odyssea purchase. - Page 4

jdmcivicek9 · 07/29/2008, 08:47 PM

the first thing i would do when you get your fixture is buy new ballasts for it...i went with 2 250w icecaps and it was an amazing difference...i will post a picture...the next thing will be to change the bulbs to phoenix 14k bulbs because i think i ended up with more like 10k bulbs instead of 14k that they claim to be...

this is the fixture over my new 75 gal with the icecap ballasts and stock bulbs...

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 08:45 AM

GOOD POST jdmcivicek!

how much did an icecap ballast run for?

i usually see them around 130-150 but i havent REALLY looked into it.

che25 · 07/30/2008, 08:56 AM

Just read your post on female woes............sorry ol' chap.

My wife like the tank most of the time. However, last night she threated to dump a gallon of bleach in the tank if I don't stop spending so much time with the tank. She did destroy one of my guitars when I used to gig, so I take her threats seriously.

Good luck.

jdmcivicek9 · 07/30/2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alextheromanian
GOOD POST jdmcivicek!

how much did an icecap ballast run for?

i usually see them around 130-150 but i havent REALLY looked into it.

i think i paid 129.99 each from marine depot and got 1.00 shipping so it was like 261.00 for both...and they were worth every penny!!

abulgin · 07/30/2008, 09:09 AM

There is a place that sells them for $109--trying to find it and will post. Also, regarding the Phoenix 14,000K, it's not a true 14,000K bulb. I think it's more like 25,000K (but can't remember where I read that). People that like the Phoenix like the very blue color that it emits. If you want a "white" bulb, the Phoenix is not for you. See my post regarding the performance of the Phoenix compared to other 14,000K bulbs here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1440957

abulgin · 07/30/2008, 09:12 AM

$115. Go here http://www.aquatictech.com/aquarium_lighting.html scroll about 2/3 of the way down.

IceCap Metal Halide Electronic Ballasts
HQI 150 watt ballast (will run any bulb) $124.95

HQI 175 watt ballast (will run any 175 watt bulb)
SALE $104.95 !!!

HQI 250 watt ballast (will run any 250 watt bulb)
available in 120 (or 220 volt version for an additional $15.00)
SALE $114.95 !!!

jdmcivicek9 · 07/30/2008, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by abulgin
$115. Go here http://www.aquatictech.com/aquarium_lighting.html, scroll about 2/3 of the way down.

IceCap Metal Halide Electronic Ballasts
HQI 150 watt ballast (will run any bulb) $124.95

HQI 175 watt ballast (will run any 175 watt bulb)
SALE $104.95 !!!

HQI 250 watt ballast (will run any 250 watt bulb)
available in 120 (or 220 volt version for an additional $15.00)
SALE $114.95 !!!

do they charge for shipping though??

abulgin · 07/30/2008, 09:38 AM

Don't know--doesn't say. Would have to call them.

jdmcivicek9 · 07/30/2008, 09:47 AM

heres a picture of my ballasts...marine depot shipped them out really quick to me i think it only took 4-5 days including the day i purchased them.

abulgin · 07/30/2008, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdmcivicek9
heres a picture of my ballasts...marine depot shipped them out really quick to me i think it only took 4-5 days including the day i purchased them.

I also got mine from Marine Depot--great customer service. Note, that you'll need one of these to connect the ballast to the fixture: http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop...htm?sku=205874

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by che25
Just read your post on female woes............sorry ol' chap.

My wife like the tank most of the time. However, last night she threated to dump a gallon of bleach in the tank if I don't stop spending so much time with the tank. She did destroy one of my guitars when I used to gig, so I take her threats seriously.

Good luck.

WOW im sorry to hear that.
personally i wouldnt take that kind of attitude from anyone especially if the money i spent was the money i worked for.

granted there are bills etc to pay but if everythig was in order id see fit to do whatever damn well i please to do with my money.

but then again i dont know the whose storry so i guess good luck!

