PLEASE check out your intended fish purchases here first!

[Sk8r]

Probably it will compete: if your mandarin is small (they vary in adult size) and with the fuge being efficient and your 70 g, it probably can sustain both, given the wrasse is getting other foods. Wrasses are lovely fishes, but they are dangerous with small gobies and they do hunt, continually, as do the mandarin dragonets.

re the cucumber; many people keep them without issues; some people have had bad luck. Your bad luck ration is higher in your first couple of years, but if your tank is safe for the creature and it amuses you, you may want to take the chance.

Another, but safer, sand creature is the fighting conch: if you don't have any variant of plate coral, they're amusing as well, little shelled elephants tootling about sometimes with just their eyestalks above the sand, sometimes working quite hard to climb a bit of rock in their path, using their spur. I like them, at any rate.

[Jay1982]

Sk8r, what about a Lyretail Anthias in a 90 gallon?

Lightly stocked with peaceful members

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Jay1982
Sk8r, what about a Lyretail Anthias in a 90 gallon?

Lightly stocked with peaceful members

they are peaceful too-- I've had up to three in my 110gal before --with no problems.
(I only feed them twice a day--even though 3 times is recommended)

[Ken250]

Stocking suggestions with time line...

I have a 120g tank (approx. 120 lbs of LR) with a 10g fuge. I am running carbon and phosban in linked TLF reactors and an Elos 1000 skimmer.

My LR cured for 2 months and then I added my CUC
(Green Sea Hare (Dolabella auricularia), 2 emerald crabs, 4 fighting conchs, 5 red scarlet hermit crabs, 30 blue legged hermit crabs, trochus snails, astrea snails, cerith snails and margarita snails)

The CUC settled in for a month and then I added chaeto to the fuge, 4 fish and 5 LPS
(Fish: 2 percula clown fish, a swissguard basslet and a fairy solar wrasse. LPS: a frogspawn, a prism favia, a maze coral, a cynarina brain coral and a blastomussa coral).

Everyone seems to be happy, I've lost two of the fighting conchs and the largest of the red scarlet hermit crabs has eliminated 3 of the other red scarlet hermit crabs (is this normal behavior?).

The fish and LPS have been in the tank for 3 weeks now. The nitrates, nitrites, phosphate (measured via a test kit) are all 0. The ph is 8.1 during the day and 7.9 at night. CA is 475 and the KH is 8.

The algae is minimal, although I am finding some bubble algae here and there which I manually remove when I find it (will the bubble algae go over time, or is this a life long fight?!?)

I would like to stock the tank with SPS, LPS and a couple tridacna clams over the long term.

I would like to add the following:

1 metallic fox face (now)
1 naso tang (now)
2 blue chromis (1 month from now)
1 chevron tang (1 month)
1 sohal tang (2 months)
1 gobie (2 months)
1 tridacna clam (2 months)
2 bengaii cardinals (3 months)
1 tridacna clam (3 months)
5 anthias (4 months)
1 mandarin dragonet (5 months from now)

Along the way I would add some more LPS and eventually some SPS.

I've tried to do my research, but I would appreciate your thoughts on a few questions:

Would this be too many fish?
Is the order and timing appropriate?
Are they compatible with each other?
Will the bubble algae pass or will any of the fish consume it (the emerald crabs stay close to home and haven't been effective to date)?
Is the largest red scarlet hermit crab preying on the others normal behavior?

Thanks!
Ken

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Ken250


Would this be too many fish?
Is the order and timing appropriate?
Are they compatible with each other?
Will the bubble algae pass or will any of the fish consume it (the emerald crabs stay close to home and haven't been effective to date)?
Is the largest red scarlet hermit crab preying on the others normal behavior?

