pics of my setup and want to try the light method for removing cyano

[SharkBait_Mtl]

hello reefers,

here are the pics of my setup prior to moving into my house next month...

I would like to try the "light out" method for removing the cyano from my tank.

weekly when I do my water changes (about 20-25 gal) I try to siphon out the cyano, but it keeps coming back. I have cyano everywhere. even close to some of my corals... should I move my corals away from the cyano?? I also have a red anemone... will the light out affect it?

I have my tank in my dining/living room and periodically I have sunlight that reaches my tank. do I have to cover up the sides of my tank or keep my window blinds down as well? also what about my dining room light... (I need light to eat... lol) would the light in my diningroom/living room effect the light out?

what exactly are the steps to feeding and bringing light back into my tank.

my tank with all service areas closed


tank with service areas open


closeup of display


closeup of sump/refuge (hair algae covering front... how can i remove?? scrape it off???)


top view of sump/refuge


return area with fans to cool tank


topview of RDSB

[SharkBait_Mtl]

is that hair algae on my powerhead??


what type of coral is this??


candycane


brain


plate (correct me if I am wrong)


I had a finger leather, xenias, green and purple hammers... but they died recently when I used AZNO3 to try and reduce nitrates...

nitrates were at 50ish but have dropped to 10-20... ammonia/nitirite are undetectable... calcium at around 400, pH at around 8

[SharkBait_Mtl]

also I wanted to mention...

I have a maroon clown, an ornate wrasse, a blue hippo tang, a yellow tang, and a mandarin.

I have about 120 lbs of live rock (figi, vanuatu, and some baserock turnedlivrock)

are there too man fish in my tank??? I have always had a nitrate problem.. I have never seen my nitrates at 0.

any advice??

[Tswifty]

Here's the thread on it:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1078532

[crsswift70]

How long have you been having this issue? Algae needs nutrients to survive, so i would try to isolate the source. Whether that be overfeeding, or even the water you are using. Do you use RO/DI water only? You can also try lighting that chaeto 24/7 to absorb nutrients. It's kind of small. To have the issues you are having, i would have expected it to be growing rapidly (maybe it's new?). Also, old bulbs can cause an algae bloom. Lighting might hinder or get rid of the algae you currently have, but it might just come back again if the reason for its growth isn't removed.

[SharkBait_Mtl]

I use RODI water... I just changed the filters on it... I was told that changing the filters every 6 months was ok... butwhen I changed the filters last time I noticed that they were pretty nasty... so I think that I will be changing the filters on my RODI every 3 months....

I have been having the nitrate issuse ever since I started the hobby 2 years ago. I started with a 60g cube. I recieved the tank with water and rocks from my brother tangman_mtl then upgraded to a 90g a year later. At first I suspected that the skimmer that I had for the 60G was inefficent, and when I went to get a bigger one it would not fit underneath the cube so I got a bigger tank with a bigger stand. GREAT solution IMO... lol but my nitrates never went down. I also suspected my wife was feeding the tank when I was at work. which I had caught her doing once... I came home and noticed some nori floating in the tank. she no longer feeds the tank. I hope.

as for lighting... I got my geissman January in used condition... but was told that the it was used only at a trade show for 2 weeks... so it is still fairly new. Actinics go on at 8AM and off at 10PM.. MH goes on at noon and off at 8PM... the light in my refuge is also new.... it is a compact fluresent floodlight... it is on the same timer as my actinic.

Am I giving to much light?? is there a better lighting schedule that I could use??

as for feeding... I feed the tank flakes (Ocean nutrition formula two) and Tetra color tropical granules once a day in the morning (both are mixed in an autofeeder)... and all the food gets eaten. once a week I feed them mysis (2 cubes thawed in a shotglass and drained) and nori (2 pieces about an inch square with selcon dripped on it). However, for the last 2 weeks I have stopped the once a week feeding thinking that I was overfeeding...

[SharkBait_Mtl]

and I almost forgot...

I got a new chunk of cheeto (2 weeks) but I had another chunk of cheeto in the refuge for 2 months... around the same time I got my corals

[abulgin]

I don't think the "lights out" method is going to solve the problem. You need to figure out where you're getting nutrients, or you'll just have the same problem again and again.

How often are you changing your water?

Have you tested your mixed saltwater to see if it contains nitrates or phosphates? You could have a bad batch of salt.

What kind of macroalgae is in your sump--I can't tell whether it's Chaeto or Caulerpa or a combination.

It doesn't look like you employ a deep sand bed in your sump. This is something you could try to remove nitrates.

What temperature is that compact fluorescent that's lighting your macro? If it's not 6,500K (or higher), it's not doing anything productive.

