Warner Marine K series Cone skimmer Review !!!!!

[mojo~]

My WM K2 is pulling 20 to 21 lpm. Now I know that this isnt airstar pump but thats a $1399 skimmer as well.

[victor90]

Mojo
I thought you were doing a review of the WM skimmer not the ATB its nice that Jon sent you those pictures since they were taken at Ali store and then sent to JNS to clone the ATBs

[mojo~]

I am reviewing the K2 skimmer. I Actually really like the ATB skimmer. The airstar is a great pump. That pic is posted if you search hard enough. So let me ask you since you are reading this. How does this compare to the ATB medium? Is it similar or am I way off base. No one has this skimmer yet but people do have yours. I am only using the closest thing possible to compare too. No one liked it when I compared it to a msx octo x because they werent cones. My only point is if people can get a similar product @ $400 less and get one made in the USA why not. That is really all I am saying. I enjoy the skimmer so far. But I havent had it long enough to say it is worth more than a comparible cylinder tube shaped skimmer. Other than the cone shape my skimmer doesnt really look like an ATB, the bubble ring is different than your plate. it doesnt have the small riser around the bubble plate either. All skimmers are similar. But again I ask you Victor am I wrong in comaparing the two for reference? I dont really see a huge difference. Your medium has a 5 inch neck I do believe where the K2 has a 4.5 inch neck. That is about the biggest difference I can see. And you would need the larger neck with the airstar pump but not really with the ehiem from my experience. You make a great product and thats why I am using it for comparison. Thanks Mojo~

[just dave]

Originally posted by ostrow
Cones are new, so early to tell.

But as for the general part of your question, I can say this. I used to run an ASM G5. Then I modded it.

Then I replaced it with an ATI BM250 which so completely outperformed the ASM that it isn't even funny. I ran that until my custom skimmer was built, kept it for a while, then switched entirely to my custom. I love it.

But I'm getting tempted by the ATB and Warner cones out/coming out. Also pondering a custom version to fit my needs more precisely.

Not too long ago ASM and Euro Reef skimmers were hailed as cutting edge. Skimmer "technology" has been changing a lot recently but I wonder if it's always better. I've been following Mojo's threads and for some reason he has a some addiction to buying new skimmers. This addiction is giving some of us some comparative insight between brands and types. I'm curious as to the actual benefits of the cone when you compare it's production costs versus its performance. Unfortunately we would need to compare two skimmers that the only real variable was the body shape. So far Mojo is the closet thing we have for that comparison. If cone design proves to be better (or more desirable) we'll soon see the prices coming down. I have a system that is doing very well and it had two ASM g3 skimmers on it. I recently replaced one with a WM S200. Not only does the S200 out perform one g3 it out performs them both. The two g3's out performed a single g5. You can always find something that works better but at what cost and what sacrifice? I have no doubt that bubble plates and cones provide increased performance. I'm just curious as to how much more?

Sorry Mojo. Carry on.

[victor90]

You are comparing the wrong products mojo. Before this I had the most respect for your reviews. I actually thought you were really trying to help reefers out . The WM will be similar to the econo 840. Features are the same, same pump but ours looks much better. So you put a bigger body with the same pump, but is it better? i wish you would give the people an honest review of the product that they can buy the one you have is a prototype made in tawain not made in the usa by his new manufacturer. Then let the buyers do the comparison have you ever seen me say that we are better than anyone in the business. There are alot of great products out there and I have the most respect for alot of people in the business. when i was at Macna where I got to meet Phil from Deltec and Brian from Fins Reef. They are great people. I let the customers that have purchased the product speak. I have never sent anyone free product or paid to post on RC or anywhere. Do you know the real reason why WM cones are made in the usa? So his normal line is no good now since they are made in Taiwan? Only time will tell if people will be happy with the WM
Thanks

[frenchie]

i think skimmers are like cars, they will all get you from point a to point b and get the job done its more of do you want a chevy cavalier or the corvette, and some go for the lamborgini's. Almost any brand skimmer can do the job its what you want in a skimmer.

