Garlic in food

[Onyx97]

Can I use garlic powder on my frozen food or does it have to be specially for marine fish ?

[tmz]

I wouldn't use either the preserved extracts sold under hobby labels or the powder. The active ingredient in garlic creditied for human immuno enhancement is allicin. It stays active for only a few hours after a clove is squeezed. So even if it were to help marine fish in the some way( which is a dubious proposition at best) preserved or powdered garlic is even more unlikely to have any beneficial effect. I personaly used garlic for several months and stopped. I don't believe it has any benefit even fresh and I am concerned that excessive amounts may do some harm.

[Michael]

i agree tom, from what ive read it can cause liver damage

[atvdave]

Originally posted by Onyx97
Can I use garlic powder on my frozen food or does it have to be specially for marine fish ?

Not sure on the powder stuff, but I use Garlic Guard with very good results. I just use it with flake & pellet food though. I have read before here on RC that some people get the garlic clove from there local grocery store and dice it up very fine and feed that way. It's just way easer for me just to mix the liquid form, and one 19.9 oz lasts me for about 9 months.

[raggie]

my fish in my tank were stressed out and my yellow tang started showing signs of ick i simply just added a clove of garlic in my sump and left it there for a few days the fish all cleared up and looked healthier then ever garlic is in-fact a natural immune system booster for fish

[Michael]

Originally posted by raggie
my fish in my tank were stressed out and my yellow tang started showing signs of ick i simply just added a clove of garlic in my sump and left it there for a few days the fish all cleared up and looked healthier then ever garlic is in-fact a natural immune system booster for fish

hi-maggie, im not going to get rude or be unfreindly, but a clove of garlic simply dropped in the sump will not do anything at all, absolutelt nothing, im pleased your fish seemed happy and better, thats great news but the garlic didnt do it

[Mr James]

I have used Zoe and Selcon in the past, mixed in my food. I have been known to crush garlic and soak it in with my food.

And for the record Raggie, I WON'T be rude. I believe that it did work. I don't think I would try it, but I believe that it helped in your situation.

[Michael]

Originally posted by Mr James
I have used Zoe and Selcon in the past, mixed in my food. I have been known to crush garlic and soak it in with my food.

And for the record Raggie, I WON'T be rude. I believe that it did work. I don't think I would try it, but I believe that it helped in your situation.

its an old wives tale, just poppycock, still if you believe it then fair enough

[tmz]

Originally posted by raggie
my fish in my tank were stressed out and my yellow tang started showing signs of ick i simply just added a clove of garlic in my sump and left it there for a few days the fish all cleared up and looked healthier then ever garlic is in-fact a natural immune system booster for fish

Glad. your fish are ok. What studies are you reading taht support support your claim that garlic is IN FACT a natural immune system booster for fish.Just because you think so or hope so doesn't make it a fact.

[Mr James]

by tmz
.Just because you think so or hope so doesn't make it a fact.

While Raggie is finding his information, care to back your claim up there sir??

Found this in a simple search....and many more like it.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...ghlight=garlic

[tmz]

Opinion polls don't make it a fact ; just makes it a popular trend .There is no science behind it.If there were manufacturer's would let you know in their marketing. Fish can and do survive ich infestations and develop partial immunity(Burgess and Matthews 1995).This is a good thing but unfortunately lends creedence to whatever trendy treatment may be in play via a placebo effect.

[noboddi]

The only claim for garlic I have heard from any sort of authority is that it helps stimulate feeding.

Even if it does work on some diseases, there are far more effective (and proven) treatments available.

[Michael]

it would be fantastic if it were that easy, id be very happy, just imagine being able to simply drop a garlic clove in the sump and itch is cured, id always have garlic in my sump if this were so, lets face it we all would and copper treatments and hypo would never ever be mentioned again, the tank transfer would never have existed and we wouldnt need QT, well most of us wouldnt bother, unfortunately theres just no evidence at all anywhere that suggests this is reality, shame though it would be great,never mind we can only hope 1 day something this simple is discovered, heres waiting with hope

[atvdave]

This is one thing (of a few) that I hate about the forums here on RC. Someone asks a simple question and it turns into a flame war about a question that wasn't even asked by the original poster.

The use of garlic has been debated over, and over... and over here on RC for years, and I'm sure it will be debated for many more. Believe or don't believe

And to tmz.. many manufactures do market the use of garlic in there food, but it doesn't make it a fact. So believe or don't believe, but please leave the one's who do believe alone.

So if anyone has any personal experience with using powder garlic I think Onyx97 would like to know about it.

So back to the original post..

Originally posted by Onyx97
Can I use garlic powder on my frozen food or does it have to be specially for marine fish ?

[Onyx97]

Thanks atvdave if I had known this question would have set this storm off I probably would not have asked it. I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. This debate has nothing to do with my original question. Thanks anyway.

[thecoralreefer]

Yes most manufactures do have a variety w/ garlic in it.
I wonder if we can call on a scientic friend to give any good information on this topic. Is Einstien out there ??
Do we have any scientific proof on this. Formua one engineers ??
2 littles fishes ??? How about it Pablo Are you out there ???

[returnofsid]

Many MANY studies have been done as to the effects of Garlic. It has been shown that in freshwater fish, it might...again MIGHT boost immune systems and help with certain parasites, most probably by it being a repulsive taste to the parasites.

In saltwater fish, the studies have shown that it has absolutely NO health benefits at all, but that it DOES increase feeding response. So, it would be a health benefit if you had a fish that wasn't eating...maybe.

