Eel Identification with pic? Help me out here

[rendogg]

Originally posted by DaytonaJoe
This has to be one of the most entertaining threads ever, between the guy with the fishing avatar lecturing everyone that wild collection is wrong and the suggestion that we go give each other massages. But to top it all off, the eels turn out to be an invasive species not native to Florida! hahahaha

Yes, entertaining indeed! I am assuming your opinion is similar to the OP's because you added yourself to the massage party. I tend to throw comedy into my statements for a little more impact. I hope people can laugh at the jokes but still take the message seriously. I know there are people who collect and understand and respect what they have taken. This thread is an example of how some "fish loving" hobbyists aren't really that at all, instead they are greedy and disrespectful of nature, thinking it's there for them to exploit. The funny thing is, the eels are still unidentified and they probably are native.... oh, wait a minute, that's not funny after all.

[DaytonaJoe]

Originally posted by jbird69
What you dont know about my avatar is I now how that fish living in my nano cube, so I can catch him whenever I want!

So, by the way, how are your eels doing today??

Not to derail the thread, but I am active on other reef forums. Take a look around for this name I just joined up here to expand on my resources

[freddy4130]

Originally posted by rendogg
Yes, entertaining indeed! I am assuming your opinion is similar to the OP's because you added yourself to the massage party. I tend to throw comedy into my statements for a little more impact. I hope people can laugh at the jokes but still take the message seriously. I know there are people who collect and understand and respect what they have taken. This thread is an example of how some "fish loving" hobbyists aren't really that at all, instead they are greedy and disrespectful of nature, thinking it's there for them to exploit. The funny thing is, the eels are still unidentified and they probably are native.... oh, wait a minute, that's not funny after all.

I think you misunderstood. It's not your posts that are funny. It's funny that you post at all.

[BS]

Originally posted by rendogg
I'm assuming you guys got together, massaged each other,

You've mistaken me for someone from B.C.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by rendogg
This thread is an example of how some "fish loving" hobbyists aren't really that at all, instead they are greedy and disrespectful of nature, thinking it's there for them to exploit. The funny thing is, the eels are still unidentified and they probably are native.... oh, wait a minute, that's not funny after all.

I think its more about a few self righteous hypocrites getting all worked up about a bunch of chum/bait collected by an aquarist.

If the original poster really wants to know more about the sand eels he collected I suggest he e-mail the Florida Fish and Wild Life with some pictures and info on where and how they were collected. This way if they are invasive they can go back to that area and eradicate as many as possible. BTW if you come across non-native species when collecting you are obligated to euthanize them.

[heap]

just isn't much room for nuance in a convo like this, is there?

you're either imbued by the almighty to club whatever you want over the head and put it in a box in your house, or you're a peta freak ZOMGS enviroloon hypocrite fish-hugger.

[elegance coral]

I can't believe this thread. People buy their fish from a pet store so that's somehow better than this guy picking up a few eels at the beach? We know the process that fish go through to get here from the other side of the planet. How can that be better than picking up a few eels? No chemicals, explosives, or any other destructive technique used. No airplane rides, no being packed into tiny air tight boxes for hours on end, no drastic temperature or air pressure changes, no rough handling from baggage workers, no exposure to poor water conditions. Just a short little car ride home.

The eels looked perfectly healthy to me. How many fish in the typical LFS look that healthy?

We know what species they are. It isn't even arguable at this point.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by heap
just isn't much room for nuance in a convo like this, is there?

you're either imbued by the almighty to club whatever you want over the head and put it in a box in your house, or you're a peta freak ZOMGS enviroloon hypocrite fish-hugger.

That was another poor analogy my friend. The original poster never clubbed anything and as far as I know he collected the animals in a caring manner.

At least I contributed to the OPs request for an I.D. Many others just felt the need to derail the thread. Right now there seems to be a question as whether they are native or non-native species. I collected quite a bit of things in Florida and unfortunately came across large numbers of invasive species.

