Electronic Co2 Regulator any good?

[ZR1001]

Thanks tkeracer619. I'll place an order today

[Jar*Head]

Just want to share that i got my electronic CO2 regulator from aquariumplans.com and i am in love with it. It is so easy to use.

[screamincamaro]

Can anyone confirm what the output rating is for the transformer? I unhooked mine and have two transformers that look the exact same but can't remember which it is?

[Lutefisk]

Originally posted by screamincamaro
Can anyone confirm what the output rating is for the transformer? I unhooked mine and have two transformers that look the exact same but can't remember which it is?

Here are some of the specs on mine:

12V 200mA

Manufacturer: CUI Inc.
Model:35-12-200

Paul

[screamincamaro]

Thanks that is what I needed I had the right one.

[Los]

Does anyone know how the "add on box" works? Is that what you'd use if you already have a regulator? It's listed under "Co2-b":

http://www.AquariumPlants.com/Aquari...ator_p/co2.htm

My regulator's solenoid valve broke in the open position and if I can just buy the electronic portion of the electronic regulator, and add it to my existing setup, that would be great.

[Lutefisk]

Originally posted by Los
Does anyone know how the "add on box" works? Is that what you'd use if you already have a regulator? It's listed under "Co2-b":

http://www.AquariumPlants.com/Aquari...ator_p/co2.htm

My regulator's solenoid valve broke in the open position and if I can just buy the electronic portion of the electronic regulator, and add it to my existing setup, that would be great.

Yes and no.

Yes, with the proper adapters, it should work. (Edit, I believe they said that it wouldn't but I can't imagine why. It sits downstream of the regulator and has its own electronics).

No, due to the manufacturer's concerns that they maintain a quality reputation and keep the service calls to a minimum, they do not sell a unit for customers to mount on an existing regulator.

I had a good conversation with them about doing this but early on they had some bad experiences with customers messing up what should be a relatively easy plumbing job. From my own past experience in other fields I can easily see how this can be a problem for them.

I ended up biting the bullet and ordering the whole nine yards. At the current price it is still an outstanding value. Have you priced solenoid valves recently? Once you consider that it functions as a regulator, solenoid valve, needle valve, and check valve (I still put my own in) the price can't be beat.

I also picked up that the current price is some type of introductory pricing and I believe that they are planning to raise it at some point.


Paul

[BigJay]

Originally posted by Lutefisk

I ended up biting the bullet and ordering the whole nine yards. At the current price it is still an outstanding value.

You'll get no argument from me here, it is without a doubt the best and most accurate regulator you can buy.

Originally posted by Lutefisk

Have you priced solenoid valves recently? Once you consider that it functions as a regulator, solenoid valve, needle valve, and check valve (I still put my own in) the price can't be beat.

I also picked up that the current price is some type of introductory pricing and I believe that they are planning to raise it at some point.

You fell for a marketing line here. You can get a solenoid, regulator, bubble counter, and needle valve from Milwaukee for 80 bucks. Whether or not the electronic regulator is really worth more than two and a half times that price is something that the market will have to decide.

[Lutefisk]

Originally posted by BigJay You fell for a marketing line here. You can get a solenoid, regulator, bubble counter, and needle valve from Milwaukee for 80 bucks. Whether or not the electronic regulator is really worth more than two and a half times that price is something that the market will have to decide.

Truthfully, I've used regulators from scientific and medical equipment up to this point and I've added the solenoid valve, needle valve, and check valve myself. Even the ones I've tinkered with built upon old welding regulators start to add up in the $'s.

Yeah, you could get a Milwaukee regulator and solenoid valve for $80-90 but you'd still want to add a check valve. So - if you go cheap you'd be at 50%.

However, if you go to some place like Marine Depot or Premium Aquatics you're looking at $145- 50 before you add a check valve.

At this point the "electronic regulator" costs pretty much the same as the primary alternates out there. Evidently the market has decided that $145-200 price point works.

I've been running CO2 reactors for many years and have ran many different configurations. I'm not likely to fall for marketing hype on this issue. That is why I didn't bother paying all the extra money for the digital bubble counter.

When running a CO2 reactors you have two variables that you MUST be able to control: the rate at which you are feeding CO2 into the reactor and the rate at which you feed water through the reactor. If you can't reliably control both of those you are fighting a lost cause.

Paul

[montepora]

I have been using this regulator for about a year now and here is my experience. I blew the diaphragm at first, not really sure how that happened but I had to send it back to get it replace. I followed the instruction from a fellow reefer who designs regulator for a living and was able to pinpoint the issue. It also took me a while to get it back.

