Eel Identification with pic? Help me out here

[jbird69]

How do you know if these eels have enough room? Or does it not matter because they are classified as "bait"? Their lives are obviously of less consequence than say, a hippo tang...or no, how about a moorish idol? Whats the difference between whats going on here and puting a tang in a 10g tank? Or keeping a moorish idol at all. You could fill a library with posts on RC condemming such practice, and your calling ME a fish hugger? And now I see some of the same guys from those threads defending the OP with this...and you call ME a hypocrite?
...but hey, theyre just bait right?...
I wonder what would happen if I posted that I was using yellow tangs for barracuda bait? or coral beauties, or copperband butterflies. Nah, I'll just use the lowly, unidentified snake eel, of which we know nothing about. What the hell is the difference?

[sipos624]

Bro your getting really emotional about this and it's sort of funny. They are just fish and if done legally he can do whatever he wants. Hell if you buy a (legal) fish for any amount of money its yours to do with as you please. Why is the fish i kill and use for bait so different morally than a ornamental fish of equal abundance? Its not... Who's to say they are not comfortable; as long as the conditions are satisfactory i would say its better than being condemned as cobia bait. An other thing is you are naming regular free swimming fish not other eels, in my book they're two completely different things.

-Mike

[DaytonaJoe]

Originally posted by jbird69
How do you know if these eels have enough room? Or does it not matter because they are classified as "bait"? Their lives are obviously of less consequence than say, a hippo tang...or no, how about a moorish idol? Whats the difference between whats going on here and puting a tang in a 10g tank? Or keeping a moorish idol at all. You could fill a library with posts on RC condemming such practice, and your calling ME a fish hugger? And now I see some of the same guys from those threads defending the OP with this...and you call ME a hypocrite?
...but hey, theyre just bait right?...
I wonder what would happen if I posted that I was using yellow tangs for barracuda bait? or coral beauties, or copperband butterflies. Nah, I'll just use the lowly, unidentified snake eel, of which we know nothing about. What the hell is the difference?

Wow, talk about stretching it. How does he know if the eels have enough room? The same way people figured out whether a hippo tang has enough room. It would be less responsible of him to purchase a moorish idol because they are almost guaranteed to die in a tank. No one knows whether these eels will live or die in his tank, but from the sounds of it they are doing well. If they all died, I bet he wouldn't go and take six more. And he would have done us the favor of demonstrating that this species doesn't fair well in captivity. It's funny you mention using yellow tangs for fishing bait, because that's what they do with them in Hawaii (or so I've heard from someone living out there). There are many fish/eels in the sea.

[darkdruid]

Yellow tangs for fishing bait??? Now you really have me upset!!! You take my favorite fish of all times and reduce it to bait status??
How could you even think that!! What a waste! Your hook might get cleaned or you might sling the bait off when casting!
Why take a chance of losing such a great fish when a tang and tartarsauce on sourdough is soooooooo delicious? Lightly grilled with a dash of garlic salt....yummy!!!

[jbird69]

Originally posted by sipos624
Who's to say they are not comfortable;

-Mike

well "bro", I sure havent seen any new pictures of our comfortable little friends.
At least their in the hands of a compitent "marine biologist" right? BWAAAHHHAAAAA!

I probably kill and eat more fish and game every year than you have in your short, young life. I'm waste deep in deer, elk and salmon guts every fall, and tuna and dorado every summer.

I'm not arguing because I'm a bug hugger. far from it. I'm arguing now because the insults flying out of the defending party are entertaining enough to keep the flame lit. The OP asked a few pages ago for the thread to be locked so no more off topic posts could come in. But what do you all do? you keep fanning the "off topic" flames. I could give a rats *** about those eels. I think what he did was dumb, and it sets a bad example, but I wont be losing any sleep over it.
Fact is, I'll never see it your way and youll never see it mine.

[vito is hooked]

Originally posted by Littleg182
I take it back, might be some type of spoon-nosed eel. However, Fanned out dorsal and anal fins towards base of tail, larger spots, spots located ON the dorsal do not match them. The head does match them though. I give up...identifying juvenile fish is not easy. This has been an interesting thread but I'm done in here. I can't wait till the next time I find something interesting, bring it home, and try to id it! Hopefully I can create an even bigger storm than this one

I hear ya, Dog. I,ll be comeing the beach ALL this weekend (Not to many snowbirds left-) And WHEN I catch one, he,s going on the hook for the MONSTER RED GROUPER that I,ve seen diveing in the BOCA PASS. (ALLMOST TARPON SEASON) ALL PEACE!!

[sipos624]

This has been an interesting thread but I'm done in here.

That is why he hasn't posted any pics and any other posts, that was on page 5. You are the only one who is disagreeing and fanning the flames. A post with just 5 people agreeing with each other would not go 7 pages unless it has boat loads of pics.

