Why the heck didn't I quarantine?

[Aquarist007]

I have always quarantined every purchase I have made and to this point I have never had ich or any other disease in my system.
(well almost I lost a copper banded butterfly fish but with no external evidence to a disease)

I am anticipating this thread to be about cases where you have experienced an outbreak of disease in your tank that has been either a disaster or a real pita to recover from.

and most importantly could have been prevented if you had quarantined.

[xJake]

Honestly, if you cannot or will not quarantine, (which I do NOT advise) then at the very least you should perform a freshwater dip before placing the animal in the display tank. Every fish I have ever freshwater dipped has survived (not that that really proves anything, only that I've been lucky with my fish), and I truly think that it is a simple enough procedure that everyone should do it with new arrivals.

It may be ineffective against more virulent infections such as C. irritans (ich), but it does kill off common pests like flukes and other such external parasites that can overwhelm an immune-compromised fish and cause fairly sudden and unexpected death.

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by xJake
Honestly, if you cannot or will not quarantine, (which I do NOT advise) then at the very least you should perform a freshwater dip before placing the animal in the display tank. Every fish I have ever freshwater dipped has survived (not that that really proves anything, only that I've been lucky with my fish), and I truly think that it is a simple enough procedure that everyone should do it with new arrivals.

thanks Jake and I appreciate your cautions

I am really looking for real cases of disasters here---do you know of any you could report.

[BangkokMatt]

No disasters here.

[Patrick12]

I had two tanks full of fish pass several years back. When I started in the 80's QT was not really practical...but luckily not needed like it is today. I do not know if the custody chain was better or the parasites just not so prevalent, but whatever it was, I only ever had one fish with crypt. When I started back up, I did not QT my fish. Seemingly, as I would make the tank near full with fish, they would all break out and start dropping like flies. I did lots of reading and research and that was enough to scare me towards QT everytime. I just think it irresponsible to be the driving force for these beautiful creatures to be taken from their paradise homes and not afford them every opportunity for success we can. QT allows so many options to care for infected or parasite riddled fish. It really is the only right thing to do and in the longrun.....the cheaper way to go as well......not to mention the PITB aspect of not QTing fish and having an outbreak in a fully loaded system.

[Crustman]

Everytime I add a fish to my tank, it is just like spinning the roulette wheel of fate. To date the gamble has paid off. I have no quarantine tank. I do run a UV sterilizer when I introduce a new fish.

[xJake]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
thanks Jake and I appreciate your cautions

I am really looking for real cases of disasters here---do you know of any you could report.

Haha, fortunately for me (or "unfortunately" in the case of wanting to educate others), I did my research prior to making any purchases for my own personal tanks, and I always quarantined and properly treated for any disease before adding any animals to my display tank.

The only experience I really ever had with "disaster" was this past fall in the marine lab where I volunteer. The lab coordinator ordered a combination of Caribbean animals and Indo-Pacific animals. The Caribbean animals all arrived with horrible fluke infestations, which was unknown to the aforementioned person, who was responsible for both ordering the fish and acclimating the new arrivals. Since most animals we care for are kept in their own separate tank anyway, we quarantined very few animals (a policy I intend to "revise" - a.k.a. completely get rid of - for future shipments).

Unfortunately, one of the tanks received a mixture of both Caribbean and Indo-Pacific animals (not my decision). The flukes quickly spread to the Indo-Pacific animals and they began to die off extremely quickly due to what several lab assistants theorized to be a lack of immune resistance/response to the "Caribbean" flukes, or my thought was that it was just a case of a compromised immune system due to stress from shipping as well as poorly executed (basically non-existent) quarantine procedures.

As I mentioned above, I wasn't responsible for any of the decisions made which caused the event, as I was considered only a "novice" to most of the lab assistants and was not yet well known for my skills as an aquarist. I did, however, perform a necropsy on the first animal that died, Z. flavescens (Yellow Tang).

During the necropsy, I quickly discovered the massive fluke infestation from a simple gill scrape - which became obvious after viewing the gill tissue under a microscope and seeing hundreds of "fluke" protozoans attached to the tissue cells. I was able to treat all of the fish with freshwater dips and subsequent quarantine in a separate tank until the reproductive cycle of the flukes had ceased in the original display and the remaining cysts had perished. Which, IIRC, is the recommended procedure for treating flukes, or at the very least it was the treatment that I had read about.

Only 3 of the original 15 fish perished, and I believe it was my quick diagnosis and treatment of the parasitic infection that helped to stop this potential disaster. I basically saved several hundred dollars worth of fish from a completely avoidable death.