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 11:47 AM

REGARDING THE ICECAP BALLASTS.

i have a question. i have noticed the odyssea ones have a outlet where you plug in the light...a regular grouded outlet...and then OUT of the ballasts come out reggular plugs to plug into your home standard grounded socket.

question is ...does the icecap come with this standard home socket to plug your oddysea into or would i have to chop off the plugs and wire the light wires into the icecap ballast.

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alextheromanian
REGARDING THE ICECAP BALLASTS.

i have a question. i have noticed the odyssea ones have a outlet where you plug in the light...a regular grouded outlet...and then OUT of the ballasts come out reggular plugs to plug into your home standard grounded socket.

question is ...does the icecap come with this standard home socket to plug your oddysea into or would i have to chop off the plugs and wire the light wires into the icecap ballast.

ok question answered i didnt read thurally trough.

THANK YOU!

abulgin · 07/30/2008, 11:50 AM

See my post above--that you will need one of these: http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Sho....htm?sku=205874

This will go from the ballast socket to the fixture's cord. No chopping required.

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by abulgin
See my post above--that you will need one of these: http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Sho....htm?sku=205874

This will go from the ballast socket to the fixture's cord. No chopping required.

awesome thank you!

ill add those to a future purchase list

phenom5 · 07/30/2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alextheromanian

its like buying a mac...instead of a PC...a mac will be just a prone to viruses to hacking to breaking...with even worst customer service...but youll pay for the name...for for the promise that what you buy is the BEST....when infact its just another personal...computer...

Spoken like a true PC user. Comparing a PC to a Mac...now that's just silly.

Good luck with the light.

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 03:11 PM

hah hows that silly?

well granted id never compare price wise...

paying for a mac is like buying hyundai for the price of an audi.

thank you!

jthao · 07/30/2008, 04:59 PM

I always see these aquatraders threads...... and I think to myself, should I tell them the truth or not??? it's like I don't wanna be the person to tell the kids that Santa Clause don't exist!!!
Well kids.... Santa Clause don't exits!!! lol

here's how it works: aquatraders lights are made by a company in china called JKS enterprise. they make electrical components etc... etc.... they also make parts and pieces for other companies. The coralife company had JKS make their lights for them, then slap on the sticker coralife. They also have JKS make more "high end" ballasts because they're charging an arm/leg for their fixture. So yes, the coralife unit comes with better ballasts/bulbs, but you're paying 3x more for just the ballasts/bulbs?? not worth it, since the ballasts/bulbs aren't even that much better than the odyssea ones. For the extra $$$ I would spend on the coralife unit, I'd just buy the odyssea one and buy higher end ballasts/bulbs (pfo/ phoenix)
Hate to be the one to tell you guys these, but go look at the ballast made by catalina aquariums, coraluve, ice cap, they all look the same, especially on the inside!! I know that for a fact the coralvue and the catalina aquarium ballast are the same, I've compared them. Also all these other companies, I don't wanna say any names here, they use the same components that are from china made fixtures. The only fixtures that don't use any components from china or over seas, are units that you made yourself at home!!!! Even at that, the raw material might have come from china!!

Basically I just wanna say...... if you don't mind changing out bulbs/ ballasts etc.... then this unit is perfect for you. It's a very well made unit for the price. I've owned many of these units, 24", 36", 48", and 72" mh/pc combo. will it be better than my lumenarcs with pfo hqi ballasts and soon to be radium SE bulbs, NO WAY!!!!

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jthao
I always see these aquatraders threads...... and I think to myself, should I tell them the truth or not??? it's like I don't wanna be the person to tell the kids that Santa Clause don't exist!!!
Well kids.... Santa Clause don't exits!!! lol

