Refugium Advice

[alextheromanian]

hello guys im concerned about the 29 g i have

i built a sump for it (my first sump) and i left a refugium area in it of about 10 g...

i have 2 inches of sand in that area right now and i was wondering if i needed more sand and i was also wondering the following things.


what kind of algae do i need? is cheato good? where should i get it and how much do you think i should pay for it.

any other critters in this refugium that should go in there?

i keep hearing of pods or shrimp of some sort but i never get a clear list of what would be best put in there and how.


any help would be greatly appreciated!

[shuguley]

You don't need sand in your fuge, you can use sand, rocks or nothing.

Everybody says.. if you have live rock, you will eventually have pods, I'm still waiting to see my first pod, I may eventually buy a bottle like this... http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...20&pCatId=2593

chaeto algae is the most reccomended on reefcentral, I couldn't find any local, you can but it online as well... http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...01&pcatid=2401

you don't need any other critters, but some people throw a few snails or hermits in there, to eat nuisance algae

[alextheromanian]

Originally posted by shuguley
You don't need sand in your fuge, you can use sand, rocks or nothing.

Everybody says.. if you have live rock, you will eventually have pods, I'm still waiting to see my first pod, I may eventually buy a bottle like this... http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...20&pCatId=2593

chaeto algae is the most reccomended on reefcentral, I couldn't find any local, you can but it online as well... http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/p...01&pcatid=2401

you don't need any other critters, but some people throw a few snails or hermits in there, to eat nuisance algae

the way its set up is:

[IMG]http://i36.*******.com/2r2yypu.jpg[/IMG]


there i fixed it rc wont allow text drawings

do you see anything wrong?
do you think i can add cheato in there?

[gogregerson]

Sand in a refugium is definitely not needed. I started out with sand in mine and found it to be nothing more then a detritus trap and nutrient sink. I much happier with a bare bottom fuge with macro.

[shuguley]

you can definitely add chaeto to the chamber with the sand.

i've got the same protein skimmer as you. The surface skimmer attachment for it may be your problem. If the skimmer is in your sump, I would remove the surface skimmer attachment, because all the water in your sump is surface water from your DT.

And to follow up on my previous post, some people do a deep sand bed in their fuge, but some people just use rock rubble. I use rock rubble. If you want a deep sand bed, you will just need to add another 3 - 5 inches of sand. But a DSB is not necessary, your setup is fine. Basically you can do whatever you want, there is no hard set rule.

[alextheromanian]

Originally posted by gogregerson
Sand in a refugium is definitely not needed. I started out with sand in mine and found it to be nothing more then a detritus trap and nutrient sink. I much happier with a bare bottom fuge with macro.

got it


i forgot to add ive ordered two 150 phosban reactors to add to this sump...one will be filled with carbon the other with gfo?

the skimmer is a prizm skimmer and i know they are junk but do you think id need a better one considering the other filtration?

[shuguley]

Originally posted by alextheromanian
got it


i forgot to add ive ordered two 150 phosban reactors to add to this sump...one will be filled with carbon the other with gfo?

the skimmer is a prizm skimmer and i know they are junk but do you think id need a better one considering the other filtration?

Prism skimmer? I'm confused,. your sig says remora skimmer

[alextheromanian]

Originally posted by shuguley
Prism skimmer? I'm confused,. your sig says remora skimmer

i apologise that lists the 75 g setup


this is ALL for a newly setup 29g with a 20 g sump


the 75 is ugly...dirty not drilled and i cut so many corners with it that im very unhappy about it. once im done with the 29 im planning on tearing down the 75 and resetting it up in a different spot with a sump and the works.

[shuguley]

ahhhh, I see.
To answer your other question on the phosban reactors.. you are correct, carbon in one, gfo in the other. Out of curiosity are you going to use one pump for both, or are you getting two pumps?

