Getting in to the Fish Store Business

Aeolius · 09/10/2008, 11:56 AM

You see the ads on eBay all the time; â€œaquarium store for sale: everything includedâ€. Local fish stores seem open and close with regularity. What would compel one to enter the aquarium trade? How can one compete with the internet?

I admit that, as I drive around town, Iâ€™m always looking at businesses and buildings for sale. â€œThat would be a great place for an aquarium storeâ€ Iâ€™d say. My town has itâ€™s share of the â€œbig boysâ€ like PetSmart and PetCo. Most of the local pet stores have aquariums, more than a handful with saltwater tanks. There are also few dedicated fish stores, one of which that has been in business for over 25 years.

And yet I always wonder to myself, what if the larger store was to sell out? What if I could arrange for a handful of investors and knowledgeable enthusiasts to assist me in the endeavor? How could I make it work?

Put on your thinking caps. Fire up your imaginations. What would you do?

Barney_Googles · 09/10/2008, 12:00 PM

I would continue to enjoy my reef tank and leave the entrepenuerial risks and hardships to those willing to eat Raman for 3-5 years before becoming profitable.

jiperalta · 09/10/2008, 12:00 PM

Is Aquamain still in business? i used to drive over from wake. but it seems like a smaller, reef-centered store could compete with them

Aeolius · 09/10/2008, 12:04 PM

As a hypothetical, since you are familiar with the territory, assume that the store selling out had a similar history and customer base as Aquamains.

jiperalta · 09/10/2008, 01:34 PM

haven't lived in the triad for a couple of decades (from nc) and i don't know what the competition would be. however, i don't remember there being a store in the triad with a reef focus.

if you were willing to tank set-up and maintenance along with a reef store, i think it might work. there are enough restaurants, law firms and businesses to support a nice store, IMO

pex · 09/10/2008, 02:39 PM

Personally I can't figure out how a LFS can even make a profit these days. Consider the cost of rent for the building, cost of electricity (which continues to rise), cost for employees, cost to initially set-up the store with tanks and equipment, cost to buy the livestock which will probably stay at the store for a minute before selling, etc, etc....that's a lot of overhead. Just doesn't seem profitable to me. I think it might actually make the "hobby" part of it not much fun anymore.

Kannin · 09/10/2008, 02:43 PM

And your only loyal customers are too new to know about forums, online stores and frag swaps.

Phillybean · 09/10/2008, 03:26 PM

The best way IMO is to run it out of your house/basement/fish house.

There are three stores I go to here. One is a general small Pet Store with 6 tanks.
One is run out of a basement where schedule viewing and the other has a 15x25 building in his backyard.

My plan would be to have six 40 gallon breeders tanks in the basement for fish.
Three frag tanks (one for SPS, one for LPS and one for softies, zoas etc.).
One large, nice display/showcase tank, where most items would be for sale, only costly. Host corals would be shown here. This would be 300 gallons up.
A 125 gallon display fuge.
400 gallon + sump
Small dry goods section

Hours would be 4 days a week, evening hours and on Saturday's. Appointments could be made for other times.

I'd also make sure there is a local club, offer club discounts, host club meetings and workshops. Selling online would also come into play, however only live stock. Equipment would be available, but by pre-pay and order only.

Can you tell I've thought of this before

Purple Haze · 09/10/2008, 03:44 PM

^Sounds like a good plan. However, would you run the coral tanks into a common sump or as three separate systems?

Laddy · 09/10/2008, 04:09 PM

Can you legally run a retail store out of your house in Canada?

I look at the LFS owners I see, and normally look at this over-worked person with salt stains on his shirt, and a generally ticked off disposition and think "there was a time when he once enjoyed this hobby." That was before he had to monetize his debt for the first five years, worry about some 16 yr old showing up for work on saturday, and probably hasn't taken a vacation in years. If I won the lotto, maybe, but not seeded with my own money--I just don't know how they survive even with markup on dry goods.