[victor90]

D french you are right to a point but some will do it better than others, I see that your a machinist I sure you would see the difference between a haas and a generic cnc. i machine also

[mojo~]

Just dave, You are just fine this is why we are here. To share info and make better choices for future purchases. Some people still think I am given skimmers. lol. I wish. But I do front the $$ for all my skimmers thus far. If someone wants to send me a skimmer to try out and review I would love too. But I will also let readers know that it was for beta testing and was given to me to try out. I havent been real brand loyal in the past. However I do only order from a couple places. But after the the WM as 150 I started to really enjoy the customer service I got with that skimmer. Now I know that there is great service out there from others. But something is said for the return calls an messages. One of my favorite places to order from is Premium Aquatics. They are in Indiana like me but dont carry the WM skimmer line yet. I enjoy calling places and talking reef. I also enjoy talking with those at reefspecialty, aquarium specialty and Marinesolutions. They are all great and Jon from warner marine has been no different. If you have a question ask and he ll answer. I broke a shaft on my as150 and he overnighted me one to get me going sooner. its the little things that keep one coming back.
However there has to be a limit on what that will cost. Service is worth something but how much. I dont know. All I can say is that I enjoy what I have so far. I dont see anything wrong with that. I encourage discusion as it is how we all learn. I learn more everyday. Maybe someday I can take all the skimmer design ideas and come up with my own skimmer line called the Mojo 1,2,3,4,///ect lol anyone want to take me up on that. ok ok I am getting tired and rambling but Take a look at the Warner Marine Sponsor forum and read more on this skimmer the bubble ring design and anything else they might have going on. Great people there. Mojo~

[frenchie]

yeah, but i call cnc guys operators not machinist,LOL. i run manual machines and learning cnc's now we have mazak and okuma's. My honest opinion and i'm sure everyone will agree 100 percent is 2 things make a great skimmer one that performs great stock with no mods if i have to mod it than why would i buy it, and 2nd customers service, i don't want a hassle getting something fixed or getting parts.

[frenchie]

master cam makes everything easy.

[schneijt]

Mojo,

I've been "stalking" this thread just because the cone concept intrigues me and I like seeing reviews of the new cones hitting the market. I just wanted to take a second to thank you for trying your best to keep this thread on-track and focused on the WM cones like it should be. I'm so sick of seeing every cone skimmer thread turning into WWIII because of members fighting over petty crap. Thanks for trying to keep this one civil, and thanks for all the good info you're giving those of us who are contemplating dropping the $$$ for a cone skimmer in the future, whatever models and manufacturers we may choose to go with.

-Joe

[JNye]

This skimmer looks good for the price, people paying this amount of money will compare prices and features Mojo...i just wish you'd stop trying to do that. If you have owned the skimmer in the past then bring it up for comparision, but I can easily look up specs/numbers/prices of others on my own. stick to the WM cone, i want to hear about it, since you are the only one with one.

[mojo~]

Originally posted by ATB USA
You are comparing the wrong products mojo. Before this I had the most respect for your reviews. I actually thought you were really trying to help reefers out . The WM will be similar to the econo 840. Features are the same, same pump but ours looks much better. So you put a bigger body with the same pump, but is it better? i wish you would give the people an honest review of the product that they can buy the one you have is a prototype made in tawain not made in the usa by his new manufacturer. Then let the buyers do the comparison have you ever seen me say that we are better than anyone in the business. There are alot of great products out there and I have the most respect for alot of people in the business. when i was at Macna where I got to meet Phil from Deltec and Brian from Fins Reef. They are great people. I let the customers that have purchased the product speak. I have never sent anyone free product or paid to post on RC or anywhere. Do you know the real reason why WM cones are made in the usa? So his normal line is no good now since they are made in Taiwan? Only time will tell if people will be happy with the WM
Thanks

