Copepod Cultures

[RandomHero426]

I know that tiggerpods arent a good copepod for cultures, which kind is good for them?

[jer77]

The large "Tiger Pods" or Tigriopus sp. and Acartia tonsa are called Calanoid copepods I believe. They can be cultivated but are harder for reasons like they require a specific type of phytoplankton and for the case of Tiger pods, they normally live in somewhat cooler waters. I believe Mysidopsis bahia, Nitokra lacustris and Tisbe sp. are called Harpacticoid Cultures which are smaller than Calanoid copepods but are easier to breed living in warmer waters and less picky on what food they will eat. There are many places which sell a mix of unspecified Harpacticoid copepod species. There are also places which sell bottles of a single species.

Here are some websites:

http://www.seafarm.com/copepod/

https://livecopepods.com/zencart/

http://www.ipsf.com/

http://www.essentiallivefeeds.com/

http://www.aquaculturestore.com/index.html

[nikon187]

as in to feed a mandarine? What about starting a hang on refugium to grow pods?

[jer77]

Seeding a refugium is reportedly more successful when Harpacticoid copepods are used. I have not had much luck with starting a population of copepods by just releasing a bottle's worth into the refugium in a single dose all at once. I find its much better to have a living and breeding culture separate from the aquarium that produces copepods consistently and in large enough numbers so that a percentage of them can be released into the aquarium or refugium at numerous intervals instead of a single addition. This seems to be much more effective and much more reliable at establishing a consistent population of Harpacticoid copepods.

If you are using the pods mainly for feeding mandarins, breeding and establishing a separate culture of Harpacticoid copepods for populating the display tank or target feeding is still worthwhile. However, most people are culturing Calanoid copepods, like Tigger Pods, which is somewhat harder, but still possible. It is a little harder still to try and populate the DT or refugium with them because of the difference in water temperature. They mostly target feed the cultured Calanoid copepods to the mandarins and other plantivores directly and just stick to culturing them in a separate tank.

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by jer77
The large "Tiger Pods" or Tigriopus sp. and Acartia tonsa are called Calanoid copepods I believe. They can be cultivated but are harder for reasons like they require a specific type of phytoplankton and for the case of Tiger pods, they normally live in somewhat cooler waters. I believe Mysidopsis bahia, Nitokra lacustris and Tisbe sp. are called Harpacticoid Cultures which are smaller than Calanoid copepods but are easier to breed living in warmer waters and less picky on what food they will eat. There are many places which sell a mix of unspecified Harpacticoid copepod species. There are also places which sell bottles of a single species.

You've got it a little mixed up. Tigriopus sp. are a harpactoid and Acartia tonsa are a calanoid. Calanoids are typically smaller. Both Tigriop. sp. and Acartia Tonsa are an excellent species to culture.

Mysids aka Mysidopsis bahia are a mysid and neither a calanoid nor a harpactoid copepod,

Tiger Pods AKA Tigger-Pods (Tigriopus calificornus) have a wide range of habitats, reportedly ranging from the tip of Baja (Mexico) to Alaska. They do not live in the ocean but rather the upper splash zone tide pools or rather "cesspools". They get very hot in the summer with triple strength salinity at times and very little to feed upon other then phytoplankton, bacteria, decaying organic matter and odd things like sea bird guano. The splash zone is the uppermost tide pools. They don't get splashed every wave, more like every few days at time.

[RandomHero426]

So ''tigger pods''would be ok to use? I am setting up a dwarf tank and I am going to keep it fishless for quite a while so I thought of putting some pods in there and starting a culture also.

[reefscape15]

Originally posted by nikon187
as in to feed a mandarine? What about starting a hang on refugium to grow pods?