David - Miami · 09/10/2008, 06:02 PM

I have been thinking the same thing lately, but unfortunately I am too nervous about the cashflow as well so far.
I believe that volume is the answer to all. Impulse buying will improve the cashflow. Put all of your high margin items by the cash register and hope for the best. Everyone loves advice. If you can make people comfortable, maybe even have them hang out during the day like a lounge. It is like a clubhouse that sells advice and supplies. I believe something like that may set it apart from the rest. I also believe that you need to stock "used" tanks. I think a lot of walk in business will not want the "cycle" waiting period. If you can serve that niche (with service contracts as well) it may work. Good luck if you decide to do it though.

Phillybean · 09/10/2008, 06:06 PM

I would have the frag tank on the same sump.

Unless your in a Strata of some kind, there are no rules in Kelowna anyway from having you run a small retail store out of your home.

snorvich · 09/10/2008, 06:15 PM

Well the aquarium technical side of the business is almost irrelevant. The business model for a brick and mortar LFS simply does not work. It is ALL about break even points, margins, overhead, profit contribution, etc. It is not about aquariums, fish, or corals.

The best way to make a small fortune in this industry is to start with a LARGE fortune. I consult with two businesses in this industry; if you do not have a substantial maintenance practice, you will go broke. Quickly.

In any case, we are about to go into a period with shrinking disposable incomes; do you want to start a business in that economic environment?

Aeolius · 09/10/2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snorvich
It is ALL about break even points, margins, overhead, profit contribution, etc. It is not about aquariums, fish, or corals... In any case, we are about to go into a period with shrinking disposable incomes; do you want to start a business in that economic environment?

And that is the bottom line that tends to keep me from wanting to investigate such a venture further.

We can all dream about running seminars, organizing clubs, initiating frag swaps, visiting schools, and sponsoring areas at the local museum/science center. But at the end of the day, a profit must be earned.

I agree with the consensus; I don't see how they do it either.

David - Miami · 09/10/2008, 06:44 PM

I have been thinking the same thing lately, but unfortunately I am too nervous about the cashflow as well so far.
I believe that volume is the answer to all. Impulse buying will improve the cashflow. Put all of your high margin items by the cash register and hope for the best. Everyone loves advice. If you can make people comfortable, maybe even have them hang out during the day like a lounge. It is like a clubhouse that sells advice and supplies. I believe something like that may set it apart from the rest. I also believe that you need to stock "used" tanks. I think a lot of walk in business will not want the "cycle" waiting period. If you can serve that niche (with service contracts as well) it may work. Good luck if you decide to do it though.

SHOmuchFUN · 09/10/2008, 06:49 PM

Only way I see it being profitable is selling your time as a service after you sell a setup.

Enter a contract to maintain the tanks/setups you sell and offer some insurance against dying livestock (if you do the maintenance).

It may be more profitable this way, but at the expense of all your free time.

Macimage · 09/10/2008, 09:24 PM

One of our long time RC S. Calif. members set up a reef store last year. It is just wonderful with high end lighting, good & great quality equipment at mail order prices, rare corals, beginner corals, healthy fish & corals, sparkling clean tanks, couches for relaxing, great prices, wonderful advice, etc.

Here is the link to his website. You may enjoy reading about his philosophy and goals with the store:

http://www.amazingaquariumsandreefs.com/

Joyce

RyanMcLaughlin · 09/10/2008, 10:40 PM

Talking to the lfs owner where I go he said that business is pretty slow lately but the store used to pull in 45000 - 60000 bucks a month. About 30000 of that was profit.

Funky_Fish14 · 09/11/2008, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laddy
Can you legally run a retail store out of your house in Canada?

Why are some Americans so ignorant? Do you think we have nothing at all, all the restrictions in the world, and live in igloos? Ofcourse you can!
Can you legally own a skidoo(snowmobile) in the United States?

ludnix · 09/11/2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Funky_Fish14
Why are some Americans so ignorant? Do you think we have nothing at all, all the restrictions in the world, and live in igloos? Ofcourse you can!
Can you legally own a skidoo(snowmobile) in the United States?

You can't do it everywhere in the United States, but why would he know the details of Canadian zoning laws anyways?

boxfishpooalot · 09/11/2008, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Funky_Fish14
Why are some Americans so ignorant? Do you think we have nothing at all, all the restrictions in the world, and live in igloos? Ofcourse you can!
Can you legally own a skidoo(snowmobile) in the United States?

