Did I Just waste $2800?? Solaris I5

[tufacody]

Taylor- it is my belief that there is absolutely nothing T5 can do that the Solaris I series can't do better.

Look, if you want ONLY the best coral growth you can get, go MH. I have a MH system and I like it fine. But the fact is T5 is a popular choice because not everybody wants to go halide, for various reasons. The Solaris is just another option that supports corals very well. It just has more advantages for a larger mixed reef that made it more attractive to me.

[Garage1217]

Personally over a t5ho setup or even a very nice MH setup... It would NEVER be worth it to me to buy a $2800 light. Guess you need to ask yourself the same question.

Like others have said, my corals look stunning, I have digital timers for daylight, dusk and dawn effects & can guarantee my corals do not know what cloud cover is or anything like that *LOL*.

Anyways I personally think you could have spent the money in better ways, but that is just my opinion. It is your cash after all

[skey44]

I have been t5 over halide for a few years now... ati powermodule. you got swreeweeeed. return it.

[James77]

I'd return the LED fixture and get an ATI 8 or 10 bulb Powermodule.

[tufacody]

then u aint doing the math garage

[Garage1217]

My math is perfect and according to the Solaris website and their own calculator *LOL* It would take me 303 months over my current setup to pay for the 48" solaris with the $7.77 per month savings which includes my MH replacement bulbs and all areas filled out on the form. That is NOT including the parts and labor for any repairs the solaris would need in that 25 years of use in which led tech will be so far along, the solaris will be like an old junk 65W light bulb.

I think I will pass and stick with my outer orbit that I paid around $400 shipped for new / A stock refurb from Current usa. Much more cost effective choice and my corals are simply stunning and healthy.

I do agree it is a nice light with uber features but led tech has a ways to go and a much cheaper price tag on the way so I will hold out a few years personally. I would pay $1000 for a good solid unit, but NEVER $2800.

[jamesdawson]

If you want LED, wait 2-3 years and LED is likely to cost 1/2 or less then what it does now from what I have read. PAR also seems to be an issue with the current crop of LED fixtures and that is also likely to improve a lot over the next few years.

Your SolarFlare is one of the best if not the best in terms of PAR of any T5 fixture or lighting system available. Buy a selection of bulbs and try some combos until you get the color your looking for and save yourself about $2600 in the process.

Generally speaking, impulse buys are not a good idea in this hobby although I will admit I do buy corals sometimes this way, but never equipment.

Good luck,
James

[bergzy]

spending big money for great products is nothing new in this hobby.

heck, people pay $3000 for an acrylic tube.

'my' take on led lighting is just that, again imo, not ready for the mainstream consumer world yet. i only spot read the solaris problem thread when it was going on and my take was that there were more problems than i would want...especially if it is a big ticket price item.

i have read nothing but great above the top customer service from pfo in concerns and repairs of its units...so, 'if' i had a solaris, i am reassured that i would be taken care of...

but...

do i want a light that constantly has sections burning out as some responders have reported? no, even if the panels are replaced for free. it is just too inconvenient and stressful. a multi thousand dollar whatever for a 'hobby' shouldnt be doing that.

it reminds me of a lot of people having problems with the first generation vortechs. customer service was great in the beginning but as time went on...i 'read' threads about peoples response from (and some of my reefer friends have reported) ecotech was finally 'well, that is how they are'. some people love their vortechs...some hate them. the first generations anyway. i havent really been reading up if vortechs still have their initial problems. but, they are still around and appear to be doing well.

i am not saying by any means that pfo will say 'well, that is how they are'. so far, from what i have read, their customer service has been world class. it just that i am a non fuss kind of guy.

as for 'expensive' lighting? a giesemann moonlight costs about the same as a solaris when equating size of fixtures. sometimes, splurging on a few nice things in life that bring us a little joy isnt all that bad, is it?

