best 20k bulb for sps color and growth

[FishBoy38]

Thats what it SHOULD be like, but its not. I have eliminated too many variables. These e-ballasts seem to drive the crap out of the bulbs. Also, is this a 250 watt se problem only? Or is it a problem of the reflectors trapping too much heat and warming up the bulb too much? It is wierd though, because even that I have proved wrong with many of the bulbs as it happens right away without a delay for "warming up".

[FishBoy38]

Driven...I am thinking that way too, since they are said to take being overdriven. I have tried the xm 20k with the same result. The reeflux 20k is actually made by coralvue and this is the bulb that I am currently running that is seemingly bleaching some of my corals, so unfortunately thats a no go either.

[dailydriven911]

Ahh I see. So your running the reeflux 20k. I ran the coralvue 20k a couple years ago and it was rather white. I love the radium bulb and I'm liking the ushio 20k but it does have a purple tint which I'm not sure if I like. It hasn't broken in yet so I'll wait another week to critique the bulb. If I could go with the radium I would in a hb! To bad they don't make the 250w de bulbs...

[yardboy]

Since the question was how to get color and growth from a 20K, I'm assuming a higher PAR bulb would give greater growth.
Using Sanjay's site, and since I couldn't find any "Happy Reefing" bulbs, and since he didn't seem to have tested Radium's, I went with EVC bulbs in a 250W DE with PFO HQI ballasts. I've gotten great growth using those bulbs, but if someone can show me a higher PAR value with another available bulb, my next changeout will be with them.

[loweryster]

What about the Giesemann Blue 20k DE? I have one, ran for like a month, I thought it was too dim. I'm thinking about putting it back in. Has anyone had any luck with color/growth using this bulb? I'm using their 14.5k right now.

[giants4pc]

I ran the 250 watt SE Reeflux 12k's under lumenbrights and the coralvue e ballasts for a year. It was bright but too white. I switched to the Reeflux 20k two months ago. I was a bit skeptical because I was contemplating the Radiums. I, too, was searching for great color with decent par at least. If you want a bluer look, DO NOT go with the reeflux 20k's. They look just as white as the 12k's. I am not happy with the color at all and complained to the company about how they justify these being a 20k bulb. If you want a true 20k, stay away from these.

[FishBoy38]

I agree. But throw them on some magnetics and they are BLUE once more. I dont get it. There should not be that much of a difference. And it is the same story with the aquaconnect, sps, xm and every other bulb ive tried....BLUE with magnetics and WHITE with the coralvue e-ballasts. Other e-ballasts do not seem to have anywhere near as dramatic of an affect although one can be noted. Nothing like this though.

[BeanAnimal]

While photos of tanks are nice, they are useless for the purposes of choosing a bulb spectrum. Even if we assume that the person posting the photo sees perfect" color rendering, each and every one of us is seein g something different.

Here are some reality checks

1) reach in front of you and press the "menu" or "settings" button on your monitor and change the color temperature while looking at the above photos... See the world of difference?

2) Next time you are at your favorite computer store, pull up the same photos on 5-10 of their computers... take note of how wildly the actual color representation differs!

3) Take several photos of your own tank with room lights on... then off, then with different distances and white balance settings. Notice the world of difference between each photo? What about after you touch them up or use the "auto" or "fix" settings of your favorite photo editor?

4) Ever wonder why reputable bulb manufacturers don't try to coney color rendering via photographs? That goes for not only reef lighting, but any type of lighting!

A snapshot displayed over the internet on your non calibrated monitor is 100% useless. Before anybody says "well it is close enough", please see the reality checks above, they will show that there is no "close enough" with this type of situation.

The point is, that if you want to see what a bulb looks like, then you need to find an LFS or somebody that can show you the bulb in person.

In any case, are you looking for a VERY blue bulb? Are actinics out of the question? Most VERY blue bulbs have a much lower PAR than their 14K (whiter) or 10K (yellow to white) counterparts.

VERY blue bulbs also do not do a great job at helping coral colors to pop compared to true actinics. So you don't really get "the best of both worlds" with a 20K bulb. You get lower PAR and lesser POP compared to a 10K-14K setup with an actinic or two.

[yardboy]

Ya know Bean, I can't argue with you there. Of course a pic is worthless, but I think that wavelength graphs are worth something, and can definitely show the difference between bulbs and ballasts.
Funny thing is, while I use EVC 20K's, they come on during the day when I'm not there, so I do most of my tank viewing under VHO actinics. Now you want to talk about "POP" and blue!

[smariner]

Originally posted by yardboy
Since the question was how to get color and growth from a 20K, I'm assuming a higher PAR bulb would give greater growth.
Using Sanjay's site, and since I couldn't find any "Happy Reefing" bulbs, and since he didn't seem to have tested Radium's, I went with EVC bulbs in a 250W DE with PFO HQI ballasts. I've gotten great growth using those bulbs, but if someone can show me a higher PAR value with another available bulb, my next changeout will be with them.