Your lights are on a little too long, IMO. I would limit the photoperiod to 12 hours max--MH on for no more than 10 hours and actinics on for no more than 12 hours.

I don't think you have too many fish. Of course, that Blue Hippo Tang is unsuited to your tank, but currently I don't think you have a high bioload especially considering the amount of live rock you have.

Nitrates of 10-20ppm isn't that bad.

[weluvfish54]

lights out.

[SharkBait_Mtl]

Originally posted by SharkBait_Mtl
and I almost forgot...

I got a new chunk of cheeto (2 weeks) but I had another chunk of cheeto in the refuge for 2 months... around the same time I got my corals

sorry a little typo... the Chaeto is 2 months old and Caulerpa is 2 weeks old

[SharkBait_Mtl]

Originally posted by abulgin
I don't think the "lights out" method is going to solve the problem. You need to figure out where you're getting nutrients, or you'll just have the same problem again and again.

How often are you changing your water?

Have you tested your mixed saltwater to see if it contains nitrates or phosphates? You could have a bad batch of salt.

What kind of macroalgae is in your sump--I can't tell whether it's Chaeto or Caulerpa or a combination.

It doesn't look like you employ a deep sand bed in your sump. This is something you could try to remove nitrates.

What temperature is that compact fluorescent that's lighting your macro? If it's not 6,500K (or higher), it's not doing anything productive.

Your lights are on a little too long, IMO. I would limit the photoperiod to 12 hours max--MH on for no more than 10 hours and actinics on for no more than 12 hours.

I don't think you have too many fish. Of course, that Blue Hippo Tang is unsuited to your tank, but currently I don't think you have a high bioload especially considering the amount of live rock you have.

Nitrates of 10-20ppm isn't that bad.

where else could the nutrients be coming from??? am I over feeding??? is the food I use no good???

I change the water every 1-2 weeks. 20g-25g.

I am preparing some water as we speak to get it ready for a waterchange once the light-out is done (friday). I will test it for nitrates once it is ready tomorow morning. I dont have a test kit for phosphates but I will go out and get one after I finish writing this.

I have a comination of both Chaeto and Caulerpa. as for the light I am not sure... but the Chaeto or Caulerpa has barely grown since I got it 2 months ago so I guess I dont have the right light in there.

I figured I dont need a deep sandbed in the sump because I have a 5 gal RDSB.

for the photo period... should the sump have lights on 24/7?? and in your opinion changing the timers Actinic 10AM-10PM and MH 11AM-9PM help??

out of curiosity... why is the blue hippo not suited to the tank?

[Flavum]

The hippo tang needs a 6 foot tank for a decent size swimming area. there very active swimmers. You wont have to worry about that for a little while though.
Its ok though ive got a hippo in my 40 breeder atm ssshhhh dont tell anyone though the Tang Police Will be all over me!

[Flavum]

O I forgot if your having trouble growing caulerpa than there is something wrong in your tank...It should be hard to kill!

[abulgin]

Originally posted by SharkBait_Mtl
where else could the nutrients be coming from??? am I over feeding??? is the food I use no good???

I change the water every 1-2 weeks. 20g-25g.

I am preparing some water as we speak to get it ready for a waterchange once the light-out is done (friday). I will test it for nitrates once it is ready tomorow morning. I dont have a test kit for phosphates but I will go out and get one after I finish writing this.

I have a comination of both Chaeto and Caulerpa. as for the light I am not sure... but the Chaeto or Caulerpa has barely grown since I got it 2 months ago so I guess I dont have the right light in there.

I figured I dont need a deep sandbed in the sump because I have a 5 gal RDSB.

for the photo period... should the sump have lights on 24/7?? and in your opinion changing the timers Actinic 10AM-10PM and MH 11AM-9PM help??

out of curiosity... why is the blue hippo not suited to the tank?

You might try changing water every 2 weeks rather than every 1 week. If your new water has nutrients in it, you're actually adding nutrients the more water changes you do. Sometimes more water changes is not good.

The nutrients are getting in because you're either overfeeding, you're feeding bad foods or your water is bad (check phosphates and nitrates in your RO/DI water and of your mixed saltwater).

Generally, keeping two types of macroalgae in the fuge is not a good idea. You should grow one or the other. When you mix different types, they will compete for the nutrients and neither one will grow or one will eventually win the battle and the other will die off. Chaeto is a better macro IMO, because it does not go sexual and, thus, will not foul your tank. Caulerpa repoduces by "going sexual" and will complete destroy your tank when it does. To *help* prevent this, people usually keep Caulerpa lit 24/7. With Chaeto, you don't need to light it 24/7. Many people, myself included, light Chaeto somewhere between 12 and 16 hours per day on a reverse daylight cycel.

