abulgin]

I would consider using Chaetomorpha over Caulerpa in your fuge. Caulerpa can be a disaster waiting to happen, even if you light it 24/7. Chaeto never goes sexual and only needs to be lit 12/7.

Oh . . . the original question . . . I agree with Vader--your RBTA (which was expensive, I'm sure) needs a full photoperiod. You might consider keeping your MH on for 9 hours, and figuring out why you have so much algae.

Explain what you mean by "propogate".

If you bought a propogated one, I hope you paid half.

[mattnbecs]

By propagation I mean fission. I did not pay half, but $70 wasn't bad considering that tank raised specimens (fish/corals/anemones/inverts) tent to do better then wild caught ones.

As far as the caulerpa, all the readings i have done seem to indicate that it does not go sexual in 24/7 lighting. 24/7 lighting also helps stabilize PH. Have you had a different experience than that? Could you point me out to further reading (I am always willing to learn)

The other thing the LFS point out is that BTA do not so much need MH as much as they need the actinic light. That I still have to confirm

[ahullsb]

I think you could cut the photoperiod by a few hours at least. Maybe 7-8 hours for the mh's and 10 for the actinics. I could see that helping with the hair algae a little.

[kmf507]

I wouldn't reduce photoperiod at all. Also, I'm surprised I'm the first to say it but they should've told you to wait until your tank is more stable (min 6 months) before adding an anemone. Not saying yours won't survive at all, it just might be tougher (this is were some champ chimes in that they cycled with an anemone or something....)

I agree about removing the caulerpa. I know several people that had it in one tank, and they all refuse to let it go near any new tank they set up. Cheato is much safer and doubles as a pod haven.

Since your tank is new you are going to go through some algea. And a blenny probably won't keep up with it. You might want to try some emerald crabs, but it's better to just control tank parameters.

Are you using RODI water? You also may try a phosban reactor to help eliminate algea.

[abulgin]

I want to know how one forces anemones to split. I HATE it when fish stores get something for free and sell it to you at full price. It really irks me. I spend thousands of dollars--at least don't bend me over when you get a chance.

There is no guaranty that Caulerpa won't go sexual even with 24/7 lighting. You can read this by searching on www.wetwebmedia.com and by reading Calfo's Reef Invertebrates. Also, lighting 24/7 doesn't stabilize pH any more than 12/7. The key is to light your fuge while your display lights are off (reverse daylight cycle)--that's what stabilizes pH. If your fuge is lit while your display is on, the only thing you're doing is wasting money/power and keeping Caulerpa from turning to mush. Moreover, Chaeto is just a better macro all youred. It fosters pod growth, it doesn't attach to anything and, thus, doesn't disintegrat everything its root touches.

There is more than enough blue spectrum in a 10,000K bulb or 14,000K bulb to satisfy a BTA. Daylight spectrum is way more important to a BTA than actinic lighting.

[jamest0o0]

Agreed caulerpa is a bad idea.

[mattnbecs]

sounds like you the LFS advise was bad. thanks for the replays

[Toddrtrex]

Besides putting in too much too fast... I actually think the BTA will be fine with 4 hours of light from the MH each day.

However, shortening the photo-period really won't solve your algae problem. It is caused my excess nutrients, even if your water is testing fine ( hard to tell without numbers ). Any phosphates and/or nitrates are being used up by the algae. This is part of the process of setting up a new tank, and shows what happens when you rush things.

[ILoveReefer]

Originally posted by abulgin
I want to know how one forces anemones to split. I HATE it when fish stores get something for free and sell it to you at full price. It really irks me. I spend thousands of dollars--at least don't bend me over when you get a chance.

I don't know how one forces an anemone to split either. But I do know the fish store isn't getting it for free. It takes time, tank space, man power, electricity to do it. It's definitely not free.

[tmz]

Originally posted by kmf507
I wouldn't reduce photoperiod at all. Also, I'm surprised I'm the first to say it but they should've told you to wait until your tank is more stable (min 6 months) before adding an anemone. Not saying yours won't survive at all, it just might be tougher (this is were some champ chimes in that they cycled with an anemone or something....)

I agree about removing the caulerpa. I know several people that had it in one tank, and they all refuse to let it go near any new tank they set up. Cheato is much safer and doubles as a pod haven.

Since your tank is new you are going to go through some algea. And a blenny probably won't keep up with it. You might want to try some emerald crabs, but it's better to just control tank parameters.

Are you using RODI water? You also may try a phosban reactor to help eliminate algea.