here's how it works: aquatraders lights are made by a company in china called JKS enterprise. they make electrical components etc... etc.... they also make parts and pieces for other companies. The coralife company had JKS make their lights for them, then slap on the sticker coralife. They also have JKS make more "high end" ballasts because they're charging an arm/leg for their fixture. So yes, the coralife unit comes with better ballasts/bulbs, but you're paying 3x more for just the ballasts/bulbs?? not worth it, since the ballasts/bulbs aren't even that much better than the odyssea ones. For the extra $$$ I would spend on the coralife unit, I'd just buy the odyssea one and buy higher end ballasts/bulbs (pfo/ phoenix)
Hate to be the one to tell you guys these, but go look at the ballast made by catalina aquariums, coraluve, ice cap, they all look the same, especially on the inside!! I know that for a fact the coralvue and the catalina aquarium ballast are the same, I've compared them. Also all these other companies, I don't wanna say any names here, they use the same components that are from china made fixtures. The only fixtures that don't use any components from china or over seas, are units that you made yourself at home!!!! Even at that, the raw material might have come from china!!

Basically I just wanna say...... if you don't mind changing out bulbs/ ballasts etc.... then this unit is perfect for you. It's a very well made unit for the price. I've owned many of these units, 24", 36", 48", and 72" mh/pc combo. will it be better than my lumenarcs with pfo hqi ballasts and soon to be radium SE bulbs, NO WAY!!!!

I WOULD GIVE YOU SUCH A NON GAY SENTIMENTAL HUG RIGHT NOW FOR THAT POST! you have NO idea!

same thing many get so stubborn about even with PC and mac. granted they have NOTHING to do with this...but its the same scenario...ones hella expensive and the other comes cheaper...the cheaper one has the bad rep for not lasting running lousy and never being as good.

when infact they are both the same thing with parts made in china.

i had a choice between an 800$ hp and a 1400$ mac...
the hp looked better had more features options and its more upgradable if and when it gets dated.

same as this thing.
why buy a coralife when you can buy this at not even half the price (when it works just fine) and UPGRADE with probably BETTER ballast and bulbs than the stock coralife fixture and STILL come out CHEAPER than just buying a coralife fixture beand NEW.

you were wrong...there IS a santa clauss....and he comes bearing CHEAP upgradable lighting fixtures for not even half the price...WITH free SLED shipping.

phenom5 · 07/30/2008, 06:05 PM

True that a lot of the internal components of computers are the same...it's all about the OS, and Mac OS is so much better then Windows...and it ain't even close. Gaming...100% Windows machine. Everything else...Mac.

But enough. This thread isn't about computers, it's about lights damnit! I wish people would quit taking this off topic...oh wait, that'd be me. Sorry.

jdmcivicek9 · 07/30/2008, 06:23 PM

all i have to say is to each his own...if i had no budget i would probably have bought a nicer name brand fixture but im not financially free YET...so i went with a less expensive yet when i had money upgradeable fixture in which i did end up upgrading the parts that were obsolete and now have a pretty decent fixture that can compete with the name brand ones...but anyway like scions slogan is "like it or loath it" haha i just happen to like it

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 06:26 PM

phenom5 its quite alright...i guess this off topic convo is due to the fact that i have NOTHING to do and im waiting for the Odyssea lights to come in.

untill then its small talk but i do intend on doing sort of a recap on the whole thing....ever since the first phonecall to the end product being placed ontop of the aqaurium+ afterthoughts.

i think this would help most read about the whole "ODYSSEA PURCHASE" in one post rather than getting bits and pieces here and there.

i also ENCOURAGE anyone who has the same or different light fixture but from the same COMPANY to post pictures experiences helpful constructive tips and side notes on WHERE they purchased them and wether or not they are HAPPTY or not with the way they were or if the had to UPGRADE/buy ANOTHER fixture

CoralCaps · 07/30/2008, 06:50 PM

I got to see the fixtures yesterday. They look really, really nice with a sleek lines. Wouldn't mind having one above my tank. The T5HO's were not THAT bright. I can't look into a 4x54w Nova (1 reflector), these I could without any issue. Either bad bulbs or ballasts, whichever.

BUT if you are a DIY I think the halide fixtures are awesome. Ballasts are inexpensive and bulbs as well. If I did get the T5HO fixture I'd at least slap some Workhorses in there if not Icecap and change out the bulbs (personally wouldn't bother with them at all).