I probably kill and eat more fish and game every year than you have in your short, young life.

I'll take that fish bet.

Im not going to post anymore and i would advise you to do so as well to not "fan the flames."

-Mike

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by rendogg
I am really tired of defending the rights of these eels...if they only knew. With that, I bid you adieu.

I just think you are going a bit overboard with your judgment of the OP that's all. If you really want to freak out you should see how many young fish (including native sunfishes) are seined by the thousands for bait by anglers. The OP stumbled upon some eels that were exhibiting some unusual behavior by flopping around out of water. Chances are they would have been consumed by wading birds or some other predator if they continued that behavior. Maybe they dry up in the sun. Maybe another angler comes along and uses them for bait. No one really knows what their fate would have been. At least now many people have seen pics of these eels and may help with ID'ing them which could be useful especially if they end up being invasive which is a distinct possibility.

[rendogg]

Originally posted by Aquabucket
I just think you are going a bit overboard with your judgment of the OP that's all. If you really want to freak out you should see how many young fish (including native sunfishes) are seined by the thousands for bait by anglers. The OP stumbled upon some eels that were flopping around out of water. Chances are they would have been consumed by wading birds or some other predator if they continued that behavior. Maybe they dry up in the sun. Maybe an angler comes along and uses them for bait. No one really knows what their fate would have been. At least now many people have seen pics of these eels and may help with ID'ing them which could be useful especially if they end up being invasive which is a distinct possibility.

Why do you want to keep debating this? No, I don't really want to "freak out" about anything. I know worse things are happening out there, it's just not being posted on RC, therefor I am not commenting on those other atrocities. You are sidetracking with irrelevant points. Freshwater or oceanic Sunfish? Freshwater sunfish are invasive up here. Who knows what would have happened to those eels? Probably they would have waited for the tide and resumed their happy little lives (eels are known for being able to breathe atmospheric oxygen and can survive extended periods out of water). Who are we to decide natures way, if it's not food, leave it alone. I doubt anyone on here can accurately ID these juvenile eels, they need to mature first. Provided they live long enough in the OP's 60 gal tank( doubtful, haven't seen any recent pics, they could be dead already)to grow to maturity. Invasive or native?....find out in a few years.... effective IDing, I think not!

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by rendogg
Why do you want to keep debating this? No, I don't really want to "freak out" about anything. I know worse things are happening out there, it's just not being posted on RC, therefor I am not commenting on those other atrocities. You are sidetracking with irrelevant points. Freshwater or oceanic Sunfish? Freshwater sunfish are invasive up here. Who knows what would have happened to those eels? Probably they would have waited for the tide and resumed their happy little lives (eels are known for being able to breathe atmospheric oxygen and can survive extended periods out of water). Who are we to decide natures way, if it's not food, leave it alone. I doubt anyone on here can accurately ID these juvenile eels, they need to mature first. Provided they live long enough in the OP's 60 gal tank( doubtful, haven't seen any recent pics, they could be dead already)to grow to maturity. Invasive or native?....find out in a few years.... effective IDing, I think not!

I keep debating this because I have collected the very same waters as the OP and you sound like you don't have much experience with collecting in the area. Those eels would not have lasted very long exhibiting that type of behavior from my observations in the field. When animals expose themselves like that down there the large wading birds are usually the first to nab them up. The presence of the OP and his friends may have kept them at bay. I had a spot where a giant egret regularly stood right next to me as I fished. Every once and awhile I would toss him a shrimp that I was using for bait.

You also think ID'ing things is easy but even the experts have difficult times. I collected a goby once that took weeks to ID by the institute. They were also very eager to get in-tank aquarium pics because much of the stock photos they had were from fish taken out of water. In-tank pictures are much better because the fish and it's appendages are not collapsed and their colors and patterns show more. They also gave me a list of gobies to try to collect and ID.

Having a camera in-field is nice but they are not the best at getting a clear ID. Taking pictures in the field can also be more stressful on the specimen as you try to get a good shot. You will also need to get a water proof one.

Collecting can be fun and informative. When people like yourselves start to pass judgment on collectors I tend get a bit defensive.

[rendogg]

Originally posted by Aquabucket
I keep debating this because I have collected the very same waters as the OP and you sound like you don't have much experience with collecting in the area. Those eels would not have lasted very long exhibiting that type of behavior from my observations in the field. When animals expose themselves like that down there the large wading birds are usually the first to nab them up. The presence of the OP and his friends likely kept them at bay.

You also think ID'ing things is easy but even the experts have difficult times. I collected a goby once that took weeks to ID by the institute. They were also very eager to get in-tank aquarium pics because much of the stock photos they had were from fish taken out of water. In-tank pictures are much better because the fish and it's appendages are not collapsed and their colors and patterns show more. They also gave me a list of gobies to try to collect and ID.