*i love my moonlight*

[layer3switchguy]

Great feedback here guys... Much appreciated. The I5 is on the UPS truck and will turn up here on October 1st... So, I still have a few days to figure out what I'm going to do. At this point, I am heavily leaning toward returning it, and sticking with my SolarFlare....

Lets keep the discussion going. I still have a few days to change my mind a few dozen times!

[manofcoral]

Yes it does. The pics really say a lot It is still way to expensive for most reefers IMO. I will be interested to here more about it in the future.

[moonlightxpress]

can someone get the link to Sanjays about the led light ..i am interested to know since i am getting my i5 soon..thanks

[rockworm]

Look at my first post on page 1 of this thread. (follows the pictures). Note that Sanjay has not done an analysis. He has posted pictures of a tank that uses the Solaris.

Originally posted by moonlightxpress
can someone get the link to Sanjays about the led light ..i am interested to know since i am getting my i5 soon..thanks

[DrBegalke]

Originally posted by Garage1217
It would NEVER be worth it to me to buy a $2800 light.

[DrBegalke]

double post

[GSMguy]

DRbegalke, the Solaris burns bulbs out all the time, once the warranty is gone that is going to cost $$$$

with the solaris you can only count on it running for 2 years after that if it breaks you pay big $$$$$$$

[Fukalite]

Sorry DP

[Fukalite]

The solaris, and LED lights in general, are great in theory but when you have 2 quadrants of lights fail within the first 2 weeks of use coupled with defective timers/electronic hardware you realize they needed to be further developed before being released to hobbyist/public.

I also found that the customer service is almost non-existent because they have no trouble shooting knowledge and no knowledge of the building process nor the parts used.

I am glad I pawned this problem off on someone else starry eyed over the LED technology and went back to T5. The new owner currently has invested $1100 in repairs since he acquired it.

After dealing with the I5, I now feel the SolarFlare and Powermodule are under priced.

[tufacody]

Originally posted by Garage1217
My math is perfect and according to the Solaris website and their own calculator *LOL* It would take me 303 months over my current setup to pay for the 48" solaris with the $7.77 per month savings which includes my MH replacement bulbs and all areas filled out on the form. That is NOT including the parts and labor for any repairs the solaris would need in that 25 years of use in which led tech will be so far along, the solaris will be like an old junk 65W light bulb.

I think I will pass and stick with my outer orbit that I paid around $400 shipped for new / A stock refurb from Current usa. Much more cost effective choice and my corals are simply stunning and healthy.

I do agree it is a nice light with uber features but led tech has a ways to go and a much cheaper price tag on the way so I will hold out a few years personally. I would pay $1000 for a good solid unit, but NEVER $2800.

Well I have the 72" feature. So, that would be 3 MH bulbs at least. Figure $300 bucks a year for replacement (because yes, I am anal about it and would replace after a year). In 5 years that is $1500.

Now figure in the cost of T5 bulbs, because I would certainly want actinics for that night time glow. So in 5 years, figuring T5's need to be changed more often that halides, another 1k?

Now timers.

How about a chiller for all the MH heat? I don't need one now, that's for sure. Another 1k?

Electric costs for MH and chiller?

C'mon dude, don't tell me that a MH/T5 system is not equally or more expensive over the course of a few years. I'm not that dumb. I've run both systems and I know what it costs to run both.

Yes, the Solaris I4 has been buggy as hell. I admit that. But I'm not sure when everyone says the technology is not there yet what they mean. The Solaris problems were caused by poor assembly, not deficiency in the LED technology. Some of you act like the light emitting diode is some neat new invention. It's not. The reason the cost is so expensive is because they are not being mass produced...yet. But there is little that needs to be learned on how to properly operate an LED. Scientific American this month predicts LED will replace incandescent and flourescent household fixtures in a matter of 2-3 years. But changing over facilities to produce them is expensive.

Will there be more features in a few years? Of course! If I like them enough, I will buy a new one. But I don't consider this a negative, its a positive! What technology changes will possibly happen with MH in the next 5 years? Nada.