After seeing them, I will be doing a Sunlight Supply Retrofit into a spare fixture my buddy has (it's gutted so I'll retro them into there).

I think the MH/PC fixtures are certainly worth it. A friend ran a stock one above his frag tank for quite a while with no issues. But the T5HO I think you'd be better off with a Nova or something.

Getting excited about your light yet?

alextheromanian · 07/30/2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CoralCaps
I got to see the fixtures yesterday. They look really, really nice with a sleek lines. Wouldn't mind having one above my tank. The T5HO's were not THAT bright. I can't look into a 4x54w Nova (1 reflector), these I could without any issue. Either bad bulbs or ballasts, whichever.

BUT if you are a DIY I think the halide fixtures are awesome. Ballasts are inexpensive and bulbs as well. If I did get the T5HO fixture I'd at least slap some Workhorses in there if not Icecap and change out the bulbs (personally wouldn't bother with them at all).

After seeing them, I will be doing a Sunlight Supply Retrofit into a spare fixture my buddy has (it's gutted so I'll retro them into there).

I think the MH/PC fixtures are certainly worth it. A friend ran a stock one above his frag tank for quite a while with no issues. But the T5HO I think you'd be better off with a Nova or something.

Getting excited about your light yet?

VERY excited actually!

thank you for the insight on their other lights...i do belive they are t6HO not t5ho...but im not certain.

if i were anymore certain that they were t5HO and not t6ho id TRY one with brighter bulbs and who knows what else but being T6HO the bulbs are very rare and i think its already been established that MOST of the bulbs that come stock from any ODYSSEA product are GARBAGE...whats most is that chances are when you DO find replacement bulbs they will be the SAME garbage brand.

do you know of any cheaper but good individual T5HO reflectors?

icecap and Tek seem to charge an arm and a leg for a single reflector

agreeive?fish · 07/30/2008, 08:40 PM

Ok iam intrested in following this thread as iam starting a 29g mini reef tank( low to moderate light ) and iam currently researching lights.... my biggest thing about theese lights is they are not UL listed an some insurance companies/polocies will deny payment if a electrical fire is contributed to an electrical product that is not UL listed..I am not saying theese lights will cause a fire because i dont know anything about them other than what i have read today..i actuall stumbled onto the aqutrades web site today...i will be tagging along with great intrest..(oh the mini reef is to get the wife off my back as she wants a reef and iam a FOWLR guy)

07/30/2008, 08:45 AM	#77
alextheromanian Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Binghamton NY Posts: 1,007	GOOD POST jdmcivicek! how much did an icecap ballast run for? i usually see them around 130-150 but i havent REALLY looked into it. __________________ i just cant think of any phylosophical, deep, critical thinking quotes right now. Current Tank Info: 29g Reef, 75g FOWLR

07/30/2008, 08:56 AM	#78
che25 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 173	Just read your post on female woes............sorry ol' chap. My wife like the tank most of the time. However, last night she threated to dump a gallon of bleach in the tank if I don't stop spending so much time with the tank. She did destroy one of my guitars when I used to gig, so I take her threats seriously. Good luck. __________________ Ave caesar! Morituri te salutamus Current Tank Info: 75 gal. glass, mixed reef/fish(SPS, LPS and softies), 2X150 MH w/130 watt actinic, Euro Reef RS80 Skimmer. DIY ATO w/Kalkwasser and 10 gal. DIY Fudge. DIY RODI system.

07/30/2008, 09:12 AM	#81
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	$115. Go here http://www.aquatictech.com/aquarium_lighting.html scroll about 2/3 of the way down. IceCap Metal Halide Electronic Ballasts HQI 150 watt ballast (will run any bulb) $124.95 HQI 175 watt ballast (will run any 175 watt bulb) SALE $104.95 !!! HQI 250 watt ballast (will run any 250 watt bulb) available in 120 (or 220 volt version for an additional $15.00) SALE $114.95 !!! Last edited by abulgin; 07/30/2008 at 09:37 AM.