I don't think he meant it like you think. Even so, do you think there is ignorant Canadians?

On subject, I think opening an aquarium store would be awesome! However, if I had a choice, food or clothing would be more profitable and stable imo. Perhaps a restaurant with an aquarium scene.

pex · 09/11/2008, 05:15 AM

I look at the LFS owners I see, and normally look at this over-worked person with salt stains on his shirt, and a generally ticked off disposition and think "there was a time when he once enjoyed this hobby."

You hit the nail on the head with that.

greenmonkey51 · 09/11/2008, 06:21 AM

The basement idea is a way better idea. If you can get in good with the clubs, that will minimize any advertising you have to do for the general public. There's a guy around here that sells freshwater out of his basement and he doesn't make much on any item, but enough that he gets to keep a lot of cool things and it pays for his hobby.

Phillybean · 09/11/2008, 08:56 AM

I think it's a different market in Canada compared to the US.

There isn't a single large frag/coral retailer in Canada. All of them are small and run out of the persons home. They are also more expensive then the US.

Also, I don't think it was "ignorant" to ask about zoning. It can vary from city to city in some cases. And I'll have you know that a warm fish tank would melt the igloo so asking if we have a tank in our Igloo is just silly. We only use ours for camping at the lake during the summer

Diatome · 09/11/2008, 08:58 AM

Basement to open store is a way to go. You do have to look at zoning laws and neighborhood associations and all that good stuff. Licensing for livestock, in some states, and so on. It can be a hastle, especially when tax time rolls around. That's why I have known some people to buy existing stores, just to get around the hassles. But they did know the business first and didn;t just jump in cold turkey.

09/10/2008, 11:56 AM	#1
Aeolius Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Summerfield NC Posts: 94	Getting in to the Fish Store Business You see the ads on eBay all the time; â€œaquarium store for sale: everything includedâ€. Local fish stores seem open and close with regularity. What would compel one to enter the aquarium trade? How can one compete with the internet? I admit that, as I drive around town, Iâ€™m always looking at businesses and buildings for sale. â€œThat would be a great place for an aquarium storeâ€ Iâ€™d say. My town has itâ€™s share of the â€œbig boysâ€ like PetSmart and PetCo. Most of the local pet stores have aquariums, more than a handful with saltwater tanks. There are also few dedicated fish stores, one of which that has been in business for over 25 years. And yet I always wonder to myself, what if the larger store was to sell out? What if I could arrange for a handful of investors and knowledgeable enthusiasts to assist me in the endeavor? How could I make it work? Put on your thinking caps. Fire up your imaginations. What would you do?

09/10/2008, 12:00 PM	#2
Barney_Googles Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 37	I would continue to enjoy my reef tank and leave the entrepenuerial risks and hardships to those willing to eat Raman for 3-5 years before becoming profitable. __________________ 33 Gallon Long Reef Soft Coral Tank Current Tank Info: 33 Long Reef Aquarium

09/10/2008, 12:04 PM	#4
Aeolius Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Summerfield NC Posts: 94	As a hypothetical, since you are familiar with the territory, assume that the store selling out had a similar history and customer base as Aquamains. Last edited by Aeolius; 09/10/2008 at 12:09 PM.

09/10/2008, 02:39 PM	#6
pex Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 167	Personally I can't figure out how a LFS can even make a profit these days. Consider the cost of rent for the building, cost of electricity (which continues to rise), cost for employees, cost to initially set-up the store with tanks and equipment, cost to buy the livestock which will probably stay at the store for a minute before selling, etc, etc....that's a lot of overhead. Just doesn't seem profitable to me. I think it might actually make the "hobby" part of it not much fun anymore. __________________ Money can't buy happiness, but it's a damn good down payment! Current Tank Info: 92 display, 54 Fuge , 45 sump, 36 frag, 2 x 400w 14,000K MH, 1 x 150w 10,000k MH, 6 x 18w T5...in the works

09/10/2008, 02:43 PM	#7
Kannin Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fall City, WA Posts: 1,538	And your only loyal customers are too new to know about forums, online stores and frag swaps. __________________ I used to target feed mojanos... until I found out that they weren't baby bubble tips.