I cycled with some aiptasia anemones does that count?

Seriously,some good advice in the above post.


Some reduction in photo period is ok in my opinion in your situation though as long as you bring it back up within a week or so. Think of it as a cloudy week on the reef.

The problem is ,however, not the lighting it is the nutrients (phosphate and nitrate) and that will contiue for awhile requiring you to do more water changes and to use removers such as granualted ferric oxide ,carbon ,etc which is why it would have been healthier for the anemone to wait at least 6 mos untill your tank was stable. It takes a while for rock to drain out all it's die off even if it is previously cured and it takes time for the bacteria in the anoxic zones deep in the rock an sustate to establish themselves in sufficient numbers to break down all of the nitrate.

Heavy skimming will also help.

[abulgin]

Originally posted by ILoveReefer
I don't know how one forces an anemone to split either. But I do know the fish store isn't getting it for free. It takes time, tank space, man power, electricity to do it. It's definitely not free.

Okay, you're right, it costs them about $1.10 in salt, electricity and silversides . . .

[kmf507]

Originally posted by abulgin
Okay, you're right, it costs them about $1.10 in salt, electricity and silversides . . .

It costs much more than that....Besides, if an anemone in your tank split, would you give it away?

Your bio says you read the law....say you research x case and win for your client...Another person comes in asking for a consultation on the EXACT SAME topic. You'd do it for free? Hey, you've already researched it....

[tmz]

I agree ;fair market price is what the lfs shoud get. A tank raised specimen could even be priced higher than a wild caught one and is a better bet to survive in captivity, not to mention the avoidance of ripping at least one animal off the reef. I think an lfs that propogates some of it's livestock should be applauded.

[jimwat]

Reducing the light period "might" help. Hair algae in a new tank is pretty common, I would not make any big changes. BTW, if you do cut back on the light period, there is a good chance the anemone will wander (in case you've got powerheads that it might run into).

[greggnyce]

You should be able to get a rbta for 20 bucks from a fellow reefer who has one because they split constantly.

[abulgin]

Originally posted by kmf507
It costs much more than that....Besides, if an anemone in your tank split, would you give it away?

Your bio says you read the law....say you research x case and win for your client...Another person comes in asking for a consultation on the EXACT SAME topic. You'd do it for free? Hey, you've already researched it....

Well, we charge by the hour, so if the work has been done for another client then future clients benefit from the previous work. That's just the way it goes.

I don't expect people to give me anything for free--after all, this is America for G_d's sake. Sure--if you're blessed enough to have things overpopulate or split, then you should make money off of them if you can. But, RBTAs are expensive, and if the dealer paid $30 (or less) for his RBTA and it splits 7 times, maybe he/she wants to give regular customers a break? I think there is something to be said for being fair to your customers. You can be fair and make a profit, you know.

I'm sorry, but you won't convince me that it costs a lot of money for a dealer who already has established tanks and all the equipment to keep a few BTAs going in a tank.

[mattnbecs]

Thanks again for the info, all good advise if my hair algae gets out of control. I guess my original post was misunderstood somewhat. I don't have a hair algae infestation. I have a few strands here and there, in one corner of the tank. It's been like that for a week, and it does not seem to be getting any worse. The blenny was bought to help ensure it did not get any worse.

I only asked the LFS what he thought since I was there anyway to get the blenny. I had never read anything that sounded like his advice, so I thought I'd bounce it off you guys. The forum is were I go for the real advice

[ccoral]

There are different ways to fix most problems in a reef aquarium,
what works for one may not work for others.
LFS need to make money to stay alive and there is a cost to everything even if a coral or anemone is to propagate in house. The value is acutally more as this animal is harder than something taken from the wild. Be fortunate that your LFS is able to keep and sustain and propagate animals. As there are many stores that have problems keeping a tang alive.
With mail order LFS are having a hard time and if you are like me I enjoy stopping in as many stores as possible to see what is new or finding that new rare coral.
Support your LFS

[silent saab]

there is a forum on here where this guy actually shuts his lights of for about three days then turns the actinics back on the first day back on then after that he goes back to a normal light schedule and he said that it was amazing how much his corals grewq after the three day period...

[NirvanaFan]

Originally posted by ILoveReefer
I don't know how one forces an anemone to split either.

You cut it in half like you would a mushroom. Supposedly it is very easy.

I wouldn't worry too much about the hair algae, it may take some time, but the nutrients it needs will get used up.

[tmz]

mine split on their own without encouragement.

[NirvanaFan]

if you feed them every day, you can cut BTA in half monthly.