[heap]

Originally posted by Aquabucket
That was another poor analogy my friend.

was attempting to poke fun at both extremes, if ya didn't notice.

i don't think anybody is clubbing things over the head, nor do i think expressing reservations about the situation is akin to being a fish hugging enviroloon.

it just seems like folks approach each other as if it were the case. again, not much room for nuance.

[freddy4130]

Originally posted by elegance coral
I can't believe this thread. People buy their fish from a pet store so that's somehow better than this guy picking up a few eels at the beach? We know the process that fish go through to get here from the other side of the planet. How can that be better than picking up a few eels? No chemicals, explosives, or any other destructive technique used. No airplane rides, no being packed into tiny air tight boxes for hours on end, no drastic temperature or air pressure changes, no rough handling from baggage workers, no exposure to poor water conditions. Just a short little car ride home.

The eels looked perfectly healthy to me. How many fish in the typical LFS look that healthy?

We know what species they are. It isn't even arguable at this point.

Do you have any idea what goes into making the plasic bucket in which he "collected" these eels? He should be thrown in jail for having used such Eco-unfriendly tools.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by heap
was attempting to poke fun at both extremes, if ya didn't notice.

i don't think anybody is clubbing things over the head, nor do i think expressing reservations about the situation is akin to being a fish hugging enviroloon.

it just seems like folks approach each other as if it were the case. again, not much room for nuance.

Got it! So which are you? A clubber or a hypocrite hugger?

[freddy4130]

lol! Aquabucket, you're cool. Your tank is sweet. I would have never pegged you for one to call out the huggers in a thread. I love it.

[rendogg]

Somehow i've found myself in a battle I didn't want to fight but felt obligated to. The OP's haste in collection, defensive/self-entitled responses to people questioning him, and lack of knowledge of the animals collected, prompted me to respond. The responses that ensued, only after minor questioning, were antagonistic and narrow minded. It got a little heated and some feathers were ruffled. I am by no means a fanatic/hypocrite. I am, however, a lover of life and nature. I fly fish and I may even take one home now and then, I have several aquariums with many fish and inverts that came from the wild, I even wanted to, and sometimes did, collect all sorts of life when I was young because of their beauty and fascinating habits. I have learned a lot, still not enough, over the years in the hobby and outside of the hobby. My experiences have taught me the value of life, not just my life but, the lives of all organisms. This is the message that I want to convey:

I'm not saying everyone who collects something here and there is a bad person. I am saying that there needs to be accountability when collecting, not only on a commercial scale but on a private scale as well. We, as hobbyists, need to be ambassadors of our hobby, having an aquarium with life in it is a privilege not a right. If we don't start acting like ambassadors and keep raping the beaches and water, we may lose our privilege. And that will be the fault of irresponsible practices, both commercial and private. The hobby is shifting towards cultured coral, tank bred fish, even cultured live rock. We need to keep progressing not regressing. Why revert back to and support old archaic ways that are unsustainable? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution? [/B][/QUOTE]

[freddy4130]

I support the OP. If that makes me part of the problem in rendogg's land, then I'll take it.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by freddy4130
lol! Aquabucket, you're cool. Your tank is sweet. I would have never pegged you for one to call out the huggers in a thread. I love it.

I am here on this forum to just try and help out for the most part and am not here to judge anyone.

On another note ~ if they die in his tank they will make a good non-chemical fertilizer.

[luther1200]

What he did was hardly rape the beach.

[heap]

Originally posted by Aquabucket
Got it! So which are you? A clubber or a hypocrite hugger?

i'm hypocritical about hugging clubbers.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by rendogg
I'm not saying everyone who collects something here and there is a bad person. I am saying that there needs to be accountability when collecting, not only on a commercial scale but on a private scale as well. We, as hobbyists, need to be ambassadors of our hobby, having an aquarium with life in it is a privilege not a right. If we don't start acting like ambassadors and keep raping the beaches and water, we may lose our privilege. And that will be the fault of irresponsible practices, both commercial and private. The hobby is shifting towards cultured coral, tank bred fish, even cultured live rock. We need to keep progressing not regressing. Why revert back to and support old archaic ways that are unsustainable? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Have you ever collected before? Collecting your own species is much more forgiving to the animals collected. Do you know how many creatures die for each one that ends up at the store? The money local collectors pay for licenses and permits contribute to the protection of native species and the development of fisheries.