[alextheromanian]

Originally posted by shuguley
ahhhh, I see.
To answer your other question on the phosban reactors.. you are correct, carbon in one, gfo in the other. Out of curiosity are you going to use one pump for both, or are you getting two pumps?

actually i am absolutely clueless to what i should do

i do know however that i want to hook them up so that the water from one goes into the other...or atleast the spill togheder....so i guess one...i just dont know if its possible or allowed

[SleepyJ]

Chaeo is good for your fuge because it is less likely to become a nuisance like other macros. Most of your fuge hitchhikers will come in with your chaeto, especially if you get it from another reefer's established tank. As far as sand goes, either have a DSB in there or none at all. 2 inches won't do anything for you except maybe cause problems.

I'd use the remora with surface skimmer on the nano once you tear down the 75. As long as you do 10% weekly water changes on the nano, you should be fine without a skimmer. Add in the remora, and you'll be better off. Or, if you want to spend the money, get a better in-sump skimmer.

[royaldude]

Hi, If you put Chaeto in your sump, remember to light it as it does need the light to grow. as for the reactors, I read that carbon and GFO(for phosphates) need different flow. If your flow is too high I think the GFO will destroy itself when it grinds on itself as i understood, so make sure that you take that into consideration or at least confirm this before you set it up. I don't use reactors myself I am just repeating what I have read on here as i understood it.

[Roy G. Biv]

It really depends on what you want your refugium to do.

Grow pods? Nutrient export?

The basics would be live rock rubble and a ball of cheato with a light on top. Those new energy efficient lights at home depot work well, around 6500K range or "Daylight". Run the light opposite of the display tank.

Personally I think on a 29 gallon tank you wouldnt get much pod production. So buy a ball of cheato 10 bux or find it for free from a local reefer and prune it when it grows too large.

[alextheromanian]

Originally posted by Pmolan
It really depends on what you want your refugium to do.

Grow pods? Nutrient export?

The basics would be live rock rubble and a ball of cheato with a light on top. Those new energy efficient lights at home depot work well, around 6500K range or "Daylight". Run the light opposite of the display tank.

Personally I think on a 29 gallon tank you wouldnt get much pod production. So buy a ball of cheato 10 bux or find it for free from a local reefer and prune it when it grows too large.

how come there wouldnt be that much of a pod production in that size tank?

[alextheromanian]

Originally posted by royaldude
Hi, If you put Chaeto in your sump, remember to light it as it does need the light to grow. as for the reactors, I read that carbon and GFO(for phosphates) need different flow. If your flow is too high I think the GFO will destroy itself when it grinds on itself as i understood, so make sure that you take that into consideration or at least confirm this before you set it up. I don't use reactors myself I am just repeating what I have read on here as i understood it.

yeah i have read that a good way to do it is with an mj400 or 600 when they are both hooked up togheder instead of running two separate pumps but then again i read somewhere else that the media needs to tumble...and i dont know how much tumbling youd get out of a slow small pump

[filippo]

i don't mean to hijack this thread ... so some say that having sand in a refugium doesn't make a difference. however, does it make a difference if you have a BB display?

i am 90% done removing sand from my display and implementing a new sump. should i have a DSB in my refugium (10G in a 30G sump)? thanks

[tmz]

I prefer a bare bottom refugium with chaetomorpha and some red gracilaria for color and tang food..Chaetomorpha provides nice habitat for pods and is much less likely to foul you tank thean caulerpa. Sand or rubble traps too much detrius for me to clean up( a real mess when it's under macroalgae) which may feed a few pods but also fouls the system with nutrients. As for a dsb, while it will denitrify efficiently at 4 inches or deeper and maybe even a little less,sufficient live rock will take care of biofiltration without a dsb if you prefer not to have one.

[Roy G. Biv]

Originally posted by alextheromanian
how come there wouldnt be that much of a pod production in that size tank?

I dont think a 10 gallon refugium would sustain enough pods for a mandarin or a 6-line, which is the primary reason that I would want pods.

i am 90% done removing sand from my display and implementing a new sump. should i have a DSB in my refugium (10G in a 30G sump)? thanks

He mentioned a 2" sandbed earlier. I have found that there is little benifit of having less than 6" in a refugium. In a 10 gallon tank the room that 6" of sand takes up vs 6" of liverock, I feel that the live rock would win in denitrification.