07/30/2008, 11:47 AM	#87
alextheromanian Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Binghamton NY Posts: 1,007	REGARDING THE ICECAP BALLASTS. i have a question. i have noticed the odyssea ones have a outlet where you plug in the light...a regular grouded outlet...and then OUT of the ballasts come out reggular plugs to plug into your home standard grounded socket. question is ...does the icecap come with this standard home socket to plug your oddysea into or would i have to chop off the plugs and wire the light wires into the icecap ballast. __________________ i just cant think of any phylosophical, deep, critical thinking quotes right now. Current Tank Info: 29g Reef, 75g FOWLR

07/30/2008, 03:11 PM	#92
alextheromanian Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Binghamton NY Posts: 1,007	hah hows that silly? well granted id never compare price wise... paying for a mac is like buying hyundai for the price of an audi. thank you! __________________ i just cant think of any phylosophical, deep, critical thinking quotes right now. Current Tank Info: 29g Reef, 75g FOWLR

07/29/2008, 08:47 PM	#76
jdmcivicek9 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 39°N, -108°W AKA Somewhere in Colorado Posts: 578	the first thing i would do when you get your fixture is buy new ballasts for it...i went with 2 250w icecaps and it was an amazing difference...i will post a picture...the next thing will be to change the bulbs to phoenix 14k bulbs because i think i ended up with more like 10k bulbs instead of 14k that they claim to be... this is the fixture over my new 75 gal with the icecap ballasts and stock bulbs...

07/30/2008, 09:09 AM	#80
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	There is a place that sells them for $109--trying to find it and will post. Also, regarding the Phoenix 14,000K, it's not a true 14,000K bulb. I think it's more like 25,000K (but can't remember where I read that). People that like the Phoenix like the very blue color that it emits. If you want a "white" bulb, the Phoenix is not for you. See my post regarding the performance of the Phoenix compared to other 14,000K bulbs here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1440957

07/30/2008, 09:38 AM	#83
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	Don't know--doesn't say. Would have to call them.

07/30/2008, 09:47 AM	#84
jdmcivicek9 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 39°N, -108°W AKA Somewhere in Colorado Posts: 578	heres a picture of my ballasts...marine depot shipped them out really quick to me i think it only took 4-5 days including the day i purchased them.

07/30/2008, 11:50 AM	#89
abulgin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 2,664	See my post above--that you will need one of these: http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Sho....htm?sku=205874 This will go from the ballast socket to the fixture's cord. No chopping required.

07/30/2008, 04:59 PM	#93
jthao Super Saiyan Join Date: May 2007 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,522	I always see these aquatraders threads...... and I think to myself, should I tell them the truth or not??? it's like I don't wanna be the person to tell the kids that Santa Clause don't exist!!! Well kids.... Santa Clause don't exits!!! lol here's how it works: aquatraders lights are made by a company in china called JKS enterprise. they make electrical components etc... etc.... they also make parts and pieces for other companies. The coralife company had JKS make their lights for them, then slap on the sticker coralife. They also have JKS make more "high end" ballasts because they're charging an arm/leg for their fixture. So yes, the coralife unit comes with better ballasts/bulbs, but you're paying 3x more for just the ballasts/bulbs?? not worth it, since the ballasts/bulbs aren't even that much better than the odyssea ones. For the extra $$$ I would spend on the coralife unit, I'd just buy the odyssea one and buy higher end ballasts/bulbs (pfo/ phoenix) Hate to be the one to tell you guys these, but go look at the ballast made by catalina aquariums, coraluve, ice cap, they all look the same, especially on the inside!! I know that for a fact the coralvue and the catalina aquarium ballast are the same, I've compared them. Also all these other companies, I don't wanna say any names here, they use the same components that are from china made fixtures. The only fixtures that don't use any components from china or over seas, are units that you made yourself at home!!!! Even at that, the raw material might have come from china!! Basically I just wanna say...... if you don't mind changing out bulbs/ ballasts etc.... then this unit is perfect for you. It's a very well made unit for the price. I've owned many of these units, 24", 36", 48", and 72" mh/pc combo. will it be better than my lumenarcs with pfo hqi ballasts and soon to be radium SE bulbs, NO WAY!!!! __________________ Elos 160xl \| Profilux 3.1Nex ultimate \| BK DC200 \| (5)Mitras 6200s \|(4) Vortech MP40QD \| 3155 ATO \| Schuran CaRx \| Carbon-Doser \| Red Dragon return \| 500G Starphire FOWLR \| BK SM200 \| (6) Tunze 6105

