Reef Crystals Salt Mix Problems

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 08:35 AM

Hey guys have anyone ever had the issue (recently) with reef crystals salt mix leaving behind and tan like sandy substance in your mixing barrel? This is happening with the 200 gallon box and the 160 gallon buckets? Also I am getting not so good parameters. Here they are:

SG- 35ppt
Alk- 12-14- High
Calcium- 380- Very low
NO3- 0
PO4- 0

-All using a hagan test kit and API test kit for confirmation.

JRF · 06/10/2009, 08:45 AM

My latest batches are leaving a nasty brown film in the barrel also! I dont know what it is..

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 08:46 AM

I have gotten the same thing... Very displeased by them... On the phone with them now.

BigJay · 06/10/2009, 08:54 AM

The alk is a little high, but to be honest a 20% water change will only raise the alkalinity of the tank by a fraction of a point.

The calcium is about average from what I've seen in RC. I've been supplementing with two part solution.

How is the magnesium in that batch? If it doesn't measure around 1300, you have a serious problem.

THE ROOK · 06/10/2009, 08:55 AM

Please keep us posted. I have also noticed a small amount on the bottom of my bucket. Also there's a tan coating on the heater & powerhead in the mixing bucket.

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 09:06 AM

I have just talk to them.... They say they want a sample of the salt and they claim I am mixing it wrong (pouring the salt in first)... Lots of issues apparently going to call back again an see if I can get an engineer on the phone. We buy 600+ gallons of this stuff a month. Testing another batch now.

BigJay · 06/10/2009, 09:21 AM

Get the magnesium level if you can please. That's probably the most difficult and expensive to supplement.

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 09:24 AM

I will... I just got off the phone again with them... I will be sending a sample to them to see whats up....

LobsterOfJustice · 06/10/2009, 09:32 AM

Do you put salt in first, and add water to that?

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 09:34 AM

We have done it both ways... Makes no difference...

J4Life · 06/10/2009, 09:42 AM

I just recently purchased a box of the 200 gallon RC from Dr. Foster & Smith and added to my bucket of salt that I had. I need to do a small water change and will let you know if I experience any issues.

I have in the past noticed a very tiny amount of brown settlement at the bottom of the bucket but it was never anything to cause an alarm about.

I also dose with Randy's Improved two-part solution so I have never taken a direct reading of freshly made salt water to see what the readings are.

I might mix up a cup of it to see what they test out tonight and post back my results if you are interested.

I have been using either IO or RC's for most of the entire time I have been in the hobby and have never experienced any issues with it. It has always provided good results for me.

California Crow · 06/10/2009, 09:58 AM

Same here. I did a water change this past weekend, and saw a bunch of brown crud in the bottom of my stock saltwater tank.

I've been using RC for about half a year, and consistently need to supplement magnesium.

Dave P

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 10:01 AM

I agree... but what kills me is the readings I just got and the brown film on top... After I bought this from drs foster and smith I began to have dinoflaggilate issues if you have seen my thread about that... So I am pinpointing this at the salt because I have never had any issues and run very close to an UNLS. Here is the batch I mixed this morning-
42 gallons of RODI- 0PPM
SG-35ppt
Calcium- 380 measuring the Ca+ ion
PH- 8.3- after heavy aeration
dKH- 12-14
Mg- 1200ppm- measuring the Mg2+ ion
Temp-78 degrees

Logzor · 06/10/2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisKirkland
Hey guys have anyone ever had the issue (recently) with reef crystals salt mix leaving behind and tan like sandy substance in your mixing barrel? This is happening with the 200 gallon box and the 160 gallon buckets? Also I am getting not so good parameters. Here they are:

SG- 35ppt
Alk- 12-14- High
Calcium- 380- Very low
NO3- 0
PO4- 0

-All using a hagan test kit and API test kit for confirmation.

The stuff that collects on the bottom is normal:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php

The Saltwater Kid · 06/10/2009, 10:11 AM

I too have noticed a brown film in my mixing bucket after making a fresh batck of saltwater. It coated my heater and mixing pump as well. I did test and I came out with both high calcium (470ppm) and high alkalinity (12dKH) using a Salifert calcium test kit and an API alkalinity test. I have not tested for magnesium but will start doing that. I've heard a lot of positive buzz about Seachem's Reef Salt and may switch to that after my bucket of Reef Crystals is gone (especially since it's no longer 431.99 and is actually more expensive than the Seachem now at DF&S).