Although I can afford the Solaris, I certainly can understand that others cannot, and have to justify their purchases taking cost into consideration. Luckily there are less expensive options that support corals very well. But although I do think the Solaris represents a cost savings over less than 5 years, it is the functionality of the light, the features, and what it does for my corals that make me a proud owner. If it failed, I'd go buy MH or T5 - because I can. But as another poster artfully said, I have no problem spending money on the things that make me happy. Or better still, things that make my corals happy

[Garage1217]

just my 2 cents on other than led, I have really been impressed lately with T5 setups. I have always been a MH guy and still LOVE my MH setup for the shimmer & natural look which is why I still run it.

But anyways yeah, T5 has come so far and they look so amazing now that they should not be passed up. & colors can be so insane with t5 as well!

[Garage1217]

Originally posted by tufacody
Well I have the 72" feature. So, that would be 3 MH bulbs at least. Figure $300 bucks a year for replacement (because yes, I am anal about it and would replace after a year). In 5 years that is $1500.

Now figure in the cost of T5 bulbs, because I would certainly want actinics for that night time glow. So in 5 years, figuring T5's need to be changed more often that halides, another 1k?

Now timers.

How about a chiller for all the MH heat? I don't need one now, that's for sure. Another 1k?

Electric costs for MH and chiller?

C'mon dude, don't tell me that a MH/T5 system is not equally or more expensive over the course of a few years. I'm not that dumb. I've run both systems and I know what it costs to run both.

Yes, the Solaris I4 has been buggy as hell. I admit that. But I'm not sure when everyone says the technology is not there yet what they mean. The Solaris problems were caused by poor assembly, not deficiency in the LED technology. Some of you act like the light emitting diode is some neat new invention. It's not. The reason the cost is so expensive is because they are not being mass produced...yet. But there is little that needs to be learned on how to properly operate an LED. Scientific American this month predicts LED will replace incandescent and flourescent household fixtures in a matter of 2-3 years. But changing over facilities to produce them is expensive.

Will there be more features in a few years? Of course! If I like them enough, I will buy a new one. But I don't consider this a negative, its a positive! What technology changes will possibly happen with MH in the next 5 years? Nada.

Although I can afford the Solaris, I certainly can understand that others cannot, and have to justify their purchases taking cost into consideration. Luckily there are less expensive options that support corals very well. But although I do think the Solaris represents a cost savings over less than 5 years, it is the functionality of the light, the features, and what it does for my corals that make me a proud owner. If it failed, I'd go buy MH or T5 - because I can. But as another poster artfully said, I have no problem spending money on the things that make me happy. Or better still, things that make my corals happy

- I run 150w bulbs in which I replace them every 1.5 years as it has been PROVEN they are fine in that range. I pay $55 a bulb for them shipped so over 5 years if I ran a 72" light with 3 bulbs, I would pay $412.5, not $1500

- I do not run actinic supplementation because of the color bulb I use so I do not replace t5's or pc's as I only use them for a dawn to dusk effect & they will last 5 years + with the small amount of time I use them.

- I do not run a chiller because I have never had the need for one. I actually have to heat my system to keep it at 78F.

- On another system my ballast is still rocking on 3 years now without a single complaint. My bud is running 7 years with his ballast(s), an old non heatsinked design he purchased used. Even I am impressed at this.

- Yeah I have 3 digital timers on my system, one for the fuge, one for the main light and one for the dawn & dusk effect. Total $40.00 Or I could have used the free timers that came with the light.



So no, overall it is far less expensive than a $2800 solaris. If you have the cash & like to spend it, then I am happy for you. I can easily afford a solaris as well, but again my priorities are quite different that yours obviously.

Also like I said, I ran the calculator on the solaris site. Would take 303 months or 25 years for the solaris to be a cost benefit to me in which time it will be garbage and need a crapload of repairs.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm & willing to go to all lengths for your hobby, the fact is the OP requested others input on if he wasted money or not. In most of our opinions the answer is yes which is all that matters.