You need to make sure that the temperature of your fuge lights is ideal for plant growth--generally 6,500K-10,000K. If it's a typical CF bulb you bought at Home Depot, it's probably 3,500K which is no good. With the amount of phoshpates you obviously have, any macro you have in a fuge should be growing like crazy.

A blue hippo tang gets to be 12" or more and needs room to swim (6 foot long tank minimum--about 200 gallons of tank). When they are forced to live in a small aquarium, they can actually experience psychological problems (I know, I know . . .) and will either be stressed and die early or terrorize your other fish.

[SharkBait_Mtl]

noob question here....

how do i identify chaeto or caulerpa??

from visual inspection I see one is a lighter color with "bubbles" abd the other is a darker green and looks like astroturf. I tried to take a picture but no matter what I do my POS camera would not focus properly...

[crsswift70]

oh man, that looks like grape caulerpa. it was the bane of my existence in my old tank. I personally would not use that. If it get's in the main tank it is such a pain to remove. Chaeto is the brilo pad and is what i use in my fuge. The lighting is important for it and i would look for a 6500k bulb or better as someone else suggested. 24x7 works for many people over the fuge. Have you by chance tested the ro/di water for nitrates?

[jdmcivicek9]

yeah take the culurpa out...thats the stuff with the bubbles on it...the chaeto is the stuff that looks like "astroturf" as you put it and thats the stuff you want...i ve had to do lights out in my 30 gal nano a couple times and it really does work!! i just turn the lights out for 3 days and then on the 4th day i kick on the actinics and on the 5th day the day i turn all the lights back on seems to work fine with my tank never had a loss!!

[alextheromanian]

Originally posted by SharkBait_Mtl
hello reefers,

here are the pics of my setup prior to moving into my house next month...

I would like to try the "light out" method for removing the cyano from my tank.

weekly when I do my water changes (about 20-25 gal) I try to siphon out the cyano, but it keeps coming back. I have cyano everywhere. even close to some of my corals... should I move my corals away from the cyano?? I also have a red anemone... will the light out affect it?

I have my tank in my dining/living room and periodically I have sunlight that reaches my tank. do I have to cover up the sides of my tank or keep my window blinds down as well? also what about my dining room light... (I need light to eat... lol) would the light in my diningroom/living room effect the light out?

what exactly are the steps to feeding and bringing light back into my tank.

my tank with all service areas closed


tank with service areas open


closeup of display


closeup of sump/refuge (hair algae covering front... how can i remove?? scrape it off???)


top view of sump/refuge


return area with fans to cool tank


topview of RDSB

if you use RO water...even from walmart that should help. also less light...cut down to about maybe 6?


buy a lawnmower blenny and petco has these huge snails....for about 2$ a piece.


the lawnmower...will literally mow that lawn it loves eating and youll love him because they have amazing characters.


the best way to cut all that stuff down is to use better water less food and cut down the light a bit atleast untill things get better.


algae of ALL kinds needs garbage and light to survive.

also increase some of the water movement in there if you have better water movement the rocks will filter the water better thus pulling some of that algae food out



good luck!



OH another thing..many see these alga blooms in their tanks and eventually die down...its just phases your tank will go trough luckly its not impossible to fix.

dont do water changes ESPECIALLY with fosset water

[A.VOID]

If you don't mind doing chemicals, then Red Slime Remover (Chemiclean) works fantastic.
It never hurt my corals or inverts. The only thing that sucks is when I turn on my skimmer after 24 hours I skimmed out about 5 gallons in about an hour of constantly watching it.

I've used it twice and I'll use it again if I need to. The water looks cleaner too.

[SharkBait_Mtl]

thx for all the helpful replies....

I checked in on the thread on my phone today while I was out and when I stopped at my LFS I picked up a phosphate test(salifert), 5 GIANT turbo snails (biggest snails I ever saw), 5 smaller snails and a lawnmower blenny.... funny u mentioned that.... my wife always wanted one.

as soon as I got home I did a test of my water (pre-salt)... nitrates and phosphates are 0... my bin should be full by tonight so i will add salt tonight and retest water tomorow.

I asked my friend about the chaeto he gave me... he told me that his chaeto was mixed with caulerpa. The caulerpa that I bought is sitting in the garbage.

I also got some new lights for the refuge... Coralife mini compact... one of them is 50/50 (50% 10k daylight & 50% actinic 03 blue) the other is a pink daylight lamp.

The refuge lights are now on a timer... what would be the best time to have them run?? I recall somebody said that the lights should be on a reverse daylight cycle for 16 hours. I put the timer to run from 3pm to 7am... is that ok??

