Adding float switch to Skimmer cup?

[EnderG60]

For what you want its not a bad idea. Either the ball blocking the air intake method or a float switch as you want. The only problem I see is letting the float switch gunk up and stick.

But as for protecting against a skimmer going nuts and overflowing(which ive seen lead to MANY tank crashes when people dose kalk) Its a good idea!

I think the easiest thing to do is plumb an overflow high on the cup back into the sump. that way worse case you get some gunk back into the tank rather then drain it.

[bluetang_2000]

the skimmer is internal, so what ever overflows now is going back to the sump. But I think what I am going to do is connect the drain from the cup to another 1g container, and add the overflow switch to that container instead, that way, no need to drill the skimmer lid.

[Konadog]

I just found this thread.
I installed one in my ATB 1050 skimmer to shut it down if the collection cup becomes full. It's connected to my RKE and will also email me if it shuts down. The reason was if for some reason my skimmer goes nuts I want to know about it. I empty and clean the skimmer long before the switch would shut it down, but for the one day something dies, or happens, I want to know about it.

[bluetang_2000]

Ken, thanks for the pic.

[Konadog]

No problem. I just enlarged one of the vent wholes and use some leftover RO plumbing parts to hold it in place.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by uncleof6
For a skimmer to work efficiently, it must be cleaned no less than every other day. Allowing to the cup to fill to the point that it may overflow is a poor maintenance practice to begin with. Adding a float switch to turn it off is pointless. A far better "mod" would be to add a hole in the bottom of the cup, and run tubing to a remote collection point. But even this encourages poor maintenance practices. I hear people trying to increase the efficiency of the skimmer a thousand times over, yet they are neglecting this most basic concept. With skimmer efficiency, this is the second biggest reason for a lack thereof. The first is an improperly sized skimmer to begin with.

Regards,

Jim

All of this is only true if you skim dry. If you skim wet, its out the window.

[uncleof6]

Originally posted by RichConley
All of this is only true if you skim dry. If you skim wet, its out the window.

Well, ok...... in pulling out only two instruction manuals, at random-- and reading them, would suggest that you are uninformed.

Jim

[RichConley]

Originally posted by uncleof6
Well, ok...... in pulling out only two instruction manuals, at random-- and reading them, would suggest that you are uninformed.

Jim

In what way?

For a skimmer to work efficiently, it must be cleaned no less than every other day.

When a skimmer is run wet, much less particulate builds up in the neck. It will continue to skim much longer before needing cleaning. A skimmer running wet is generally cleaner at 1 week than a dry skimmer is at 24 hours.

Allowing to the cup to fill to the point that it may overflow is a poor maintenance practice to begin with.

Unless you wet skim. When you wet skim, you can fill the cup up in a couple of hours.

Adding a float switch to turn it off is pointless.

Here, I agree.

A far better "mod" would be to add a hole in the bottom of the cup, and run tubing to a remote collection point. But even this encourages poor maintenance practices.

Unless, you know, you wet skim, when you actually need to run remote collection, or empty the cup every couple hours.

I hear people trying to increase the efficiency of the skimmer a thousand times over, yet they are neglecting this most basic concept.

Having a clean skimmer is certainly important. Wet skimming, keeps your skimmer clean for much longer, so theres not nearly as much cleaning needed. The skimmer skims efficiently for much longer periods.



So, pray tell, where exactly am I uninformed?

[bluetang_2000]

when you wet skim, would you want to monitor your salinity more closely since you are removing more saltwater and top off freshwater, unless you have a continuous water changing system. just my thoughts.

[uncleof6]

Posts such as the previous one are designed to be argumentative. I do not respond well to them for this reason. I am not here to argue over information taken directly from instruction manuals. Opinions are a different story. If you were to limit your comment to "every other day, is a bit much" I would probably say fair enough, however in the case of the above:

"Wet vs. Dry Foam
The decision to collect a watery, diluted waste product or a darker, pasty foam is a
matter of personal preference. Simply put, one is not better than the other! Wet
foam contains the same amount of waste products as dry foam, but is diluted with tank
water. In other words, the skimmer is removing the same amount of waste whether it
collects a cupful of yellowish liquid or a ¼� of dark gunk. Depending on how often you
clean and service your system, one might be better than the other. We recommend
frequent cleaning of your skimmer (2-3 times per week) and keeping it adjusted to
collect a reasonably wet, light green-brown foam product"



As I said, your initial response would SUGGEST that you are uninformed. It is the manufacturer that says how to run the skimmers efficiently, not the end user.

Regards,

Jim

EDIT: Referring to post prior to the last one

[RichConley]

The manufacturer suggests a baseline for the typical user. This baseline is based on multiple things, one of them being convenience. The idea that what the manufacturer suggests is the most efficient configuration is a fallacy. No sane manufacturer is going to market their skimmer suggesting that it needs to be emptied three times a day.