So you dont have any respect for my reviews? That is your choice. But to be honest if you look at my reviews I do post real information. I paid for the skimmer I have. Alot just ask the wife! lol. But that is why I asked you what I should compare it too. And to be quite honest go back and look at my review on the AS 150. And call scott from Aquarium specialty thats where I bought it. He will verify I bought and paid for it. No issue there. And as far as the rest of the WM line I dont know. I actually wasnt as happy with the as150. I felt that there were some changes that should be made for a skimmer at that level of price and I told jon about them. And Actually I agree with you on the fact that time will tell. I am a firm believer in that. Everday that I am on here I read: the ATB forum, the Bubbleking forum, The warner marine, and the marinesolutionsinc sponsor forum.I enjoy reading what others have to say about the products and the customer service that is presented in those forums. And I have never ever said anything bad about ATB. I chose your skimmer as it is a great product that people have come custom to knowing as a premium product. As far as looking better that a opinion. Its like say the color red is better than black. I chalange you to take a close look at the new cone skimmer as it is built really well with great products. Very sturdy feel. i dont know. This is getting way off line. I thank you for your input and I leave every other skimmer out of this review if it will make ou happy. I am the general public and I somewhat feel attacked for posting what I see as factual information.

For everyone else. This is a great skimmer so far. I ll get some Nog shots this weekend to show. I am curious as to see how it comes out. I really hated selling my octo X 200 to buy this skimmer. It has been the best bang for buck skimmer under $300 you can buy imo. I have been wanting a premium skimmer for sometime and had it narrowed down to the Bubbleking, ATB , or Warner Marine. I have been given a chance to give everyone a sneak peek as what is to come from warner marine. My only advantage is I get to test it, review it and post the info. I paid for this skimmer. I jsut got mine a little earlier than the rest. Mojo~

[mojo~]

Originally posted by poo-tang
This skimmer looks good for the price, people paying this amount of money will compare prices and features Mojo...i just wish you'd stop trying to do that. If you have owned the skimmer in the past then bring it up for comparision, but I can easily look up specs/numbers/prices of others on my own. stick to the WM cone, i want to hear about it, since you are the only one with one.

Pootang, Thanks for the advice. I understand what you are saying. I only brought this up as I get many pm's and emails on this forum and another I am on. I was asked how this compared to the above mentioned product. So I tried my best to give what info I could and well it kinda slapped me in the face. I might be better off blowing air in my tank with straw and catching the bubbles. lol. Ok ok the K2. If anyone out there has any questions on the K2 or any other skimmer I have owned just let me know. I ll do my best to get right back to you.

[just dave]

Mojo, I already carry WM skimmers and I now carry another line of skimmers primary based on one of your reviews and the subsequent owners thread that followed. I realize they are made well and who makes them. I'm more interested in the merits of the cone shape compared to its cost. I use threads like this to follow products I'm interested in carrying and I'm subscribed to a lot in order to follow the actual consumers experiences with them.

[mojo~]

Just dave pm sent.
Mojo~

[rroselavy]

I would like to know how the WM cone skimmer performs compared to what Mojo has already used. I agree that comparisons between this WM cone and a ATB cone is speculative and not worth its salt if mojo is not using them both on the same system with the same (approximate) bioload.

I think Mojo may be a prematurely excited about this interesting skimmer. Perhaps mojo is just reaching too much to please the masses before having obtained any concrete "data". I think we should all just sit back and wait a few weeks, a few months and see what his results prove.

Mojo's reviews are best when concise, relative and balanced. Less is sometimes more. I think some are just sensing a bit of bias (or collusion) because of that excitement.

[redmarble]

Mojo, I've been reading your thread and I've noticed that you need to be more scientific and less bias. Not once have you talked about how the skimmer has affected your aquarium and its parameters. Also, It's not fair to compare the WM cone with the ATB cone skimmer. For one, you don't even have one to compare it to. And, second the ATB cone skimmer is a superior product, period. If you really want to compare the WM cone do so with one of the same category: the MSX/SWC cone skimmer.