You keep saying the OP is irresponsible for collecting the eels with-out having an absolute ID. He did think that they were a type of sand eel which were unprotected. Sometimes as a collector you need to observe the species in captivity awhile before an exact ID can be found. If you catch something when collecting you have to make a choice. Do you let it go or do you want to keep it. Now if you don't have an exact ID of the specimen the question can be tricky one. Is it invasive? If it is it must be destroyed.

The best thing one can do while collecting is to keep an open dialog with your local agencies. Many of the gobies I collected were used for identification purposes for the goby research institute. I even sent them specimens for examination. You can find some of pictures on their site till this day.

[paraletho]

Go Aquabucket. Sometimes things die for science and knowledge I do this for a living. Rendogg yes we have to be as careful as we can and do our best to preserve our environment. I'm not upset with the OP but if he goes out tommorrow or next week and gets ten more cause his died or his buddy wants some I might have something to say. It is not the smartest or the strongest that will survive it is the most adaptable that is mother N's way. Unfortunately that probably leaves us out.

[rendogg]

Originally posted by Aquabucket
Have you ever collected before? Collecting your own species is much more forgiving to the animals collected. Do you know how many creatures die for each one that ends up at the store? The money local collectors pay for licenses and permits contribute to the protection of native species and the development of fisheries.

You keep saying the OP is irresponsible for collecting the eels with-out having an absolute ID. He did think that they were a type of sand eel which were unprotected. Sometimes as a collector you need to observe the species in captivity awhile before an exact ID can be found. If you catch something when collecting you have to make a choice. Do you let it go or do you want to keep it. Now if you don't have an exact ID of the specimen the question can be tricky one. Is it invasive? If it is it must be destroyed.

The best thing one can do while collecting is to keep an open dialog with your local agencies. Many of the gobies I collected were used for identification purposes for the goby research institute. I even sent them specimens for examination. You can find some of pictures on their site till this day.

This really isn't a debate over commercial or privately collected fish. I understand the potential pros and cons of collecting. I could argue that it would all depend on the collector and the circumstances how forgiving it is, how many creatures die every year from people collecting and neglecting, the money collected from "collectors" is a pittance and protection is funded primarily through angling licenses.
If your intent is to ID the animal, why not take a picture or just take one if you really must. If you see a suspect animal, report it, you can't exactly catch and kill anything you suspect to be invasive. The ID is still inconclusive and it very well could be a native species. There wouldn't be so many invasive species if people left them alone. Unfortunately it's ignorant hobbyists that can be blamed for much of it, especially in Florida.
Good point, keep an open dialog with your local agencies while collecting. Try not to bring home a half dozen unknown fish and put them in a 60 gallon.
I am really tired of defending the rights of these eels...if they only knew. With that, I bid you adieu.

[rendogg]

Originally posted by paraletho
Go Aquabucket. Sometimes things die for science and knowledge I do this for a living. Rendogg yes we have to be as careful as we can and do our best to preserve our environment. I'm not upset with the OP but if he goes out tommorrow or next week and gets ten more cause his died or his buddy wants some I might have something to say. It is not the smartest or the strongest that will survive it is the most adaptable that is mother N's way. Unfortunately that probably leaves us out.

Eloquently spoken.

[freddy4130]

news flash!!!! Eels don't have rights. Humans do.

[darkdruid]

Originally posted by RumLad
Do you capture more than you plan to keep

Yes, I always keep more than I need. I trade with several LFS's and individuals for livestock I can't collect myself and for dry goods. And *GASP*!!!!! I even sell some stuff. I stay within the legal collecting limits, but if I'm driving 1400 miles round trip, I'm maxing those limits out.

[darkdruid]

Originally posted by rendogg
If we don't start acting like ambassadors and keep raping the beaches and water, we may lose our privilege.

I tried raping the beaches once, I got a rash from the sand and you talk about crabs!!!

[CoRPS]

Originally posted by darkdruid
I tried raping the beaches once, I got a rash from the sand and you talk about crabs!!!