Fortunately, I've been chosen as the lab coordinator for this summer and for next year (and hopefully for the rest of my time working in the marine lab), so hopefully we can avoid anymore of these "brushes with disaster."


On a side note, I had a brief experience while working at the Toledo Zoo, where a large number of new arrivals became infected with Uronema. The treatment for this parasitic infection is almost impossible after the fish begin showing symptoms, and it subsequently spread like wildfire through many of the quarantine systems there. Luckily, BECAUSE they quarantined all of their new fish, they lost only a very small portion of their overall captive fish population and it was able to be isolated to only a single holding/quaratine system. This, of course, is compared to the tens of thousands of dollars worth of display-size fish that they could have potentially lost if they had not quarantined.

Uronema, at this point in time, is almost a guaranteed death sentence for a tank full of fish, and this experience at the aquarium only reaffirmed my solidarity in the practice of quarantining everything that I can - within reason, of course.

[KDDG]

My husband and I had a disaster in our first tank. However, it was not due to unquarantined fish, but rather a big piece of rock. We took a piece of rock wih zoanthids from a friend's tank. It came with oodinium and wiped out our whole tank. We are currently building a tank a little over 300 Gal. I plan to quarantine everything! I know that once something is put in this tank I will not be able to get it out easily, so nothing goes in until it is cleared.

[iFisch]

I will be dipping corals from now on. Just purchased some Brightwell's Lugol solution.

Fish I buy locally, have been QT'd for at least 1 month before they are for sale, and the place I go to, refuses to sell you a sick fish. They clearly write that they use practices used in QT'ing such as copper, and verbally and physically tell each customer buying fish NOT to add any of the water into your tank. Not that I would, but new people who might not know better.


The only thing I can think of that isn't guaranteed QT'd is inverts. And how would one go about QT'ing and identifing anything bad on a shrimp or crab?

[Tylt33]

I did my normal newb thing and stocked a three month old 175g system with 15 or so fish over the course of a month and a half. Ich killed EVERYTHING. Mandarins, gobies, tang, everything from the most "resistant" to the "least" resistant. In my reading on ich I read something about new tanks (less than a year old) being most susceptible to wipe out cases... I'd have to agree.

I quarantined a new group (three fish) for over five weeks while keeping the tank fallow at 82 degrees. The fish showed no signs of illness, ate well. I treated with PraziPro as a precaution anyways. Added the fish... a few days later they had spots on their fins, and have continued to have them over the last three months or so. Looks like a mild case of ich that they're continually battling off...

[PRDubois]

Sorry, No disasters. I have never QT fish and have been very lucky. I have always bought locally from LFS that has a good rep.

Saying that, I am planning to QT in the future due to the fact I figure someday my luck will run out.

I have always dipped corals and have caught many hitchhikers by doing so.

[iFisch]

Originally posted by PRDubois

Saying that, I am planning to QT in the future due to the fact I figure someday my luck will run out.

I have always dipped corals and have caught many hitchhikers by doing so.

Me too.. some day.. soon...

[Michael]

also i think folk over complecate a QT and frighten some new reefers off with their comments about them, personally i think a see through plastic bucket or large container say 10 gallon for example is fine for a fish or 2, basically it can be a temporary set up.

just siphon 10 gals of water out of your DT into the container and put some of the live rock in there with some flow and a heater and thats all needed, the loss from the DT can be replenished with some new water as if you were just doing a water change.

then just keep an eye on the QT by means of testing and do water changes as and when needed, when the 4 week period is over add the fish to the DT and shut down the QT.

obviously if your constantly adding stock then a permenant 1 is better but it doesnt have to be complecated at all.

[PRDubois]

I dont see where anyone here has said QT is hard or that you should not do it.

I think we have just said that we are lazy, risk taking and maybee glut for punishment.

[BangkokMatt]

Also, true QTing should only have one fish due to the spreading potential of disease and parasites as well as maintaining a calm environment to ensure no stress and the best potential for enticing feeding.

[Michael]

Originally posted by PRDubois
I dont see where anyone here has said QT is hard or that you should not do it.

I think we have just said that we are lazy, risk taking and maybee glut for punishment.

i never said here paul, i stated in general on the forums, i see it all the time, whatever

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Tylt33
I did my normal newb thing and stocked a three month old 175g system with 15 or so fish over the course of a month and a half. Ich killed EVERYTHING. Mandarins, gobies, tang, everything from the most "resistant" to the "least" resistant. In my reading on ich I read something about new tanks (less than a year old) being most susceptible to wipe out cases... I'd have to agree.