Thanks!
Ken

You can tell you have done some research--the order and timing is great--esp with the clams--they need a well established system

It's probabaly too many fish in light of the tangs--the Naso esp grows to be a big fish.
As the tangs grow there is more stress on the bioload for sure, but also on their ability to get along. If I fish starts to feel crowded it can become agressive when not normally that way

In my experience 5 anthias will pick at each other until you have two

Hermit crabs do that all the time and they are brutal to your snail population

You take your chances with bubble algae and emeralds--some don't touch it
You are better to remove the rocks if you can--take tweezers to the bubble to remove it at the base, quickly rinse the rock in ro water and put it back in the tank.

[Aquarist007]

This blog should help you out with your tang purchases:

FACTS ABOUT TANGS INDEX PAGE
http://www.reefcentral.com/wp/?p=341

[Ken250]

Capn, thanks for your help.

I'm still quite undecided about the tangs... when I originally thought about a reef tank, I always pictured it with tangs... but I might stay with smaller fish and keep the bioload lighter... perhaps adding a few more wrasses.

How does this look?

1 metallic fox face (now)
2 blue chromis (now)
1 mystery wrass (1 month)
1 gobie (1 month)
1 tridacna clam (2 months)
1 wrasse scotts fairy (2 months)
2 bengaii cardinals (3 months)
1 tridacna clam (3 months)
2 anthias (4 months)
1 mandarin dragonet (5 months from now)

My LR is all large pieces... removing them from the tank would be difficult and perhaps dangerous for some of the inhabitants. Looks like the fight will continue. Do the foxface ever dine on bubble algae?

Ken

[Jay1982]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
they are peaceful too-- I've had up to three in my 110gal before --with no problems.
(I only feed them twice a day--even though 3 times is recommended)

nice, thanks capn! Are most Anthias mild mannered?

[Don Z]

Sk8r great thread and very helpful. and informative. I might as well chime in and ask on this next intended purchase - a Tomini Tang.

I have a 135g DT w/40gal combined sump/refug/return tank baffled off. 150# Live rock, 2"-2.5" Aragonite Seafloor Special substrate. A Deltac APF600 skimmer, 2 Korialla 4's, Eheim 1262 return (600gph return flow (200g/hr diverted to refuge), 3000gph total flow) , 240Watts of retro T5's w/Icecap 660. 4" DSB in Fuge w/basketball size ball of Chaeto. Lots of pods, etc.

I've slowly added over the last 7 months after the initial cycle the following inhabitants:

1 - Small zoa frag - a month ago
1 - Small Branching Candycane - a month and a half ago
1 - Small Hammerhead - a month ago
200 - snails various types - early after initial cycle
1 - Lawnmower Blenny - 3 months ago
1- Royal Gramma - 2nd fish 5 months ago
2 - Purple Firefish - 1st fish - 6 months ago
2- True Perc's - 4 fish - 2 months ago
1 - 6 Line Wrasse - 3rd fish - 4 months ago

Parms stay steady at:
Temp 79-82 (3 degree swing night to day)
SG =1.025
Ph = 8.2
Ammonia = 0
N02 = 0
N03 = 0
P04 = 0
Mg = 1200
Ca = 430
KH = 9 dKH

Just set up a BB 30gal QT with a Mag 350 and stabilizing it with water from the DT. Running carbon and a seasoned polysock from the sump in the Mag. I would like to start looking for a Tomini to add to quarantine before introducing it in to the DT. Future inhabitants will include (slowly) more corals (LPS, softies, and zoa's, etc.) and maybe a Flame Angel or Coral Beauty down the road to finish the fish stocking off. But for now looking for a Tomini to help graze on some macro in the DT. Also getting ready to re-energize my snail population. Oh, and just ordered two TLF reactors, one for carbon and one for phosban for the DT and adding filter sock to the skimmer input section (preventative measures) Even though my phosphates are undectable I know I still have some due to the small pathces of macro present in the DT.

Wow lots of info for adding one fish... Think adding the Tomini will be fine? I can't find any down sides in the reading and research I've seen so far on this little guy.