Posts such as the previous one are designed to be argumentative.

And how is ".Well, ok...... in pulling out only two instruction manuals, at random-- and reading them, would suggest that you are uninformed. " anything but argumentative?

Wet
foam contains the same amount of waste products as dry foam, but is diluted with tank
water. In other words, the skimmer is removing the same amount of waste whether it
collects a cupful of yellowish liquid or a ¼� of dark gunk.

Completely true. For about 6 hours. After that, because of particulate deposited in the neck of the skimmer running dry, the wet skimmer will run much more efficiently.

[bluetang_2000]

as far as what I am trying to achieve, adding a float sw to the skimmer lid, I think I have the answer.

As regard to dry vs wet skimming, and the effect of salinity, i still have to read up on this. Thanks to all for the helpful response.

[uncleof6]

Originally posted by RichConley
The manufacturer suggests a baseline for the typical user. This baseline is based on multiple things, one of them being convenience. The idea that what the manufacturer suggests is the most efficient configuration is a fallacy. No sane manufacturer is going to market their skimmer suggesting that it needs to be emptied three times a day.




And how is ".Well, ok...... in pulling out only two instruction manuals, at random-- and reading them, would suggest that you are uninformed. " anything but argumentative?





Completely true. For about 6 hours. After that, because of particulate deposited in the neck of the skimmer running dry, the wet skimmer will run much more efficiently.

I raised an objection to the op's original question. I placed a premise on that objection, and explained why I said it the way I did, the subject closed, and the thread continued. Because you wish to pursue this further, the thread is at a standstill waiting to see which one of us will cross the line first with bad info.... I chose at random to remove bias, I have given supporting evidence to go along with my premise, and quoted directly from one of the random chosen manuals, this is the copyright info: AquaC, Inc. © 2005 All rights reserved. Got questions? Send them to info@proteinskimmer.com .And that is what I suggest anyone wishing information on skimmer effiecency regardless of brand, especially if the skimmer does not function as intended or as the manufacturer claims. As I said originally the idea has merit, or I would have blown the entire subject off....however, there are simpler ways to deal with the issue. Good Day Sir.

[hebygb]

Lets assume that not everyone has a controller. I am also a big fan of the waste container, all my systems have one. For those of us that use insump skimmers, here is a scenario which is quite realistic:

Your return pump fails, is shut off by itself, impellar blades snap... The sump level rises and in turn causes your skimmer to fill up, and overflow within a couple of minutes... regardless of how you choose to skim.

In this scenario, having a drain is a great idea, however could cause a crash as your skimmer fills the waste collector eventually leading to your ATO pumping in too much fresh water and quite possibly crashing your salinity and maybe even kalk levels.

In this case, a float switch to turn off the skimmer would be a good thing... A switch in the cup would render a drain hose useless... so it almost has to go into the waste collector.

I would select a height that is relevant to the size system you have, so as not to totally tweak your parameters.

my .02

[bluetang_2000]

hebygb, thanks for the scenario. That is exactly what I am trying to accomplish, whatever reason the skimmer overflows, the waste will go to the waste container, and the skimmer pump will stop by the controller when the level switch activates, also the controller could stop the ATO if this happens. Thus preventing a possible disaster until I come home to investigate what went wrong and reset everything.

[THE ROOK]

Wow, that "scenario" is as far from "realistic" as it gets. If the return pump fails, no matter how much fresh water you pump into the sump from the ato it won't reach the display.

The reason I stopped using a remote container is precisely because if it overflows your stand/carpet gets trashed. If you stick with in-sump skimmer then the worst that can happen is the skimmer floods into the sump. That's really not a big deal & won't cause any harm to the tank.

bluetang- glad you got your answer & good luck.

[stugray]

I'll be just one example to contradict some of the arguments above.

When I was running my 5 gallon bucket skimmer, I could run it for almost two months without cleaning it because I skimmed really wet.

I was in on a discussion on another thread about automated water changes using wet skimming.

I USED TO skim very wet. I could get almost a half gallon of dark tea colored gunk every day.
When I emptied it I would dump in a half gallon of fresh SW.
I ran like this for a year before I replaced my 5 gallon skimmer with a reeflo 200 ( the bucket sprang a leak ).

So making a statement like "you NEED to clean the skimmer twice a week" is not true for me.
If that was a requirement, I probably wouldnt have a skimmer as I dont do ANY maintenance on my tank twice a week....



Back on topic

I was the one on the other thread who suggested a level switch in the skimmer cup. I suggested the following:
When the limit switch tripped ( cup full), a solenoid valve would open & drain the collection cup.
Then a peristaltic pump would turn on & replace the water with fresh SW.
I know there are things to worry about ( salinity swings ), but I am positive the setup could be "calibrated".

