I need serious help, PLEASE!

[educom]

Ok, I had ich in the DT (75G, fish, corals, live rocks, inverts, etc) back some time back, and all the fish died. I kept the tank fallow for 6 weeks, maybe a couple days more. In the interim I setup a new QT and let it completely cycle. I bought two clowns and left them in the QT for 4 weeks. Everything looked good and they were eating great, so I moved them to the previously fallow DT. I bought a Blue Hippo Tang and a Purple Pseudochromis. They stayed in the QT for 4 weeks. Same good health and good eating, so I moved them to the DT. A few days later I bought a Yellow Tang and a Sailfin that are now living happily in the QT for 2+ weeks now. Here's where the problem started. About a week ago we had a power outage and the temp on the DT dropped to 68 degrees. Next morning I raised the temp slowly but the Blue Hippo Tang already showed signs of ich. She fought it pretty good until yesterday, and now the spots are multiplying, and although she still eats like a PIG, she is not as active. My LFS advised me NOT to move the Blue Hippo back to the QT because she'll be bullied by the Yellow Tang and suffer from even more stress. I suggested setting up a 10G hospital tank and treating with hypo or copper, but again the LFS said that would create more stress and I should not do that either. They advised me to wait it out and, because she is agressively eating, that she might beat the ich. The Blue Hippo looks worse today than she ever has, and she's staying more in the rocks whereas she used to swim all over the tank, but she's still eating very well. So ... what should I do? (a) keep her in the tank and hope she'll survive, (b) move her to the QT with the Yellow Tang and Sailfin, treat with hypo or copper and hope she can survive the territorial fish, (c) setup another hospital tank and hope she can survive the stress there of a smaller tank, or something completely different? By the way, none of the other fish in either the DT or QT are showing signs of ich, but I assume that is due to their slime coat.

Water params are all VERY good in both tanks.

Talk about bad luck. I tried to do everything by the book, and I've read dozens of posts here to mitigate the risks.

- Bad luck in Biloxi :-(

[lenny8671]

IMO, can you not just makesure your temp in DT is up to 80 F, then that would brake the lifr cycle of the ICH? Not 100% on this but it might be worht a try....or someone might jump in and help you

[spike78]

I would opt for option C. Move all the fish in the DT to a new hospital tank. Run hypo in your quarantine tanks and wait out the 6 weeks.

When you were quarantining the fish originally, were you running hypo or copper or anything to combat ich? With a high risk fish such as a tang, I think it's best as a healthy tang can continually host ich and not show obvious signs. Maybe just a spot or two. I reckon this is most likely what happened to you. Your tang maintained a low grade infestation in your hospital tank and moved it into your display.

P.S. The only proven cures for Ich is either Hypo or Copper. Raising the temp will do nothing to eradicate it.

[kraze3]

To QT all those fish you are going to need a good sized QT tank. Maybe a big rubbermaid sump, cheap, easy, and you can always use it for something else later on. IMO all of those tangs get too large for a 75 gallon tank. The yellow may be ok but they others should have at least a 6 foot tank with lots of swimming room. I am not part of the tang police. However tangs are known to get ich easily and they may be stressed in your tank.

I agree all the fish need to be treated with hypo or copper, I prefer hypo. I also think you may want to be on the look out for a new LFS. It seems to me that you arent getting the best advice from the one your going to now.

[WaterKeeper]

Move it to that hospital tank and start treating it with copper. It sounds like the disease is too far along for hypo to take effect. The bad news is that the ich is now in the DT and the other fish are infected. All really need to be treated but that 10 gallon is far to small.

I am somewhat amazed by the QT'd fish becoming infected. The temperature drop will not start a disease outbreak and stress does not suddenly make a parasite appear. Protozoa cause ich not environmental conditions, other than cramped quarters. Stress may kill a weakened fish but it will not create a disease in the fish place.

[spike78]

My guess is that the Hippo Tang was always carrying the parasite and managing the infestation. The drop in temperature effected the fish's ability to fight the infestation accounting for the bloom.

[educom]

Ok, thanks for all the great advice. Let me clear one thing up, though. My current QT is 26G with fish only. This is the one with the yellow tang and sailfin in it doing quite nicely. I have proactively treated them with cupramin. Unfortunately when the Blue Hippo was in the QT for 4 weeks I did NOT treat with cupramine, so it is most likely that the Blue Hippo was always carrying a low grade of ich and it reared it's ugly head when the fish got stressed due to the low temp.