09/10/2008, 12:00 PM	#3
jiperalta Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: coolidge, ga Posts: 165	Is Aquamain still in business? i used to drive over from wake. but it seems like a smaller, reef-centered store could compete with them

09/10/2008, 01:34 PM	#5
jiperalta Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: coolidge, ga Posts: 165	haven't lived in the triad for a couple of decades (from nc) and i don't know what the competition would be. however, i don't remember there being a store in the triad with a reef focus. if you were willing to tank set-up and maintenance along with a reef store, i think it might work. there are enough restaurants, law firms and businesses to support a nice store, IMO

09/10/2008, 03:26 PM	#8
Phillybean Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kelowna B.C. Posts: 610	The best way IMO is to run it out of your house/basement/fish house. There are three stores I go to here. One is a general small Pet Store with 6 tanks. One is run out of a basement where schedule viewing and the other has a 15x25 building in his backyard. My plan would be to have six 40 gallon breeders tanks in the basement for fish. Three frag tanks (one for SPS, one for LPS and one for softies, zoas etc.). One large, nice display/showcase tank, where most items would be for sale, only costly. Host corals would be shown here. This would be 300 gallons up. A 125 gallon display fuge. 400 gallon + sump Small dry goods section Hours would be 4 days a week, evening hours and on Saturday's. Appointments could be made for other times. I'd also make sure there is a local club, offer club discounts, host club meetings and workshops. Selling online would also come into play, however only live stock. Equipment would be available, but by pre-pay and order only. Can you tell I've thought of this before __________________ It's not how much is costs that matters, it's how much you told your wife it costs!

09/10/2008, 03:44 PM	#9
Purple Haze Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: TX Posts: 1,156	^Sounds like a good plan. However, would you run the coral tanks into a common sump or as three separate systems?

09/10/2008, 04:09 PM	#10
Laddy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Standing Tall on the Quarterdeck Posts: 1,001	Can you legally run a retail store out of your house in Canada? I look at the LFS owners I see, and normally look at this over-worked person with salt stains on his shirt, and a generally ticked off disposition and think "there was a time when he once enjoyed this hobby." That was before he had to monetize his debt for the first five years, worry about some 16 yr old showing up for work on saturday, and probably hasn't taken a vacation in years. If I won the lotto, maybe, but not seeded with my own money--I just don't know how they survive even with markup on dry goods. __________________ James Hobbies: I enjoy moving water from point A, to point B, back to point A WANTED: True ATL Appleberry Palawanensis Frag, PM me. Current Tank Info: Current Build: 180 Reef; 55 holding tank

09/10/2008, 06:02 PM	#11
David - Miami Aquanot! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Falls Church, VA Posts: 661	I have been thinking the same thing lately, but unfortunately I am too nervous about the cashflow as well so far. I believe that volume is the answer to all. Impulse buying will improve the cashflow. Put all of your high margin items by the cash register and hope for the best. Everyone loves advice. If you can make people comfortable, maybe even have them hang out during the day like a lounge. It is like a clubhouse that sells advice and supplies. I believe something like that may set it apart from the rest. I also believe that you need to stock "used" tanks. I think a lot of walk in business will not want the "cycle" waiting period. If you can serve that niche (with service contracts as well) it may work. Good luck if you decide to do it though. __________________ Whatever Happens...Happens!

09/10/2008, 06:06 PM	#12
Phillybean Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kelowna B.C. Posts: 610	I would have the frag tank on the same sump. Unless your in a Strata of some kind, there are no rules in Kelowna anyway from having you run a small retail store out of your home. __________________ It's not how much is costs that matters, it's how much you told your wife it costs!