Thanks

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Jay1982
nice, thanks capn! Are most Anthias mild mannered?

yes towards other fish but not necessarily towards themselves

[Aquarist007]

here is a great thread on anthias--lots of pics besides good information:

http://www.reefcentral.com/wp/?p=293

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Don Z
Sk8r great thread and very helpful. and informative. I might as well chime in and ask on this next intended purchase - a Tomini Tang.

I have a 135g DT w/40gal combined sump/refug/return tank baffled off. 150# Live rock, 2"-2.5" Aragonite Seafloor Special substrate. A Deltac APF600 skimmer, 2 Korialla 4's, Eheim 1262 return (600gph return flow (200g/hr diverted to refuge), 3000gph total flow) , 240Watts of retro T5's w/Icecap 660. 4" DSB in Fuge w/basketball size ball of Chaeto. Lots of pods, etc.

I've slowly added over the last 7 months after the initial cycle the following inhabitants:

1 - Small zoa frag - a month ago
1 - Small Branching Candycane - a month and a half ago
1 - Small Hammerhead - a month ago
200 - snails various types - early after initial cycle
1 - Lawnmower Blenny - 3 months ago
1- Royal Gramma - 2nd fish 5 months ago
2 - Purple Firefish - 1st fish - 6 months ago
2- True Perc's - 4 fish - 2 months ago
1 - 6 Line Wrasse - 3rd fish - 4 months ago

Parms stay steady at:
Temp 79-82 (3 degree swing night to day)
SG =1.025
Ph = 8.2
Ammonia = 0
N02 = 0
N03 = 0
P04 = 0
Mg = 1200
Ca = 430
KH = 9 dKH

Just set up a BB 30gal QT with a Mag 350 and stabilizing it with water from the DT. Running carbon and a seasoned polysock from the sump in the Mag. I would like to start looking for a Tomini to add to quarantine before introducing it in to the DT. Future inhabitants will include (slowly) more corals (LPS, softies, and zoa's, etc.) and maybe a Flame Angel or Coral Beauty down the road to finish the fish stocking off. But for now looking for a Tomini to help graze on some macro in the DT. Also getting ready to re-energize my snail population. Oh, and just ordered two TLF reactors, one for carbon and one for phosban for the DT and adding filter sock to the skimmer input section (preventative measures) Even though my phosphates are undectable I know I still have some due to the small pathces of macro present in the DT.

Wow lots of info for adding one fish... Think adding the Tomini will be fine? I can't find any down sides in the reading and research I've seen so far on this little guy.

Thanks

your right on top of things year--I see no problem with adding the Tomini tang--nice choice since it is on the small side for tangs(9 inches I believe as an adult)

Re water chemistry:
Your parameters are excellent but-----
I would raise the magnesium level to 1300 ppm--that is the level close to sea water which holds a level of around 400ppm calcium.

[Megistos]

I currently have a 72 gallon bow front with a 20 gallon sump that will eventually turn into a refugium. It is home to 4 Chromis, a Blue Velvet Damsel, 3 Blue Devil Damsels, a Yellow Tang, and a White-Spotted Hermit Crab.

I suspect the crab is the reason I have 4 Chromis rather than the 5 I originally bought, though after reading this thread, it is possible that the crab merely cleaned up the remains after the Chromis decided 4 of their kind is enough. The Yellow Tang and Blue Devils were acquired sort of by accident and for free- I will probably take the tang into my LFS and try to get something more in line with my tastes.

Basically, I really like my hermit crab (species name: Dardanus megistos). He's very active and very pretty. However, he's also apparently very predatory - reading the WetWebMedia FAQs pertaining to this species, the universal advice is "get rid of it ASAP."

I don't plan to do that. He might go in his own (small) tank eventually, but I would like to know what kinds of fish he could potentially be compatible with. Right now, he is about 3-4" across and will probably get about twice that size.

My preferences in fish tend towards morays (I have my eyes on a Fimbriated Moray or something similar, maybe a Zebra), triggerfish (Blue Throat, Clown, Niger, Sargassum if I could find one), puffers (Spiny Box, Stars and Stripes), Lionfish (Radiata, Russell's), and similar things.