[mojo~]

Tonight I came home to a little almost yellow skimate. This is mostly my fault as I am running it a little low. We have had the power go out here a couple times so I was running low to keep the skimmer from overflowing if something were to go crazy while I was at work. I did bump it up and we will see what we got over the weekend.
If I could compare it to any other skimmer I have owned. hmmm. I dont know really. it blends some things I really have liked in a couple. I like the longer neck in the cone. ITs like a euroreef that has a long neck for the bubble to rise. I like the gate valve over a wedge pipe. This makes it easier to adjust. And the valve isnt in the water as it was on a past skimmer I reviewed. I like the fact it pulls a great amount of air on a pinwheel. If I can get those #'s and not have to remesh a wheel that would be great.
The only problem I have run into is the base width. It is about 10.5 inches and my sump and stand dont have enough distance between them for me to get the skimmer in from the front.
Other than that its been running pretty well.

[mojo~]

Originally posted by redmarble
Mojo, I've been reading your thread and I've noticed that you need to be more scientific and less bias. Not once have you talked about how the skimmer has affected your aquarium and its parameters. Also, It's not fair to compare the WM cone with the ATB cone skimmer. For one, you don't even have one to compare it to. And, second the ATB cone skimmer is a superior product, period. If you really want to compare the WM cone do so with one of the same category: the MSX/SWC cone skimmer.

Now I am trying not to go there. As I am taking people advice please take some of your own. Dont rate a product if you dont have one. You are saying this is like a swc cone. How do you know that. How do you know the ATB is superior. I have no doubt that most would agree the the ATB is a great skimmer. I would not deny that one bit. All I am asking is take a good look at this skimmer. I has things some dont have. The bubble ring for example. Does it work. I dont know. Time will tell if it is worth the hype. The build quality is really amazing on this as well. The material is thick the edges are finished like a mirror. It is heavy it has every making of a premium skimmer. So keep an open mind sit back and enjoy the thread. I would like to ask everyone from here on out to just keep the others skimmers out of it. We will focus on the Warner Marine k2.
Mojo~

[just dave]

Of the ones that I recall you have owned it seems like the Extreme 200 would be the closest type to compare it with for getting a feel of how the cone compares to a non-cone unit. The each have Sicce pumps ( I assume you used a pinwheel on the Extreme) similar sized necks , and each has a type of bubble plate.

[mojo~]

I used both pinwheel and mesh. Mostly mesh on the 200's. I really like the msx 200. its a greats skimmer. it performs well and it has a great value for what you get in a skimmer. I do wish it had a gate valve. I find the wedge pipe to be a pain in the cyano. The cone design I have pulls more air, partly becuase of shape and some due to the design of the venturi on the K2.

[redmarble]

Originally posted by mojo46825
Now I am trying not to go there. As I am taking people advice please take some of your own. Dont rate a product if you dont have one.

I'm not rating I'm categorizing... PRICE.

Originally posted by mojo46825
You are saying this is like a swc cone. How do you know that.

Again, I'm categorizing... PRICE.

Originally posted by mojo46825
How do you know the ATB is superior.

Then, why are you comparing the WM cone skimmer to the ATB??

Originally posted by mojo46825
I have no doubt that most would agree the the ATB is a great skimmer. I would not deny that one bit. All I am asking is take a good look at this skimmer. I has things some dont have.

We can see that in the pics. That's why it sounds redundant when you post.

Originally posted by mojo46825
The bubble ring for example. Does it work. I dont know. Time will tell if it is worth the hype.

Then why call it a review... it should be a preview... Or, first thoughts. Better yet, you should have waited one or two months to post a complete and thorough review.

Originally posted by mojo46825
The build quality is really amazing on this as well. The material is thick the edges are finished like a mirror. It is heavy it has every making of a premium skimmer.

Can you define "premium skimmer"?

Originally posted by mojo46825
So keep an open mind sit back and enjoy the thread. I would like to ask everyone from here on out to just keep the others skimmers out of it.

Hey, you started it, right? Comparing to ATB.

Originally posted by mojo46825
We will focus on the Warner Marine k2.
Mojo~

Please do.

Not personal, I just would want this to be objective and not subjective.

[victor90]

Mojo's a good guy and will get back on the right track

[rhoptowit]

seems like whenever i come back to this thread the creditability of the review dwindles.