07/30/2008, 06:05 PM	#95
phenom5 Unregistered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,096	True that a lot of the internal components of computers are the same...it's all about the OS, and Mac OS is so much better then Windows...and it ain't even close. Gaming...100% Windows machine. Everything else...Mac. But enough. This thread isn't about computers, it's about lights damnit! I wish people would quit taking this off topic...oh wait, that'd be me. Sorry. __________________ Rob Current Tank Info: DSA 155 Pro \| ATI Sunpower \| ATB 840 v2 \| Apex \| Wav

07/30/2008, 06:23 PM	#96
jdmcivicek9 Moved On Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: 39°N, -108°W AKA Somewhere in Colorado Posts: 578	all i have to say is to each his own...if i had no budget i would probably have bought a nicer name brand fixture but im not financially free YET...so i went with a less expensive yet when i had money upgradeable fixture in which i did end up upgrading the parts that were obsolete and now have a pretty decent fixture that can compete with the name brand ones...but anyway like scions slogan is "like it or loath it" haha i just happen to like it

07/30/2008, 06:26 PM	#97
alextheromanian Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Binghamton NY Posts: 1,007	phenom5 its quite alright...i guess this off topic convo is due to the fact that i have NOTHING to do and im waiting for the Odyssea lights to come in. untill then its small talk but i do intend on doing sort of a recap on the whole thing....ever since the first phonecall to the end product being placed ontop of the aqaurium+ afterthoughts. i think this would help most read about the whole "ODYSSEA PURCHASE" in one post rather than getting bits and pieces here and there. i also ENCOURAGE anyone who has the same or different light fixture but from the same COMPANY to post pictures experiences helpful constructive tips and side notes on WHERE they purchased them and wether or not they are HAPPTY or not with the way they were or if the had to UPGRADE/buy ANOTHER fixture __________________ i just cant think of any phylosophical, deep, critical thinking quotes right now. Current Tank Info: 29g Reef, 75g FOWLR

07/30/2008, 06:50 PM	#98
CoralCaps Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 217	I got to see the fixtures yesterday. They look really, really nice with a sleek lines. Wouldn't mind having one above my tank. The T5HO's were not THAT bright. I can't look into a 4x54w Nova (1 reflector), these I could without any issue. Either bad bulbs or ballasts, whichever. BUT if you are a DIY I think the halide fixtures are awesome. Ballasts are inexpensive and bulbs as well. If I did get the T5HO fixture I'd at least slap some Workhorses in there if not Icecap and change out the bulbs (personally wouldn't bother with them at all). After seeing them, I will be doing a Sunlight Supply Retrofit into a spare fixture my buddy has (it's gutted so I'll retro them into there). I think the MH/PC fixtures are certainly worth it. A friend ran a stock one above his frag tank for quite a while with no issues. But the T5HO I think you'd be better off with a Nova or something. Getting excited about your light yet? __________________ Pull his finger. I dare you.

07/30/2008, 08:40 PM	#100
agreeive?fish Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,803	Ok iam intrested in following this thread as iam starting a 29g mini reef tank( low to moderate light ) and iam currently researching lights.... my biggest thing about theese lights is they are not UL listed an some insurance companies/polocies will deny payment if a electrical fire is contributed to an electrical product that is not UL listed..I am not saying theese lights will cause a fire because i dont know anything about them other than what i have read today..i actuall stumbled onto the aqutrades web site today...i will be tagging along with great intrest..(oh the mini reef is to get the wife off my back as she wants a reef and iam a FOWLR guy)