[crsswift70]

They suggest opposite schedules to your main lighting to cut down on pH swings. I turn mine on when the mains go off and vice versa. I have also used the 24x7 method and the chaeto never seemed to mind. It constantly grew.

[Sk8r]

I've skimmed the thread: this stuff isn't---repeat---isn't algae. It's bacteria. Animals, like your fish, not plants, like the weed.
Lights-out will work, but you can't do it with caulerpa in the mix: needs to be gotten out. The stuff goes to milky mess if it goes sexual, as it does with a major light change.

The chemical slime removers are dangerous to a new tank: they kill part of your sandbed, and kill the bacterial sheet (cyano) as well: but here's the kicker: the primary thing the cyano feeds on is light---and the stuff your skimmer takes out. If you have cyano because you have a weak skimmer (among other problems) and then use the chemicals, which kill off not only the cyano but part of your waste reduction system (the sand bacteria)---all of a sudden you've got the equivalent of a large dead tang in your tank and nothing to take care of the waste.

So try the lights-out on the display only; 4th day actinic only if you have mh lighting; and make sure your skimmer is actively pulling out stuff---a lot of stuff.

[che25]

Another reason not to use caulerpa:

This seaweed as been a big nuisance in California. It finds a way into the real ocean and the State winds up paying big bucks to eradicate it in coastal waters. It is a dangerous and invasive species. It is such a problem in the Mediterranean that it is likely it can never be eradicated.

Check out this link for more info: http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/losang..._article.shtml

[SharkBait_Mtl]

Originally posted by Sk8r
I've skimmed the thread: this stuff isn't---repeat---isn't algae. It's bacteria. Animals, like your fish, not plants, like the weed.
Lights-out will work, but you can't do it with caulerpa in the mix: needs to be gotten out. The stuff goes to milky mess if it goes sexual, as it does with a major light change.

I have removed the caulerpa (new batch that I bought 2 weeks ago) and tossed it in the trash. However the chaeto that I got from a friend has some caulerpa weived through it... I dont think I will be able to remove it from the chaeto ... my friend told me that he has had this mix in his refuge for 3 years and he has not had any problems... but if you think that I should remove it let me know and I will toss it away as well and try to get some new chaeto.

Originally posted by Sk8r
The chemical slime removers are dangerous to a new tank: they kill part of your sandbed, and kill the bacterial sheet (cyano) as well: but here's the kicker: the primary thing the cyano feeds on is light---and the stuff your skimmer takes out. If you have cyano because you have a weak skimmer (among other problems) and then use the chemicals, which kill off not only the cyano but part of your waste reduction system (the sand bacteria)---all of a sudden you've got the equivalent of a large dead tang in your tank and nothing to take care of the waste.

My tank just recovered (after a loss of many corals) from using chemicals (AZNO3) to try and reduce nitrates. I will never use chemicals of any kind again in my tank. I have learned my lesson. Also.. my system has been running for 2 years so it is not really a new system.

Originally posted by Sk8r
So try the lights-out on the display only; 4th day actinic only if you have mh lighting; and make sure your skimmer is actively pulling out stuff---a lot of stuff.

I usually empty my skimmer every 4-5 days but I had to empty my skimmer today... looks like a good sign. I started the "light-out" yesterday so if my math is correct...

(cutscene from family guy... Peter runs off to a science lab to do some calculations... comes back and says "this many".... u know the one... lol)

I should bring my actinics back on friday.





after reading and seeing all the beautiful reefs on this website, I will only do things recommended by the users of this website because afterall you guys obviously know what you are doing.

On another note... people seem to say not to use tap water... I never have... I have an Aquasafe RO/DI setup. However I think I found the source of some of my problems... today at my LFS I was told that after a filter change I should run the water through the filters for 20 mins of so and toss that water away before using any of the water produced by the RO/DI.

[SharkBait_Mtl]

so I mixed the salt and tested the water.... nitrates and phosphates are 0... so my salt is good... but I just ran out... I will be opening another bucket of salt my next water change.. hopefully it is ok. what are the chances of getting bad salt??


I figured I may as well test my tank water since I had all the tests out...

Nitrates - between 50-100
phosphates - 0
pH - a little lower than 7.8
carbonate hardness - between 125.3 - 148.2ppm KH
calcium - 380
ammonia - 0.50

The high nitrates and the presence of ammonia are scaring me.
Is it normal that my nitrates spiked again doing the light out?? could something have died? all my fish are accounted for.. thereare 2 shrimp that have disappeared since the day i put them in the tank and I have not seen them since...
should I do a water change in between the lightout??? and another after the light out??

I have put a blanket over my tank since tuesday to make sure no sunlight would hit the tank. I only lift the blanket to change the bulb in my refuge and add some more snails today for about 30 mins.