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Logzor
The stuff that collects on the bottom is normal:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php

I beg to differ... It is not normal for any salt to have any brown/tan particles to collect on the bottom... However it is normal to have white particles (calcium precipitate).I have never seen these before in any of my mixing barrels... No problems before...
Here are some pics (the best I could do)

Keep in mind this brute is completely clean and only used for saltwater mixing... No sediment was in the bottom... it was dry and closed shut. The second pic show brown surface scum and the first one shows both the surface scum and the brown/tan sediment

BLKTANG · 06/10/2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisKirkland
I beg to differ... It is not normal for any salt to have any brown/tan particles to collect on the bottom... However it is normal to have white particles (calcium precipitate).I have never seen these before in any of my mixing barrels... No problems before...
Here are some pics (the best I could do)

Keep in mind this brute is completely clean and only used for saltwater mixing... No sediment was in the bottom... it was dry and closed shut. The second pic show brown surface scum and the first one shows both the surface scum and the brown/tan sediment

Ewww i wouldnt even be doing a WC on my reef with NSW looking like that.E-GADS!!

I also see in your avtar that your sand is covered with Cyano.Maybe this nasty water is the cause.

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 10:25 AM

Yeah... thats why I'm a bit aggravated... and my SPS hate it...

BLKTANG · 06/10/2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisKirkland
Yeah... thats why I'm a bit aggravated... and my SPS hate it...

No doubt,the presence of Cyano Bacteria inhibits the calcification of Stony Coral.

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 10:35 AM

Yep... here is a link to the dino thread I started shortly after switching to RC
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1650943

BLKTANG · 06/10/2009, 10:46 AM

I started out Reefkeeping with Oceanic some 7yrs ago,& have been using RC for the last 5.

If i get a bucket of RC that looks like that when i mix it,im gonna try H2Ocean.Ive been looking for an excuse anyway.

ChrisKirkland · 06/10/2009, 10:49 AM

I will be using Red Sea Coral Pro after this mess...

Vanquishxxxx · 06/10/2009, 10:50 AM

i have seen the brown film with the last two buckets i used, not pleased either. Jsut bought 4 buckets too.

. Is it safe to use still??

BigJay · 06/10/2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisKirkland
I beg to differ... It is not normal for any salt to have any brown/tan particles to collect on the bottom... However it is normal to have white particles (calcium precipitate).I have never seen these before in any of my mixing barrels... No problems before...

The brown stuff likely contains a good amount of magnesium in addition to the calcium carbonate. From the article, written by a renowned chemist (Randy):

Most salt mixes leave behind a solid residue when dissolved, although the extent to which this occurs varies from brand to brand. I use Instant Ocean and rarely clean out the 44-gallon trashcan that I mix it in, so a significant residue builds up over time (Figure 1). In preparation for this article I removed some of this solid material, and found that it could be almost completely dissolved in hydrochloric acid with lots of bubbling. This demonstrates that these solids were probably calcium carbonate (CaCO3), perhaps also containing magnesium. Pure magnesium carbonate is undersaturated in seawater (which is detailed in later sections of this article) 1 and should dissolve in marine systems, so it isn't likely to be the precipitated material, although there may be significant magnesium in the calcium carbonate.

goldmaniac · 06/10/2009, 10:53 AM

I heard a rumor that Reef Crystals went/is going out of business.

\ my source was just a guy in my area that was selling me a couple home-grown corals. He gave me an empty 5-gallon Reef Crystals bucket to put the corals in and we started talking about salt, and it came up. he had nothing to gain by telling me this.

\\ maybe there's truth to it? maybe they were bought by someone else?

06/10/2009, 08:35 AM	#1
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Reef Crystals Salt Mix Problems Hey guys have anyone ever had the issue (recently) with reef crystals salt mix leaving behind and tan like sandy substance in your mixing barrel? This is happening with the 200 gallon box and the 160 gallon buckets? Also I am getting not so good parameters. Here they are: SG- 35ppt Alk- 12-14- High Calcium- 380- Very low NO3- 0 PO4- 0 -All using a hagan test kit and API test kit for confirmation. __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 08:45 AM	#2
JRF Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: NC Posts: 594	My latest batches are leaving a nasty brown film in the barrel also! I dont know what it is.. __________________ "And God said, let the waters under the heaven be gathered unto one place.....And the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: And God saw that it was good". Current Tank Info: 220 mixed reef

06/10/2009, 08:46 AM	#3
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	I have gotten the same thing... Very displeased by them... On the phone with them now. __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 08:54 AM	#4
BigJay Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southlake, Texas Posts: 1,872	The alk is a little high, but to be honest a 20% water change will only raise the alkalinity of the tank by a fraction of a point. The calcium is about average from what I've seen in RC. I've been supplementing with two part solution. How is the magnesium in that batch? If it doesn't measure around 1300, you have a serious problem. __________________ PBITAWA

06/10/2009, 09:06 AM	#6
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	I have just talk to them.... They say they want a sample of the salt and they claim I am mixing it wrong (pouring the salt in first)... Lots of issues apparently going to call back again an see if I can get an engineer on the phone. We buy 600+ gallons of this stuff a month. Testing another batch now. __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 08:55 AM	#5
THE ROOK Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Springfield, MA Posts: 2,100	Please keep us posted. I have also noticed a small amount on the bottom of my bucket. Also there's a tan coating on the heater & powerhead in the mixing bucket.