One more clarification - when I referred to a 10G tank I was meaning setting up a brand new HT just for the blue hippo to avoid adding her into the 26G QT that the Yellow Tang and Sailfin are in for now. I read where Yellow Tangs can be territorial to their own species if they are the initial occupants to the tank.

It sounds like the consensus is that I should move ALL the fish from the DT for sure and treat with hypo or, more likely, copper. Should I go setup a completely new HT for just the Blue Hippo or will it be ok to move ALL the fish from the DT (2 clowns, 1 blue hippo, 1 purple pseudochromis) in with the existing 26G QT that already has the Yellow Tang and Sailfin? I really don't want to setup another tank, but I will if this is the right course of action to save the fish. I already lost one round of all my fish due to ich and it broke my heart.

[WaterKeeper]

Once ich infests a tank it will infect a host fish on a regular basis. Unfortunately placing all the DT fish in a hospital tank with treatment and keeping the QT fish in that tank is about the only option for the next month or so. While the DT is fallow, raise the temp to about 85°F to speed the cysts to develop and shorten the infection period.

[BeginnerReefer]

I would say set up a new QT tank, and introduce the two tangs at the same time to avoid conflict. Then- treat with copper for 4 weeks, and start the QT over again for all of your fish. THEN put them in your DT...

I know I kind of elaborated a little more than you need, but hey, to much info never hurt anyone.. right?

[sailoracu2]

Hears an old remedy, bring Ro water up to tank temp and dip the fish in the Ro water. Most of the ich will fall off, and then place it in the QT tank with copper. I used this method 20+ years ago when I started in the hobby.

[educom]

Ok, I'm off to buy another tank to setup as a HT. This way I can keep the yellow tang and blue hippo tang separated but they can all get treatment. After treatment I will introduce them both to the DT at the same time.

I'm thinking I'll move the 2 clowns and the 1 purple pseudochromis to the existing 26G HT and treat them there because the nitro cycle is already well established? I'll just have to keep an eye on the water params with this many fish in this size tank. Any thoughts on this?

[EnglishRebel]

A related question. Is it advisable to treat ALL fish while in QT with copper or just observe? Seems as if the hippo had ich but it was not readily visible. I ask the question because I have two clowns in QT right now and they're eating well. Should I treat with copper as a matter of course as part of the QT process?

[alextheromanian]

maybe you can remove everything but fish from DT and turn that into a shospital tank for the time being....? itll save you the trouble of catching fish...itll save the fish the stress of being moved.


good luck!

[educom]

Alextheromanian, I don't think that is a good idea. Here's why. In order to do what you're suggesting I'd have to remove all the live sand, all the live rock, all my coral, and all my inverts which includes snails, crabs, shrimp, and anenome's. That would be much more time consuming than catching four fish.

Now, if I decided to move all of that stuff, which I never would, I could only treat the tank with hyposalinity because once I added copper to the DT I could NEVER again put any of the non-fish stuff I just moved out back into the DT, forever rendinging my DT to be a fish only. Besides, even if I moved the non-fish, I'd have to setup another tank with special lighting just for them.

It would be much easier, less time consuming, and less costly to just setup another hospital tank for the fish only.

[alextheromanian]

now that i think of it youre right....

what made me suggest that is that i always knocked rocks and corals over trying to catch fish...and made a mess and since i figured that would happen anyways you might aswell.


but the last time i had to remove fish i made a trap out of a bottle ...it actually worked out perfecty

[WaterKeeper]

I agree; buy the fish a bottle of booze and they are easy to catch after they knock it off.

Exactly right on the reply Ed; you don't want to use the display as a hospital tank. I think what you plan is the best method.

Alan,

Yes you must treat all fish. Some fish never show any outward signs of ich but can be carriers.

I do feel you major problem with the clowns it that there is no water in your tank but that is a different problem all together.

Alan's Tank Build Thread

[EnglishRebel]

Originally posted by WaterKeeper
I agree; buy the fish a bottle of booze and they are easy to catch after they knock it off.

Exactly right on the reply Ed; you don't want to use the display as a hospital tank. I think what you plan is the best method.

Alan,

Yes you must treat all fish. Some fish never show any outward signs of ich but can be carriers.

I do feel you major problem with the clowns it that there is no water in your tank but that is a different problem all together.

Alan's Tank Build Thread

No Tom, I didn't call you a clown.

I'll have to get some copper treatment from my LFS next week. How long should they stay in copper -- the length of the QT?

[WaterKeeper]

Follow the product directions but the infected tank should be fallow for 4-6 weeks.