[Philwd]

Originally posted by jamesdawson
If you want LED, wait 2-3 years and LED is likely to cost 1/2 or less then what it does now from what I have read. PAR also seems to be an issue with the current crop of LED fixtures and that is also likely to improve a lot over the next few years.

Don't I wish that were true. After extensive reading and talking to folks in the LED world of materials it became clear to me the inflection point will be when the 150 lumen/W LEDs hit the market. Currently production units are ~ 100 lumens.

Manufacturing costs will come down as manufacturers are able to adopt more of the standard semiconductor techniques currently used in advanced CPUs. However that is 4-5 years away from volume manufacturing. About the same time frame as the 150l/w LED generation.

At that point I feel if you looked at PAR/$ then LED will have a 20-30% advantage over MH/T5. It does NOT mean they will be cheaper than MH athough costs should come down. This analysis included a chiller (even though I don't need one as I run at 78 with fans it makes LEDs look better) and all bulb and electrical costs. You also have to factor in how much controllability is worth to you.

But even then you will still have coverage issues unless something else is done. Maybe take all that extra PAR and use it up by raising the LED fixture.

[tufacody]

Garage: as I said before, I'm happy you are happy with your system. I would not be. Wouldn't it be more of a waste to spend money on a system you are unhappy with? The original poster will only know if he wasted his money until after he has run the thing. If you haven't run one, or have little epxerience with the light, your opinion on the matter is extremely limited. All you can make is cost arguments, and obviously you and I disagree greatly on that.

Phil raises some great points, but the whole PAR thing is largely irrelevant -- at least to me. Success is success. I don't really care if the PAR is greater than or less than MH, because I already know it works well.

That's all I'm gonna say here. I have received many PMs on the Solaris and will gladly answer what I can. If its not clear by now, any light is largely a matter of preferance. Pro-solaris peeps can make any number of arguments why they like it and non-solaris peeps can make an equal amount of argument why they don't.

The bottom line is preferance, pure and simple. Its not a waste if you like it better, regardless of how the actual costs play out.

[Garage1217]

Best of luck to you sir, and yes I have very little experience with the solaris, and have only seen one small unit over a nano in person when they first came out and was not impressed compared to the same size sunpod. Just my opinion on the matter and I have no other experience than that.

Also I was simply responding to comments you made with me in a quote which I figured was directed at me. You said I did not do the math, and well I did the math and it does not compute. And if you do not like my responses, well just a difference in opinion. And yes, being happy with a product is always #1 over cost. However this guy is seeking advice and he will get to check out the light in person so I am curious as to what he will end up doing, returning it or keeping it.

And just to say it, but Phil is 110% dead on. We are so close to a breakthrough output wise / production cost wise... just 5 or so years away... so close...

[Philwd]

Originally posted by tufacody


Phil raises some great points, but the whole PAR thing is largely irrelevant -- at least to me. Success is success. I don't really care if the PAR is greater than or less than MH, because I already know it works well.

I chose that metric for comparison because it is actually very close to what the lighting industry uses. They use lumens/cent. There really isn't a better way to express the cost efficiency of a lighting method. PAR/$ just expresses that in a way more valuable to our hobby.

Actually what I am hoping for is a breakthrough in RGB LED solutions. That will allow a full spectrum that has potential to break through the 250l/w theoretical maximum for a white power LED using phosphors.

Good Luck Cody and post growth/color shots as your tank grows in.

[rockworm]

tufacody, you are fighting losing battle. I have the solaris as well. Those that do not own a solaris form their opinions based on others opinions or science of light theory or some other reason.

There is a reason most people who own these do not write about them on these boards. It is the naysayers' comments. I find it a little funny when Solaris is mentioned, a person has to justify their purchase. I have seen Solaris tank pictures on other sites and the corals look good. That is good enough for me.