I quarantined a new group (three fish) for over five weeks while keeping the tank fallow at 82 degrees. The fish showed no signs of illness, ate well. I treated with PraziPro as a precaution anyways. Added the fish... a few days later they had spots on their fins, and have continued to have them over the last three months or so. Looks like a mild case of ich that they're continually battling off...

thanks tylt33--this is exactly the kind of post I was anticipating here

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by KDDG
My husband and I had a disaster in our first tank. However, it was not due to unquarantined fish, but rather a big piece of rock. We took a piece of rock wih zoanthids from a friend's tank. It came with oodinium and wiped out our whole tank. We are currently building a tank a little over 300 Gal. I plan to quarantine everything! I know that once something is put in this tank I will not be able to get it out easily, so nothing goes in until it is cleared.

I am sorry for your disaster but I do appreciate you posting it here.
Corals are not always considered qt'able but from your post the same things can happen as with fish

[Aquarist007]

Originally posted by Michael
i never said here paul, i stated in general on the forums, i see it all the time, whatever

Michael could you possibly mean this thread

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...=&pagenumber=2

[BangkokMatt]

Oh c'mon! Yes..ich can kill but usually only if other factors are involved which cause undue stress to the fish. The majority of reef tanks carry ich (QT'd or not)but with good water quality and stable params it poses no real threat and will usually clear up quickly.

This is a petty thread based and posted due comments made in another thread. What's the point? Some QT some don't!

Of course Qting properly will help in avoiding these situations but many successful tanks run by experienced reefers don't QT all fish / rocks / corals etc.

[Michael]

Originally posted by capn_hylinur
Michael could you possibly mean this thread

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...=&pagenumber=2

well some posts in that thread are the same as many others i see capn, thats why i said most new reefers can be put off by it, i also agree with bankokmatt though, it is just a case of some do some dont, he dosent you do, i do, others dont, i only have 3 fish and have QT them, i havent had white spot myself, but perhaps im lucky, hope i never get it, the point is some guys are suggesting it stresses fish and should be avoided, well thats a good starting point for friendly debate

[Toddrtrex]

Originally posted by BangkokMatt
Oh c'mon! Yes..ich can kill but usually only if other factors are involved which cause undue stress to the fish. The majority of reef tanks carry ich (QT'd or not)but with good water quality and stable params it poses no real threat and will usually clear up quickly.

This is a petty thread based and posted due comments made in another thread. What's the point? Some QT some don't!

Of course Qting properly will help in avoiding these situations but many successful tanks run by experienced reefers don't QT all fish / rocks / corals etc.

I have QT'ed twice in all my years --- once for a pair of WC clowns (( was worried about brook, they didn't get it )) and right now for a female Potter's angel that I am going to pair up --- just wanted her eating before I do the pairing.

I have never had a tank wiped out from not QT'ing, never lost a fish to ick -- have had a few get it, but they recovered on their own, with no intervention from me -- unless you count making sure the water parameters were spot on.

I can see the benefits of it, and would recommend it for most people. But for me, putting a fish in an established tank, with stable water parameters, lots of live rock -- for picking at -- is better then putting them in a sterile QT which could have unstable water parameters.

[CloruroDiSodio]

After a FW dip with methylene blue I QT my fish for about 2 weeks. I know a lot of people wait longer but as long as I buy them from my LFS that I know very well I feel comfortable. If I were to order one online for example I would QT for at lest 4 weeks.

[drparker]

I got a Foxface from a place that you wouldn't normally buy fish from, half the tanks have cryno and at least one always has a dead fish in it. But I couldn't pass up a $5 Fox and put him into a 10gal QT. Well three weeks later I pickup a great little Coral Beauty and was too lazy to setup a bigger QT So I put the fox, who was doing great, into the DT and beauty into QT.

Sure enough two week later I had Ich in my 75gal DT. Then I had to start the process of setting up a 40gal QT, Getting buckets and tubs to hold 75gal of water. drain the main tank to only an inch. Catch all my fish move to QT and refill the DT. This took several hours. I ultimately lost a Kole Tank and a Royal Gramma, the Royal was my first saltwater fish we'd had it for three years.

Bottom Line I was too lazy to spend and hour setting up a larger Qt for six weeks. So instead I spent 4 hours setting it up for the whole tank, lost two fish and it took 4 weeks longer.

[Michael]

Originally posted by CloruroDiSodio
methylene blue

not sure if its safe for clowns cloruro, be careful, its not good for fish with smooth scales, i know its bad for clown loaches, of course they are freshwater but have a similar scale less body, not sure apart from that if its safe or not for marine fish, a little google later for me i think