[mpty]

i dunno if this makes any difference but here's what i set up like 3 weeks ago and its made a huge difference in my 70G that isn't drilled...

i was totally upset tho for awhile cuz my tank conditions were sucking before i set this up. you can read a couple stories online, anyways, here goes:

i got an an adjustable overflow box coming out of my DT, its adjustable cuz there are screws that lift or lower the overflow. this raising/lowering somehow (magically) makes the flow into my refugium go faster or slower! totally amazing. this kinda acts like a surface skimmer too (another person mentioned that already). this is what creates the siphon to my below the tank refugium set up.

the flow back up, i use a rio. simple. i added this weird pump thing that came with the overflow box, its this thing that pulls the water up (and any air bubbles) in case of a power outage, to start the siphon again once the power comes on. its attached to a lil hole on top of the siphoning box.

i was originally going to put the fuge above my tank (decided against it once i figured the lil shelf would break and i'd have hell on earth). but the cool thing was i totally figured out that even tho i bought all this stuff to set it up, all i had to do was switch around the equipment, taking the overflow out of the fuge and puttin it in the DT and the rio out of the DT and into the fuge!

anyway, the decision is yours. i think the benefit, like someone else said, depends on what you want out of a fuge. if i grew like feeder critters in my fuge and think they're gonna end up in my DT, it would be better to have above tank fuge setup. but like having chopped up pieces of pods up through a rio is fine by me for my below tank setup.

i have live sand in there right now and some live rock crumbs and like the spaghetti looking macro algae. the LFS dude was a sweetie and like gave all of this for free! then i bought a "daylight" bulb and clippy thingie with reflectors from home depot. oh yeah, and i got a 15$ mangrove tree! i found the tank in the garbage! no leaks!

i've only had it set for like 3 weeks now and there is so much lifecoming out of my DT! the water quality is amazing! tiny little snails are popping out at night, like 50-60! a peppermint shrimp that has been hiding (thought he was dead) for 4 months has come out. and my green hair algae is disappearing. the cyano-bacteria problem is gone. totally gone!

i was gonna like pack it in and kick the bucket on reefing and the refugium has absolutely saved me! i'm a believer baby. i think ever newbie like me should be told to set up a refugium from the start. i don't have a sump, or a deep sand bed, just a crummy coralife super skimmer and an eheim cannister. i'm like so ghetto but seriously, don't give up on your 75G, fuge it! anyways, good luck with yer 29-20 setup. by the way, don't bother with the two powerhead idea, its like so impossible to get them in sync. oh and i'd go with cheato, why bother with caulerpa, i dont even get what going sexual means but cheato's fine. i've already pruned my once, it like loves that home depot light. the mangrove is kinda pretty too. eventually it'll get too big (its a tree baby!) but its pretty now.

oh yeah one more thing. if you wanna look at it is also another thing to consider and that took me like awhile to decide (i'm a girl, whatcha wanna say bout it!). if you don't care how it looks and you're not planning on "displaying" it, then just get one of those plastic storage containers. some peeps believe a fuge is like a filtering swamp, equating it to like ecological principles. i decided it would be fun to set it up so i could view it at night (opposite light schedule to stabilize ph). having decided that biased my decisions from an aesthetic point of view. so i recognize that alot of the decisions which would be more beneficial for utility, i had to overide. i like sand but 5 inches for a DSB is too much.

anyways, thats what i went thru. i know people don't like me posting here but i hope that kinda helped.

oh yeah, last thing, my skimmer is HOB off my DT. i read somewhere that if you skim in your fuge, you'll just be wasting skimmering before your macro and mangrove get the nutrients. my skimmer is barely picking anything up in my main tank compared to pre-fuge days.

oh, and my tank runs pretty warm already and i found that putting the heater in my fuge heats up the fuge too much. and my live rock and live sand are in the main part of the fuge with my macro, the mangrove is in the corner a lil ways from da light so i don't burn the leaves.

- xoxompty

[tmz]

He mentioned a 2" sandbed earlier. I have found that there is little benifit of having less than 6" in a refugium. In a 10 gallon tank the room that 6" of sand takes up vs 6" of liverock, I feel that the live rock would win in denitrification.

While I prefer live rock to a dsb because the sand is in my experience more likely to accumulate detrius,I believe cubic inch for cubic inch sand will provide much more surface area than rock and thus more area for denitrifying bacteria.