Having a camera in-field is nice but they are not always the best at getting a clear ID. You will also need to get a water proof one.

Collecting can be fun and informative. When people like yourselves start to pass judgment on us I tend get a bit defensive.

I never said IDing is easy, actually, I said you likely will not be able to ID them until they're adults.... so what is the point? I have never collected in your area. Assuming these eels were destined to be eaten by birds.... so be it, birds need to eat to. Getting defensive? Why are you generalizing all of my statements? I have been, right from the beginning, commenting on the original post. People keep throwing their own interpretation on my comments/responses. I am not condemning all collectors, I am commenting on the original post.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by rendogg
I never said IDing is easy, actually, I said you likely will not be able to ID them until they're adults.... so what is the point? I have never collected in your area. Assuming these eels were destined to be eaten by birds.... so be it, birds need to eat to. Getting defensive? Why are you generalizing all of my statements? I have been, right from the beginning, commenting on the original post. People keep throwing their own interpretation on my comments/responses. I am not condemning all collectors, I am commenting on the original post.

With-out a proper ID you can't even assume they are juveniles. Posting some pictures here might help with that it might not. We should be encouraging hobbyists like the OP who are studying marine biology and are taking an active interest in studying their local ecosystems of which collecting specimens is a critical component. We should not be condemning them. All the guy wanted was some help with an ID and you and a few others turned this thread into a moral debate.

[rendogg]

I think i've made my opinion clear, there is nothing more I need to debate on this.... it's like flogging a dead horse, it's a futile cause, and I'm quite sick of the side tracking. I stated my case ages ago, go back and read so I don't have to keep reiterating, responding to off topic crap, and whatifs.

[jbird69]

The point really isnt about collecting wildlife. The issue is about harvesting an unidentified species, and the example it sets for 1000s of readers of this thread. It could have very well been a protected species, or perhaps even venomous. Its probably not, but the kid who reads this and thinks "what a great idea" may not be so lucky. How about all the unknown parasites or who knows what kind of secretion is now in the OPs tank?
Its all about the LACK OF ID BEFORE HARVEST. thats the issue.

Okay, say their not a protected species, or venomous, or any of the above. And they do fine in aquaria (highly doubt it) And you DO find a LFS that want them, or give them to a friend. Your friend moves to, or the LFS sells them to say, daytona beach area.
The eels do well...too well. Heck I'll just let them go in the intercoastal. Now theres a previously absent predator in a new ecosystem. This is not a new practice in the state of Florida, which is OVER RUN with invasive species taking over ecosystems thanks largly to irresponsible aquarists, who bought or captured something they KNEW NOTHING ABOUT. They couldnt handle caring for it and didnt have the heart to kill it so they let it go.
I,m not talking about the preverbial gator in the sewer system. Im talking about invasive species introduced by hobbiests threatenning or totally whiping out indigenous species.

The thing that cant be overstated is that this is the internet. Theres no limit to how many people view this stuff. The unbridled collecting of wild animals in ignorance is NOT a good thing. People just gettign into the hobby (or even hard headed experienced bobbyists) need to hear this. There ARE two sides to this discussion, whether you like it or not, and this is as good a platform as any to expose people to it.
In fact, I really hope this thread stays open to discussion. The OP apparently isnt posting anymore, his thread has been derailed, hijacked, pirated...but the topic is important.
Here are some articles about irresponsibilty in the aquarium trade. Both commercial and personal. Obviously this applies to all of us and the fish we keep. But especially those who make rash choices to keep animals they know nothing about.

Why are these articles relevent? Just open your mind a little. its about responsibilty.

KNOW WHAT YOURE BUYING OR CAPTURING, AND HOW TO CARE FOR IT B-E-F-O-R-E YOU BUY IT OR CAPTURE IT.


http://www.csa.com/discoveryguides/s...d/overview.php

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfi...itan-lionfish/

http://news.bio-medicine.org/biology...orida-14435-1/

Here is a similar tragety compliments to irresponsible fisheman...


- DIAMOND LAKE, Ore. - State workers will begin dropping the level of Diamond Lake this month to prepare it for administration of a poison that will wipe out its aquatic life to get rid of an infestation of nonnative fish.
The $5.5 million project in the lake east of Roseburg targets an estimated 90 million tui chub that have altered the environmental balance of the popular fishing lake, creating toxic blooms of algae during the summer that have closed the lake at times to most recreational use.

A gate will open at the north end of the 3,000-acre lake, eventually dropping the level 8 feet from its 50-foot depth and shrinking the lake to 2,600 acres.

In September 65 tons of rotenone, a poison, will be added, killing all fish and aquatic life.

The lake will be restocked with trout in 2007.

About one half of the fish will sink, the other half will float in what is likely to be a smelly, putrid kill-off.