06/10/2009, 09:21 AM	#7
BigJay Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southlake, Texas Posts: 1,872	Get the magnesium level if you can please. That's probably the most difficult and expensive to supplement. __________________ PBITAWA

06/10/2009, 09:24 AM	#8
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	I will... I just got off the phone again with them... I will be sending a sample to them to see whats up.... __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 09:32 AM	#9
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	Do you put salt in first, and add water to that? __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

06/10/2009, 09:34 AM	#10
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	We have done it both ways... Makes no difference... __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 09:42 AM	#11
J4Life Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 1,397	I just recently purchased a box of the 200 gallon RC from Dr. Foster & Smith and added to my bucket of salt that I had. I need to do a small water change and will let you know if I experience any issues. I have in the past noticed a very tiny amount of brown settlement at the bottom of the bucket but it was never anything to cause an alarm about. I also dose with Randy's Improved two-part solution so I have never taken a direct reading of freshly made salt water to see what the readings are. I might mix up a cup of it to see what they test out tonight and post back my results if you are interested. I have been using either IO or RC's for most of the entire time I have been in the hobby and have never experienced any issues with it. It has always provided good results for me. __________________ Go Panthers! Got JC? <o)))>< Current Tank Info: 75 gallon, Reef tank

06/10/2009, 09:58 AM	#12
California Crow Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 170	Same here. I did a water change this past weekend, and saw a bunch of brown crud in the bottom of my stock saltwater tank. I've been using RC for about half a year, and consistently need to supplement magnesium. Dave P

06/10/2009, 10:01 AM	#13
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	I agree... but what kills me is the readings I just got and the brown film on top... After I bought this from drs foster and smith I began to have dinoflaggilate issues if you have seen my thread about that... So I am pinpointing this at the salt because I have never had any issues and run very close to an UNLS. Here is the batch I mixed this morning- 42 gallons of RODI- 0PPM SG-35ppt Calcium- 380 measuring the Ca+ ion PH- 8.3- after heavy aeration dKH- 12-14 Mg- 1200ppm- measuring the Mg2+ ion Temp-78 degrees __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 10:11 AM	#15
The Saltwater Kid Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Barre, VT Posts: 2,586	I too have noticed a brown film in my mixing bucket after making a fresh batck of saltwater. It coated my heater and mixing pump as well. I did test and I came out with both high calcium (470ppm) and high alkalinity (12dKH) using a Salifert calcium test kit and an API alkalinity test. I have not tested for magnesium but will start doing that. I've heard a lot of positive buzz about Seachem's Reef Salt and may switch to that after my bucket of Reef Crystals is gone (especially since it's no longer 431.99 and is actually more expensive than the Seachem now at DF&S). __________________ Oceanic Biocube 14g Nano Tank w/middle chamber refugium mod 2 Ecoxotic Power Pro LED Modules (1 - 12K/Royal Blue combo, 1 - Royal Blue) MaxiJet 900 return, VorTech MP10 circulation Livestock: Higher End Z's & P's, few mushrooms, Aussie Duncan, Maxi Mini Carpet Anemone

06/10/2009, 10:25 AM	#18
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Yeah... thats why I'm a bit aggravated... and my SPS hate it... __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 10:35 AM	#20
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	Yep... here is a link to the dino thread I started shortly after switching to RC http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1650943 __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 10:46 AM	#21
BLKTANG Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Never,Never Land Posts: 7,061	I started out Reefkeeping with Oceanic some 7yrs ago,& have been using RC for the last 5. If i get a bucket of RC that looks like that when i mix it,im gonna try H2Ocean.Ive been looking for an excuse anyway. __________________ We the few have done so much,for so long,for so little.That we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. ____________________________________________________________________________ Current Tank Info: RR 90 Maganvore sump,250w Hamilton fixture,VorTec's ASM skimmer.

06/10/2009, 10:49 AM	#22
ChrisKirkland Reef and Coral Fanatic Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lexington, Ky. Posts: 1,739	I will be using Red Sea Coral Pro after this mess... __________________ Chris Kirkland Reef Nerd. Current Tank Info: Getting back into the hobby.

06/10/2009, 10:50 AM	#23
Vanquishxxxx Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Island Posts: 998	i have seen the brown film with the last two buckets i used, not pleased either. Jsut bought 4 buckets too. . Is it safe to use still??

06/10/2009, 10:53 AM	#25
goldmaniac Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 1,567	I heard a rumor that Reef Crystals went/is going out of business. \ my source was just a guy in my area that was selling me a couple home-grown corals. He gave me an empty 5-gallon Reef Crystals bucket to put the corals in and we started talking about salt, and it came up. he had nothing to gain by telling me this. \\ maybe there's truth to it? maybe they were bought by someone else?