09/10/2008, 06:15 PM	#13
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	Well the aquarium technical side of the business is almost irrelevant. The business model for a brick and mortar LFS simply does not work. It is ALL about break even points, margins, overhead, profit contribution, etc. It is not about aquariums, fish, or corals. The best way to make a small fortune in this industry is to start with a LARGE fortune. I consult with two businesses in this industry; if you do not have a substantial maintenance practice, you will go broke. Quickly. In any case, we are about to go into a period with shrinking disposable incomes; do you want to start a business in that economic environment? __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

09/10/2008, 06:44 PM	#15
David - Miami Aquanot! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Falls Church, VA Posts: 661	I have been thinking the same thing lately, but unfortunately I am too nervous about the cashflow as well so far. I believe that volume is the answer to all. Impulse buying will improve the cashflow. Put all of your high margin items by the cash register and hope for the best. Everyone loves advice. If you can make people comfortable, maybe even have them hang out during the day like a lounge. It is like a clubhouse that sells advice and supplies. I believe something like that may set it apart from the rest. I also believe that you need to stock "used" tanks. I think a lot of walk in business will not want the "cycle" waiting period. If you can serve that niche (with service contracts as well) it may work. Good luck if you decide to do it though. __________________ Whatever Happens...Happens!

09/10/2008, 06:49 PM	#16
SHOmuchFUN Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Vermont Posts: 4,461	Only way I see it being profitable is selling your time as a service after you sell a setup. Enter a contract to maintain the tanks/setups you sell and offer some insurance against dying livestock (if you do the maintenance). It may be more profitable this way, but at the expense of all your free time. __________________ Erik Engstrom President, Vermont Marine Aquarists. Current Tank Info: Custom 180gal, 6x80w ATI T-5s, (2) Tunze 6025, Vortec MP40w, MSX200 w/ red demon, controlled by AcJR.

09/10/2008, 09:24 PM	#17
Macimage Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Quartz Hill Posts: 4,078	One of our long time RC S. Calif. members set up a reef store last year. It is just wonderful with high end lighting, good & great quality equipment at mail order prices, rare corals, beginner corals, healthy fish & corals, sparkling clean tanks, couches for relaxing, great prices, wonderful advice, etc. Here is the link to his website. You may enjoy reading about his philosophy and goals with the store: http://www.amazingaquariumsandreefs.com/ Joyce

09/10/2008, 10:40 PM	#18
RyanMcLaughlin Moved On Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Anaheim Posts: 982	Talking to the lfs owner where I go he said that business is pretty slow lately but the store used to pull in 45000 - 60000 bucks a month. About 30000 of that was profit.

09/11/2008, 05:15 AM	#22
pex Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 167	I look at the LFS owners I see, and normally look at this over-worked person with salt stains on his shirt, and a generally ticked off disposition and think "there was a time when he once enjoyed this hobby." You hit the nail on the head with that. __________________ Money can't buy happiness, but it's a damn good down payment! Current Tank Info: 92 display, 54 Fuge , 45 sump, 36 frag, 2 x 400w 14,000K MH, 1 x 150w 10,000k MH, 6 x 18w T5...in the works

09/11/2008, 06:21 AM	#23
greenmonkey51 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,092	The basement idea is a way better idea. If you can get in good with the clubs, that will minimize any advertising you have to do for the general public. There's a guy around here that sells freshwater out of his basement and he doesn't make much on any item, but enough that he gets to keep a lot of cool things and it pays for his hobby.

09/11/2008, 08:56 AM	#24
Phillybean Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kelowna B.C. Posts: 610	I think it's a different market in Canada compared to the US. There isn't a single large frag/coral retailer in Canada. All of them are small and run out of the persons home. They are also more expensive then the US. Also, I don't think it was "ignorant" to ask about zoning. It can vary from city to city in some cases. And I'll have you know that a warm fish tank would melt the igloo so asking if we have a tank in our Igloo is just silly. We only use ours for camping at the lake during the summer __________________ It's not how much is costs that matters, it's how much you told your wife it costs!

09/11/2008, 08:58 AM	#25
Diatome Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gainesville, Florida Posts: 215	Basement to open store is a way to go. You do have to look at zoning laws and neighborhood associations and all that good stuff. Licensing for livestock, in some states, and so on. It can be a hastle, especially when tax time rolls around. That's why I have known some people to buy existing stores, just to get around the hassles. But they did know the business first and didn;t just jump in cold turkey.