The dead fish will be skimmed off and possibly used for fish fertilizer.

The once deep-blue waters of the mile-high lake have clouded in recent years as the chub proliferated.

Brought in as bait from the Klamath Basin, the chubs multiplied like locusts, elbowed out rainbow trout to the ratio of 200 to 1, dirtied the water and drove campers away.

[JustinReef]

Originally posted by rendogg
I think i've made my opinion clear, there is nothing more I need to debate on this.... it's like flogging a dead horse, it's a futile cause, and I'm quite sick of the side tracking. I stated my case ages ago, go back and read so I don't have to keep reiterating, responding to off topic crap, and whatifs.

I bet you one 'Sand Eel' that you come back again to embarrass yourself some more

Didn't you actually start the sidetracking? Well at least contributed to it with some very nasty 'redneck' comments when you had no real constructive answer to the other side of the argument.

[JustinReef]

Don't need to say that twice...

[plyle02]

Introduction can also occur through nature... like perhaps a storm, or a bigger storm, like a hurricane... This happened when Andrew came through, wiped out many homes, where many non-native species of life were inadvertantly introduced to our natural eco-system. So to say the OP is irresponsible is blashphomy... Sometimes life just happens, especially here in a climate that suits many non-natural species. Probably how the OP stumbled upon the eels in the first place. The fact is that if they are in S FL, they will, naturally or unnaturally, make their way into our eco-system in other parts of FL. So the fact that the OP acquired them for study is really a good thing. If you actually lived here, you would realize that many species of life have become acustomed to a new natural life, unlike their own, a new survival of the fitest life. Right or wrong, it is reality...

[plyle02]

Should us "rednecks" not have reef tanks....

I mean, what if a storm wiped out our state of FL, and our sps corals, lps corals, and soft corals made their way into our FL eco-system?

Would we be irresponsible?

They may not survive in your part of the world, but they just might survive in ours, so let's do what the site was intended for...

SUPPORT!!!

[rendogg]

Originally posted by JustinReef
I bet you one 'Sand Eel' that you come back again to embarrass yourself some more

Didn't you actually start the sidetracking? Well at least contributed to it with some very nasty 'redneck' comments when you had no real constructive answer to the other side of the argument.

What was your contribution, Justinreef? What's your opinion on the original post?....You probably just sidelined the whole time so you could come in and cast judgement. A lot of people read but don't want to say anything because they're afraid of the backlash. YOU put YOURSELF out there Justinreef.
Read again and you'll find the sidetracking started well before I got involved. The "redneck" comment was a bit overboard but it was aimed at a very small crowd, and I meant it.

[rendogg]

Originally posted by plyle02
Should us "rednecks" not have reef tanks....

I mean, what if a storm wiped out our state of FL, and our sps corals, lps corals, and soft corals made their way into our FL eco-system?

Would we be irresponsible?

They may not survive in your part of the world, but they just might survive in ours, so let's do what the site was intended for...

SUPPORT!!!

You're going a little extreme with that, don't you think?

I didn't call you or the other 99% of RC members "rednecks". That was aimed at a few people who thought it would be better to fry them up and take whatever they please.

I am on here to help, generally speaking. There were a lot of inflammatory statements made and they weren't all coming from me.

[JustinReef]

Originally posted by rendogg
What was your contribution, Justinreef? What's your opinion on the original post?....You probably just sidelined the whole time so you could come in and cast judgement. A lot of people read but don't want to say anything because they're afraid of the backlash. YOU put YOURSELF out there Justinreef.
Read again and you'll find the sidetracking started well before I got involved. The "redneck" comment was a bit overboard but it was aimed at a very small crowd, and I meant it.

LOL...I am being called out by 'rendogg'.

You live in Abbotsford and your calling people 'rednecks'? How ironic

I see nothing wrong with the the original poster did or how he defended himself. He posted looking for an ID, never asked if it was right or wrong.

Please slow down, go back and read your posts and then you will understand why us who were on the 'sidelines' think people like you are ridiculously hypocritical. There is no argument here. We all have fish, they all come from the ocean. If you maintain a tank with absolutely nothing but aquacultured LR, corals and captive bred fish, then good for you and maybe your not quite so hypocritical but even then, it doesn't give you the right to tell someone who collected a few eels from a beach they are so wrong. Maybe even saying you disagreed would have been fine but you took it much further than it should even have gone.

[plyle02]

Originally posted by rendogg
You're going a little extreme with that, don't you think?

I didn't call you or the other 99% of RC members "rednecks". That was aimed at a few people who thought it would be better to fry them up and take whatever they please.

I am on here to help, generally speaking. There were a lot of inflammatory statements made and they weren't all coming from me.

Going extreme would be calling people "ignorant rednecks"

As a FYI....

[dc]

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