Your post is in violation of the terms and conditions of use of this web site and has been edited. Further violations will result in revocation of your posting privileges.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by yardboy
Ya know Bean, I can't argue with you there. Of course a pic is worthless, but I think that wavelength graphs are worth something, and can definitely show the difference between bulbs and ballasts.
Funny thing is, while I use EVC 20K's, they come on during the day when I'm not there, so I do most of my tank viewing under VHO actinics. Now you want to talk about "POP" and blue!

Yup.. but not many of our brains do a good job correlating wavelength graphs with what our brain sees as color

Why not offset your photo period so that you can enjoy the main lighting?

[loweryster]

I should be receiving my EVC 20k 250watt DE tomorrow. Comparing it to a Giesemann 20k, what should I expect? I’m hoping for better growth/color in my sps.

[yardboy]

EVC will be bluer and 10% brighter.



Feed your corals, maintain alkalinity and calcium, keep phosphate and nitrate non-detect, lots of water movement and your corals will grow and have good color.

Was that too simplistic sounding, you think? It's worked for me.

[loweryster]

Sounds fannntastic!

[smariner]

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[loweryster]

I just installed my new EVC 250watt 20k DE. It’s noticeably brighter than the G-man 20k, it has good actinic qualities and oh, it’s blue. So far I’m impressed let’s see how the corals respond.

[Garage1217]

Hmm having a hard time finding EVC's website..?

[loweryster]

The word is that Chad over at reefscience.com owns the name.

[smariner]

Your post is in violation of the terms and conditions of use of this web site and has been edited. Further violations will result in revocation of your posting privileges.

[nelson4u]

loweryster,

Thanks for the info on the EVC bulbs. Are you sure the Geisman and the Ushio 20K bulbs are the same ?

Do you have any idea how the EVC 20K compares visually to the Phoenix 14K ? I really am interested to see the extra par that the EVC 20k puts out. I didn't especially like how blue the Phx 14K was and didn't think the actinic quality of the Phx. was that great.

Has anyone compared the Phoenix 14k to these EVC 20K bulbs ?

I was pretty set on the Usio 20k, because I read that it gives off a nice white- Blue/violet, however after seeing the charts the Ushio seems to be a lot dimmer than the Phx. 14k I am using now and my tank is 28" deep.

I just don't want another bulb that is a washed out looking blue that in my opinion the Phx. kind of looks like. I also don't want a noticeably dimmer bulb.

I would love to hear more comparisons of these three bulbs (phx 14k, Ushio 20K, and EVC 20K)

[Garage1217]

The phoenix will look like diluted windex compared to the ushio 20K which is the same as the Aqualine AB 20K. I am not sure if the giesemann is the same as I have never heard that it was built by ushio / BLV. But then again, I learn somthing new every day Also the AB20K shows 4 or 5 higher ppfd than the giesemann with all other things being the same.

Are all of Sanjays bulbs he tests brand spanking new? Or are some used?

[nelson4u]

The A/B - Usio 20K looks like it only has about 55% of the par output as the Phx 14K according to Sanjays graph here.

Is this true that if I go with the Usio 20K it will be nearly 55% less par output than the Phx 14K I have now ?

[nelson4u]

According to this chart the EVC 20k looks like it will be way more bluer than the Phx. 14K I have now and I think they are too blue.

Won't I be making a bad choice going with the EVC 20K as it is more blue and less par than the Phx. 14K I have now ?

Seems like I would be better off staying with the Phx 14k than going with a bluer EVC 20K which will be dimmer than what I have now.

This is getting frustrating now after studying the charts.

I really wish someone could tell me just how much dimmer "visually with the eye" (not on the chart), that the Ushio 20K would be compared to the Phx 14K I have now.

I think I would really like the Ushio color but if the light output is only nearly 50% of the Phx 14k as the chart shows, I'm not sure the Ushio will cut it. As I mentioned earlier my tank is 28" deep.

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated

[nelson4u]

Originally posted by Garage1217
The phoenix will look like diluted windex compared to the ushio 20K which is the same as the Aqualine AB 20K. I am not sure if the giesemann is the same as I have never heard that it was built by ushio / BLV. But then again, I learn somthing new every day Also the AB20K shows 4 or 5 higher ppfd than the giesemann with all other things being the same.

Are all of Sanjays bulbs he tests brand spanking new? Or are some used?

Garage1217,

Since you have used the Phx 14k and then went to the Ushio 20K, can you please try to explain to me how much dimmer the Usio 20k is than the Phx 14k ? I really think I would like the Ushio color, but it seems like it is much dimmer than my phx 14k.

How deep is your tank ? Mine is 28" deep so I am worried about going any dimmer if it really is noticable.

Thanks

[yardboy]

I really don't think you are going to get a better judgement of the color and intensity of metal halide bulbs than with Sanjay's site. Looking at a bulb by eye won't help much since the iris of your eye will adjust the light level to optimum, making it really difficult to qualitatively compare intensities, unless they are side by side on a tank. Trying to determine what bulbs are the best for your ballast, tank and eyes can be a frustrating (and expensive) proposition. And the fact is, no one can tell you what to get that will make you happy. Everyone has their favorite depending on their situation.
Good luck with finding what you want!