The issue I am having with this regulator is on its low pressure gauge. The regulator we commonly used have low pressure gauge reading from 0 to 60/80 psi. For AP's electronic regulator, the reading is from 0 to 15 psi. The reason why I point this out is because it gave me a false impression that I have to run the low pressure very high to get it to work initially.

Base on my experience, I have to at least run this electronic regulator from 5 psi to 10 psi to get the bubble running initially and I will need to adjust it for a few days until the lower pressure gauge settles. Please note that if you are running your calcium reactor teeing off from your central pump or if you have a strong recirculating pump, then more psi is required due to back pressure. Again, the key is to set it and then adjust it base on the fluctuation you encounter.

Another issue I have is the bubble count would fluctuate because the low pressure wouldn't stay the same and I believe this is due to the pressure changes from the cylinder from CO2 consumption. I frequently encounter pH swing from my calcium reactor and I need to adjust the bubble count each time this happens.

I am not sure if anyone is facing the same issue and I would love to hear more about it. Thanks.

PS, does anyone of you AP electronic regulator owner notice that the lower pressure gauge needle tinkers each time a bubble is being released?

[BigJay]

Originally posted by montepora

PS, does anyone of you AP electronic regulator owner notice that the lower pressure gauge needle tinkers each time a bubble is being released?

The electronic controls are supposed to adjust the pressure to give a consistent bubble rate regardless of the atmospheric pressure and the backpressure on the regulator itself.

It's awesome, I want one.

[montepora]

Originally posted by BigJay
The electronic controls are supposed to adjust the pressure to give a consistent bubble rate regardless of the atmospheric pressure and the backpressure on the regulator itself.

It's awesome, I want one.

Hi,

Yes, that was my impression but unfortunately, that was not my experience. I guess I need to contact AP again.

[Los]

Please keep us posted. I'm thinking about buying one and I value your feedback, Montepora.

[montepora]

Originally posted by Los
Please keep us posted. I'm thinking about buying one and I value your feedback, Montepora.

Thanks, I checked again when I got home today and my reactor pH again changed from 6.8 to 6.4.

I hope the designer for this regulator can jump in and see if he can assist in solving my issue, I want to be like others to have it set and forget.

[BigJay]

+1 Good luck on getting your regulator fixed montepora.

The bouncing output pressure almost sounds like a leak on the CO2 output somewhere before the reactor. I don't suppose that's possible is it?

[grego]

pictures...

[montepora]

Originally posted by BigJay
+1 Good luck on getting your regulator fixed montepora.

The bouncing output pressure almost sounds like a leak on the CO2 output somewhere before the reactor. I don't suppose that's possible is it?

Are you suggesting that it could be an issue with my cylinder? Hm....

You sounded savvy in this, do you mind telling me how I can go about in getting the cylinder check for issues? When I took them for refill, the fire safety company would exam them and they never told me that there are issues with them.

Please advise. Thanks.

[Eric the half-bee]

I've had mine running for nearly a year. It has worked flawlessly. I haven't touched it in 6 months for adjustment. Like Montepora, I too had a diaphragm blow in the first or 2nd week of use. I changed cylinders without opening the valve on the controller all the way(I think) and according to Mark at Aqplants, that pressure took it out. They replaced it no cost and now I know what not to do. I was burning up 20 lb cylinders every 1-2 months before I bought this due to solenoids sticking open...

[BigJay]

Originally posted by montepora
Are you suggesting that it could be an issue with my cylinder? Hm....

You sounded savvy in this, do you mind telling me how I can go about in getting the cylinder check for issues? When I took them for refill, the fire safety company would exam them and they never told me that there are issues with them.

Please advise. Thanks.

Honestly I don't know much, other than a problem I had early on with my analog regulator: I had a CO2 leak on my check valve before the reactor on the regulator side. I had trouble maintaining a stable operating pressure and bubble rate with the needle valve until I replaced the airline with new (CO2 safe) tubing and fixed the leak.

Now that I think about it that can't be your problem. It is my understanding that the AP electronic regulators don't need check valves, it's built in. Best to contact the manufacturer on this.

[montepora]

Originally posted by Eric the half-bee
I've had mine running for nearly a year. It has worked flawlessly. I haven't touched it in 6 months for adjustment. Like Montepora, I too had a diaphragm blow in the first or 2nd week of use. I changed cylinders without opening the valve on the controller all the way(I think) and according to Mark at Aqplants, that pressure took it out. They replaced it no cost and now I know what not to do. I was burning up 20 lb cylinders every 1-2 months before I bought this due to solenoids sticking open...

I did open the center knob on the controller when I install it and that is why I was baffled when I learn that I blew the diaphragm.

I will contact AP.