Same studies showed that there's no harmful effects from using garlic.

[stuccodude]

another garlic thread that some people take very serious that garlic cannot help with ich but i for one had ich bad 2 years ago and within 1 week of garlic it was gone. people ask what to do when they get ich and i usually dont reply cuase its a argument every time but it does work. it is proven that mosquitoes dont host people with garlic in there system so why not ich?

[WaterKeeper]

I wish the mosquitoes would read the research article so they would know better than to bite me.

I don't believe it works but if it makes you feel better then by all means use it.

[tmz]

Originally posted by returnofsid
Many MANY studies have been done as to the effects of Garlic. It has been shown that in freshwater fish, it might...again MIGHT boost immune systems and help with certain parasites, most probably by it being a repulsive taste to the parasites.

In saltwater fish, the studies have shown that it has absolutely NO health benefits at all, but that it DOES increase feeding response. So, it would be a health benefit if you had a fish that wasn't eating...maybe.

Same studies showed that there's no harmful effects from using garlic.

What studies? I'd like to read them if you can kindly provide a cite.

[tmz]

Originally posted by atvdave
This is one thing (of a few) that I hate about the forums here on RC. Someone asks a simple question and it turns into a flame war about a question that wasn't even asked by the original poster.

The use of garlic has been debated over, and over... and over here on RC for years, and I'm sure it will be debated for many more. Believe or don't believe

And to tmz.. many manufactures do market the use of garlic in there food, but it doesn't make it a fact. So believe or don't believe, but please leave the one's who do believe alone.

So if anyone has any personal experience with using powder garlic I think Onyx97 would like to know about it.

So back to the original post..

I am not flaming anyone.

Facts are facts and opinions are opinions. You are entitled to express yours and I mine.

If you read the whole thread you'll note I did respond as to why I thought powder would be less likely than fresh garlic to have beneficial immune system effect.

The facts about garlic and marine fish immune systems and/or disease control are very few.

I do not claim that garlic can't boost the immune system of marine fish. It may or it may not.It does appear to be a placebo effect in my view,however.

It may or it may not be harmful to organisms(fish or invertebrates) in the reef particluarly if used excessively. Afterall it's not a natural reef substance.

Sharing positive or negative anecdotal information is a good way for all to learn. My experience with garlic has not been positive overall. So my opinion on it's use is skeptical.I beleive it's very important to get different views out on a subject like this for the benefit of those reading the thread so they can make informed decisions for themselves.

Raggie's post includes the following staement:... garlic does in fact boost the immune system of Marine fish... That is untrue. It is not a fact ,merely an opinion which might be correct or incorrect. Letting that stand might easily be be percieved as agreement.

You may percieve any debate about a practice you favor as flaming but it's not. It's just a debate. Accusing those who disagree with you of somehow picking on you or flaming tends to personalize the whole issue . BTW , I responded on topic in my first post and did not post my opinion until much later to avoid this endless argument. I believe you posted your off topic anecdotal experience much earlier than my objection to a claim to the immune properties of garlic for marine fish as fact.

[returnofsid]

Ask and you shall receive....
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/sp/index.php
http://www.reefs.org/library/article...tes-jorge.html

[Tswifty]

I hate this debate... although I definitely side with Tom on this and feel Garlic has NO disease fighting capabilities whatsoever... and I'm one of those guys who's fish got ich, used garlic and it was gone!

There's a lot going on inside that lil box o' water, and no amount of cleaner shrimp, garlic, or magic fairy dust will immunize your tank or it's inhabitants.

IMHO... do whatever you need to do to keep your fish eating... a fat fish is a healthy fish... healthy fish don't get sick.

[tmz]

Originally posted by returnofsid
Many MANY studies have been done as to the effects of Garlic. It has been shown that in freshwater fish, it might...again MIGHT boost immune systems and help with certain parasites, most probably by it being a repulsive taste to the parasites.

In saltwater fish, the studies have shown that it has absolutely NO health benefits at all, but that it DOES increase feeding response. So, it would be a health benefit if you had a fish that wasn't eating...maybe.

Same studies showed that there's no harmful effects from using garlic.

I read the two citations you provided Thankyou for providing them. I recall seeing them before but they are interesting and worth reading at least twice.
I am still concerned about potential harm either to fish or invertebrates. There really wasn't anything that would lead to a conclusion that garlic extract as is in hobby products would be very efffective at all. The studies summarized in the two articles do indeed note that to provide doses via ingestion that might be high enough to possibly have effect on pathenogens the liver and hemoglobin would have to be "overhelmed" and damaged for enough allicin to be delivered. It did seem that against intenstinal worms there may be some benefit based on that particular study. The other in vitro studies really showed very little that was conclusive one way or the other.Both of the articles reemphasized repeatedly the fact that allicin is the active ingredient and that it only last a short time after fresh garlic is squeezed as I did in the first response to this post . Further survival of this ingedient is very unlikely when administered via the intestinal tract vs injection or topical application unless it is orally admisistered in quantities large enough to overwhelm the liver.

It is good to know much work is being done on garlic and it's immuno properties for humans and we can hope some extrapolations to marine life may follow but for now it may not be a good bet and could do more harm than good in an overall reef. Even if it was effective against parasites( and that's a big if) getting it to them as allicin and not just garlic flavoring and into the fish tissue are barriers that have not been breached at this point as far as I know.Neither of the articles noted suggested a way this could be done.

Again thankyou for sharing these links.

[jamest0o0]

I personally liked garlic because my fish seemed to eat better with it. (mainly my clowns)