Stu

[stugray]

One other thing to note:

I dont use a remote collection container because I want the collection cup to dump back into the skimmer if it gets too full.
With a collection container you cant pump out a few gallons of water in a matter of a few minutes ( my old skimmer could do that ).
If you didnt have a shut off on the remote container, you would have a wet floor.

The way my setup works now is I have a valve on the collection cup drain.
When I see I have collected enough, I open the drain and it goes down the sink drain ( past the pea trap ).

That way I can monitor how much skimmate I am producing & if the skimmer runs amok, it just dumps back inside the skimmer.

I actually ran my DIY skimmer in a way that once the collection cup filled up, it would dump the cleanest skimmate back in the skimmer via the neck.
This way I actually watched as the skimmate got more & more concentrated over time and it ran just like a wet neck.

Stu

[bluetang_2000]

stugray, do you happen to have pic of your setup?

[stugray]

bluetang_2000,

"do you happen to have pic of your setup?"

Which part of what I explained above?

My 5 gallon bucket skimmer is no longer on-line.

here is the link to the build:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1386605

Here is a link to my 'regenerating collection cup':

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1289541

Stu

[Reefer08]

Adding a float valve in your skimmer cup is genius if you have an external skimmer. Id be too worried about my skimmer overflowing if I had an external skimmer and was away from my tank for more than a day.

[Reefer08]

Steve Wests 800g tank crashed due to his external protein skimmer overflowing!

[FLSharkvic]

[QUOTE=uncleof6;14787529]For a skimmer to work efficiently, it must be cleaned no less than every other day. Allowing to the cup to fill to the point that it may overflow is a poor maintenance practice to begin with. Adding a float switch to turn it off is pointless. A far better "mod" would be to add a hole in the bottom of the cup, and run tubing to a remote collection point. But even this encourages poor maintenance practices. I hear people trying to increase the efficiency of the skimmer a thousand times over, yet they are neglecting this most basic concept. With skimmer efficiency, this is the second biggest reason for a lack thereof. The first is an improperly sized skimmer to begin with.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim, YOU'RE A TRIP BRO - no one cleans there skimmer cup every other day and you know it! Just a little FYI, I clean mine ones a week and my Skimz works just as efficient as yours by cleaning the cup every other day!! That has nothing to do with it, it's about making sure your pump is cleaned for it to run efficiently not the cup. If you're cleaning your cup every day, you must a junk filtration system.
According to Mr Jim it's poor maintenance guys if we have a float switch on our skimmers. LOL... If you add a float switch it's not that people are lazy mate, the main purpose is if you happen not to be home and your collection cup is maybe 1/4 or 1/2 being filled with nasty fish crap and your power goes out and then back on, MOST skimmers will go crazy and overflow into the sump. - That the reason why people do it, not b/c there are lazy. Also, your next sentence says, well if you're going to do it have a collection cup but not a float switch - well according to you that's being lazy so why would you even post that idea since your suppose to clean your cup every other day, according to you! See Jim, I have a float switch installed on my Skimz skimmer 163 DC Monzter series and with that being said it's has saved my butt many many many times from Overflowing fish crap into my sump since my float switch is connected to my Apex controller's breakout box... I only let my cup get filled half way and I dump & clean. Remember one thing Jim, it never EVER hurts to have redundancy, redundancy, and redundancy. No matter what Forum you go to there are always going to be trollers


Out,
FLSHarkvictim

Tank Info:
120 display
Ecotech M1 pump
Apex Classic
Apex ALD Module w/ 2 Leak Detector probes
Apex PM2 Module w/ Salinity probe
BreakOut box
Skimz 163 DC Montzer Series skimmer
Custom sump / Refuge
2 TUNZE Turbella 6055 Pumps
2 AI Hydra TwentySix HD LED Fixtures
Celestial C35W Maxspect Refuge Spotlight
Aqua UV Ultraviolet Sterilizer 25w
BRS Dual Media reactor
Eshoops IV Master & Slave Doser
Tunze 3155 Auto Top Off
BRS Peri Pump 50mls/pm
Avast Kalk Reactor
Vertex 1.5L Media Reactor
[/SIZE]

[Chris_S]

Have you considered an Avast Marine davey Jones skimate locker? It has a built in shutoff design, has no moving parts, is affordable and will shut off you skimmer without needing a controller. I use one and it works flawlessly. I can also do a wetter skim with the high capacity. It's worth taking a look at.

[OzIA]

I have float switches on two of mine. I just drilled a hole through a small piece of acrylic and attached it directly to the lid. Then used a coaxial power connector for a quick disconnect to the Apex.