If any of those, or any other interesting fish would be compatible with this hermit, please let me know.

I will also be setting up a 105 gallon in the near future. It is possible that it will become a fish-dominated tank while the 72 will turn into a reef, but that is further into the future than I can plan for right now.

[Sk8r]

I would say let the hermit be in the sump/fuge. He'll like it, and you can give him special treats down there.

Knowing the fish involved, I really think he's innocent of piscicide: I think the killer was another chromis. Or several of them. But probably your crab was already dreaming of a fish sandwich...I would not, indeed, trust that fellow with any fish that sleeps where he can reach it. Fuge is a good place. He can keep it clean all on his own, and he won't out-eat the algae growth.

You might also manage a second, display fuge, designed to be seen: plumbing one just involves bulkheads and hose to your main tank.

[schoolreefer]

hi! I'll take the advice!

110 gallon

about 80 lbs of live rock

I want to get a harlequin tusk

[schoolreefer]

currently no fish in there!

Well, a damsel, but i'm hoping to get him out soon!

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by schoolreefer
currently no fish in there!

Well, a damsel, but i'm hoping to get him out soon!

Try to get the damsel out first---a real pain to do it later

[Jay1982]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
yes towards other fish but not necessarily towards themselves

Phew, I was worried it would harrass my O. Clowns or my yellowed headed sleeper goby.

Thanks a bunch

[13threefmaniac]

I'm in the planning stages of a 48 X 36 X 24 in wall tank. The system will end up having a total volume of about 350 - 400 gallons (sump, fuge, macro grow out area and frag tank). The display will have a SSB (fine aragonite) and there are plans to incorporate a DSB into the system. The tank will be an LPS dominated reef with a few large SPS colonies. Lighting will consist of 1 X 250W halide and one 6-bulb ATI Powermodule (seems a little on the low side. Reasoning behind this is to create sheltered/dimly lit areas in the tank). The system will have a reeflo250 as the skimmer, a calcium reactor and i am toying with the idea of getting an ozone generator(further research required).

My fish/invert list

X 12/15 - Glass Cardinals
X 5 - Ignitus Anthias or Lyretails
X 2 - Rhomboids or Flames
X 2 - Potters Angel
X 2 - Royal Gramma or Black Cap Basslet
X 2 - Blood Shrimp
X 2 - Cleaner Shrimp
Clean up crew (assorted snails and hermit crabs)

I might skip adding the rhomboids/flames and opt for a Mystery Wrasses(current favorite fish) instead. Problem is, the hours spent going through the reef fishes forum has led me to the conclusion that they will eventually devour my shrimp. I can't imagine a tank without shrimp in it.

By my calculations, i should have room for a few more fish should i decide to add any down the road. I would welcome any input from the more experienced hands on this forum regarding my proposed stock list. Thanks in advance

[Sk8r]

Should be a real pretty tank. I'd say if you really love shrimp, it's going to turn you against that fish when he finally turns to his favorite food. You might try some gobies of the bright and colorful persuasion: they're cryptic, in generally, but they present very little bioload, are interesting personalities, and will come out if they don't feel threatened. Another possible addition would be a pair of the smaller jawfish like the pearly.

[ReefEnabler]

Another great thread Sk8r

I'll have a go!

My tank is a "220" if you use the outside dimensions (72x24x30) and don't subtract the sandbed.... but realistically its a more like a 180 inside. However total system volume is around 400 gallons.


Here's a list of fish I want to keep eventually:


Powder Brown Tang (white cheek.... actually my favorite tang)
Naso Tang
Achilles Tang (maybe)

Scotts Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus scottorum)
2x Tamarin Wrasse

Lyretail Anthias, 1 male and ~5 females.

School of BlueGreen Chromis (7 or so)

Scarus Quoyi (quoy's parrotfish) this is a BIG maybe and big eventually... I dont know much about this fish. Any info appreciated.