+1. I have had a 2.5gal fuge for about 2 years or so, and never added pods to mine. Things just started growing from the LR and Algae that i added. There's TONS of pods in there, and in one spot they are so think that you can't see through the mass of swimming creatures

[RandomHero426]

I would add one but me tank will be 2 gallons so its not very big

[reefscape15]

oh wow! Thats tiny! Wait...is it 2 or 20? Your current tanks thing says 20gal long. I had the 2.5gal fuge on a 20gal high and it was prob the best thing i ever did for the tank

[RandomHero426]

I just took my 20 long down and I am now setting up a 2 gallon dwarf seahorse tank until I can move and then set up my ''dream tank''

[GreshamH]

Tigriopus californicus do not make great dwarf seahorse food from what seahorse people have told me. They have large spins that can clog the throat of dwarf and larval seahorses if they eat to many at once. I'd go with tisbe , tonsa or nitokra for such a tank.

BTW soft or pyrex? Er, torch or glory hole?

[RandomHero426]

Mostly gloryhole I've worked with the borosilicate aka pyrex somewhat but workin at a furnace is much more fun

[RandomHero426]

Oh and where is a good place to find those types of copepods? Ice bought some from eBay once but I have no idea what kind they are.

[GreshamH]

100% agree. Borosilicate work really should be called glassblowing IMO. I've seen soft glass guys pick up torch work in a day but there is no way a torch guy could pick up soft glass within even a month.

[RandomHero426]

It takes a long time to get even the basics down for furnace work! I'm just a beginner myself but I worked at the glass meuseum here in corning and just loved it.

[GreshamH]

I hate to promote the competitors but truth be told I'm a hobbyist first and truly want to see people succeed

In this order...

1. http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bi...ory=Foods-Live

2. http://livecopepods.com/

Since your interested in them for seahorses i would suggest giving Dan a buzz at Seahorse Source (first link) since that's what they are pro's at.

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by RandomHero426
It takes a long time to get even the basics down for furnace work! I'm just a beginner myself but I worked at the glass meuseum here in corning and just loved it.

Small small world. My grandfather worked at Corning, maybe you've got some of his old work on display cool job. Being on the west coast I've caught Chihuly talk at a few local art schools. I know you know but just in case any other readers are interested... http://www.chihuly.com/

[RandomHero426]

Ha yes my dad worked at corning for like 40 years, and chihuly, there's a piece in the admissions lobby there and everybody flips over him I don't know why his stuff is quite odd! Lol

[jer77]

Originally posted by GreshamH
You've got it a little mixed up. Tigriopus sp. are a harpactoid and Acartia tonsa are a calanoid. Calanoids are typically smaller. Both Tigriop. sp. and Acartia Tonsa are an excellent species to culture.

- I believe I was partially correct. Everywhere that I have read and talked to to purchase copepods have said harpacticoid are the smaller ones and live in different areas than calanoid copepods which are larger in size. Yes, harpacticoid and calanoid pods are great for culturing, its known the smaller, harpacticoids live natually in saltwater so its easier to establish a sustainable population inside the display tank or refugium. I know Tigger-pods and Acatia tonsa are both large and at least Tigger-pods live in areas different from where normal pods live in a fish tank. They both can be cultured, but it is very hard for them to survive long or sustain a population in an aquarium.

Mysids aka Mysidopsis bahia are a mysid and neither a calanoid nor a harpactoid copepod,

-I mistakenly added mysids, but they still can also be cultured its just a little harder than copepods.

Tiger Pods AKA Tigger-Pods (Tigriopus calificornus) have a wide range of habitats, reportedly ranging from the tip of Baja (Mexico) to Alaska. They do not live in the ocean but rather the upper splash zone tide pools or rather "cesspools". They get very hot in the summer with triple strength salinity at times and very little to feed upon other then phytoplankton, bacteria, decaying organic matter and odd things like sea bird guano. The splash zone is the uppermost tide pools. They don't get splashed every wave, more like every few days at time.

-I have always known the harpacitoid copepods are the better ones to add to the aquarium because they naturally live in benthic environments or live on the bottom of the tank. These are the pods that everyone sees growing in their tanks. Harpacticoid are also the pods that are usually eaten by mandarins and anthias in the ocean.