2x Percula Clown

Green Mandarin

Randalli Pistol Shrimp (Alpheus Randalli)
Yashia Goby (Stonogobiops yasha)

Diamond Watchman Goby (Valencienna puellaris)

Starry Blenny (Salarias ramosus)


Those are the basics I've had in mind for a while. Anything wrong with it?

[13threefmaniac]

Whoa..fast reply. I've read that its pretty much hit and miss with the mystery and shrimp. Ideally the mystery would be the centerpiece of the tank. Would it help if the mystery(2") was added as the last fish and the shrimp pairs were larger and already established in the system?
About the gobies, i was contemplating a Yasha Haze Shrimp Goby/Candycane Pistol combo and a BlueSpot Jawfish (more research required- read that they prefer cooler water ala the Catalina Goby). The final fish would be a Mandarin or two (after the tank has matured).
Finally,which species of anthias would you recommend between the Ignitus and the Lyretails?

[13threefmaniac]

Originally posted by RyanBrucks
Another great thread Sk8r

I'll have a go!

My tank is a "220" if you use the outside dimensions (72x24x30) and don't subtract the sandbed.... but realistically its a more like a 180 inside. However total system volume is around 400 gallons.


Here's a list of fish I want to keep eventually:


Powder Brown Tang (white cheek.... actually my favorite tang)
Naso Tang
Achilles Tang (maybe)

Scotts Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus scottorum)
2x Tamarin Wrasse

Lyretail Anthias, 1 male and ~5 females.

School of BlueGreen Chromis (7 or so)

Scarus Quoyi (quoy's parrotfish) this is a BIG maybe and big eventually... I dont know much about this fish. Any info appreciated.

2x Percula Clown

Green Mandarin

Randalli Pistol Shrimp (Alpheus Randalli)
Yashia Goby (Stonogobiops yasha)

Diamond Watchman Goby (Valencienna puellaris)

Starry Blenny (Salarias ramosus)


Those are the basics I've had in mind for a while. Anything wrong with it?

I shall try and contribute to the thread.
I would think that the Naso would eventually outgrow that tank as will the Archilles. I have no experience with the Powder brown so i shall not comment. The green Chromis may play nice, or they may kill each other off til only 1 or 2 remain. Seeing that you have a sandbed, the Diamond Goby should do fine initially, but in the long run it will strip it(the sandbed) of all beneficial fauna and will eventually starve to death if it refuses frozen food/flakes/pellets. The starry blenny would pose a problem if you plan to keep SPS as they feed on SPS coral polyps, IME.

[CrazyCohiba]

Can some one probably tell me the name of this fish. I think its some tyoe of Goby, but not sure. I have seen a video of it and it sucks up sand from its mouth and looks like it spits it out of his/her gills. Great sand cleaner I'm thinking.
Thanks in advance.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by 13threefmaniac
I'm in the planning stages of a 48 X 36 X 24 in wall tank. The system will end up having a total volume of about 350 - 400 gallons (sump, fuge, macro grow out area and frag tank). The display will have a SSB (fine aragonite) and there are plans to incorporate a DSB into the system. The tank will be an LPS dominated reef with a few large SPS colonies. Lighting will consist of 1 X 250W halide and one 6-bulb ATI Powermodule (seems a little on the low side. Reasoning behind this is to create sheltered/dimly lit areas in the tank). The system will have a reeflo250 as the skimmer, a calcium reactor and i am toying with the idea of getting an ozone generator(further research required).

I am not trying to be critical here but you maybe should reconsider using a super fine argonite in your display tank.
For all practical reasons sugar argonite is best used in conjunction with a deep sand bed. And the trend is to run the dsb remotely as in another dedicated fuge.
That way you get all the benifits of nitrogen reduction and it is easy to clean and or doesn't cause problems down the line releasing gases ect back into the display tank..
"Many" of our fish and inverts that inhabit the substrate tend to prefer a medium grade argonite and if they start burrowing in the sugar size they can make a heck of a mess/sand storm.