[jer77]

I'm no expert on copepods so I may be mixed up, but I have read lots of stuff on it.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-10/rs/index.php

[GreshamH]

Mysids are NOT easy to culture, sorry. They take careful daily screening to separate sizes due to high rates cannibalism. They are one of the hardest feed creatures you could attempt to culture for marine aquaria. Do a web search and see how many actually offer truly cultured mysids. I'll save you the effort. There are only two commercial outfits that do it in the US. The only reason they actually can stay in business is most are used by the EPA. Every other company offering them wild collects them. Behind the EPA, we're the largest buyer of them. If they were so easy to deal with we'd be growing them ourselves and not buying them from others.

Your a biology student. Do you feel it's probable life evolves and acclimates to various conditions over time? With an animal with a 100 day or so life cycle do you think after 3 years of growing in a different environment then they naturally grow they might evolve/acclimate to it?

Why are nearly all my copepods in my tank and most I see not benthic but rather pelagic? I've had numerous samples from my tank ID by experts and the majority(2/3) was ID'd as calanoids. Some herpacs were found and even true marine rotifers amongst a few other odd things. FWIW Tigger-Pods are benthic.

Other then that I have little time tonight to continue to go around and around with you I'm no expert, but I work with them on a daily basis and have done so for the last 4 years. It's what I do

[jer77]

I never said Mysids are easy to culture, I said they can be but are hard to culture.

I agree with much that you are saying and acknowledge you do have more experience than me in the matter of culturing copepods. I know that copepods are very able to adapt to different environments. I can't say for me that most of the copepods in my tanks are calanoid. They are the smaller, benthic harpacitcoids.

Neverless, I still believe from experience, other people's experiences and from what I have read that Tigger-pods take a little more effort to establish in an aquarium than Tisbe sp. and smaller copepods.

It still can be done successfully, but for someone culturing copepods for the first time all I was saying is harpacticoids will prove to be easier and more successful in the end.

[GreshamH]

I apologize if I came off rude or harsh. It was the end of a long week and it got the better of me

Originally posted by jer77
....Tigger-pods take a little more effort to establish in an aquarium than Tisbe sp. and smaller copepods.

I don't disagree there. Some report blazing success while others don't do so well with them.

Originally posted by jer77
It still can be done successfully, but for someone culturing copepods for the first time all I was saying is harpacticoids will prove to be easier and more successful in the end.

For culturing purposes I had to disagree. Most I've spoken with have pretty good success but I won't say there are not those that don't. What I find amazing is middle school kids culture these and have no problem but get them in reefers hands and some report they're really hard or finicky, go figure

I was culturing them at home with artemia. The culture lasted 6 months with about 10 minutes total a week spent on feeding some phyto and an occasional freshwater top off. The artemia boomed and busted while the tigriopus cal. kept gaining in density. Neither ever maxed out in density. I bet they'd have gone on longer but I needed the space for an "ss" rotifer strain I obtained.

[seahorsedreams]

We culture both Tigriopus and Tisbe pods (as well as pseudocyclops) All are excellent pods, but we feel the products have a different intended use. The Tigriopus we recommend for target feeding and the tisbes (and Pseudocyclops) for seeding refugiums. The the summer we could not keep the cultures going at the same density in the summer as we could in the winter. It was when we added a chiller to the cultures that the cultures produced consistent numbers.

Tigriopus are TSD (Temperature-dependent sex Determined/ation) and reef temperatures induce masculinization. Eventually more and more males are produced until there are no longer enough females to sustain the population. I'm not saying the next generation will be all male or even that all of the species is affected equally.... but a better choice of copepods are those that love reef temperatures and that would be Tisbe sp.and Pseudocyclops sp.

[GreshamH]

What papers I have brought up on that subject show a mere 2% - 5% shift which is not real impact on the population at the rates they breed.

I find it odd we produce tens of thousands and have so for 3 or so years and have not seen what our others claim. It could be how ours is set-up, the feed, culture source, etc. We've never employed chillers on the copepod cultures.

How long have you been working with the one culture and did you collect it yourself?