PS, I PM the person who had assist me in the issue to come over and read the thread, he will be able to provide better insight on this regulator I think.

[montepora]

Email to AP sent. I will keep you posted.

[jdieck]

There are several potential sources of issues that being aware off may help.
First, a single stage regulator designed to deliver a low pressure with the proper sensitivity for variation require a more sensitive diaphragm specially if the diameter of the diaphragm is relatively small. This calls for using neoprene rather than metal diaphragms and the thinner the better. That can make a regulator prone to diaphragm failure specially if not used properly.
A sudden inrush of gas/pressure usually damage the low pressure gauge and in this case potentially damaging the diaphragm or the electronic control mechanism. It is imperative to unscrew the pressure adjusting knob before opening the cylinder valve and to open the cylinder valve slowly.
Also to prevent potential issues with small orifices required for the delivery of small amounts of gas, one shall insure that there is no dirt or particles at the outlet of the cylinder or the inlet of the regulator before connecting the regulator to the cylinder.

A single stage regulator, specially delivering a lower pressure is relatively prone to changes in the delivery pressure. Under normal operation, a withdrawal of gas from the low pressure chamber of the regulator translates into a drop of pressure which is detected by the diaphragm which moves to open the plunger releasing gas from the high pressure chamber to the low pressure chamber to replace the gas withdrawn and restoring the pressure. When the volume withdrawn is small, the drop in pressure may be too small to be detected by the diaphragm which will not actuate until additional gas is withdrawn, and gas is replaced in "Surges" this can cause small variations in the delivery pressure which can translate in variable size of the bubbles or a couple of bubbles released at once in some occasions.
Although this effect can be noticeable, it shall have little or no effect on the performance or adjustment of the reactor because the total volume delivered over a period of one or two minutes will still be constant.

As BigJay mentions above, leaks on the delivery tubing from the regulator to the reactor or the check valve itself can be also sources of variability and inconsistency of operation. Check valves are a big culprit of bubble surging. Some check valves require relatively higher pressure to open. They remain closed until certain pressure has build up on the delivery side of the regulator just to suddenly open releasing a surge of gas. In the case of regulators delivering very low pressure, 1 to 3 psi this could be a real issue for consistent operation of the CO2 delivery system and in this case were the regulator self contains it's own check valve, I would recommend not to use a second check valve in the line.

Other potential sources of variation exist that can make adjustment and smooth operation difficult. The other offender one I can remember is feeding the regulator via a T off from a relatively large return pump. Some pumps specially if located in a basement sump for delivery to a floor upstairs can deliver a lot of pressure to the point of rendering low CO2 pressure delivery useless. In a test I was running to measure the change in reactor performance and CO2 consumption at different pressures using a T off from an Iwaki 100 RLT in the basement, I blew the top of the reactor!, If you feed your reactor using this method I would suggest installing the effluent control valve to the inlet of the reactor rather than the outlet. This will provide more constant pressure in the reactor although will not totally eliminate the variability.

I am not familiar, known about or read about any fully electronic device that can open and close the delivery trough a gas orifice so I shall assume (risking being wrong) that some form of mechanical means actuated by an electrical pulse are provided for that purpose. At 40 bubbles per minute, that is over 20 million cycles a year so it got to be a very sturdy little thingy in there to take that load. It will be interesting to know how many cycles it took for this little thingy to fail during manufacturing tests.

Finally, if the bubble rate changes over time I can think of only two potential reasons. A dropping pressure in the cylinder (as when getting empty) or changes in the electronics that translate in changes in the timing of the pulse that releases the gas.
On normal operation and as far as the temperature of the cylinder is maintained below 87*F there will be liquid CO2 inside the cylinder. This liquid will evaporate as gas is withdrawn replacing the gas used so the pressure in the cylinder is fairly constant which leads me to thing that if this effect is observed there could potentially be an issue with the electronics. A false contact or moisture on the potentiometer used to adjust the delivery rate, an out of spec resistor or capacitor which heats up in operation could change the duration of the cycle between pulses from the timer circuit. Here I could recommend to insure that the regulator is operating in a well ventilated area to reduce moisture accumulation and that is located away from potential splashes.

[Daniel.luu]

Here is my experience:

I've been using AP elec regulator for about 2 months and it drained 90% of my 20# CO2 tank. Called AP and talked to Mark he diagnosed and found a leak, i sent it back to him for repairs. I should get it back in few days he said.

Well, it's 4 weeks already and still haven't got mine back yet. I called every week for status and they keep saying "we'll ship tomorrow", but never did. They should've been straight up with me that it might take a few weeks for repairs, so I can buy more Ionic 2 part solution. What a support :-(

So much for praising good support...

Becareful when you buy this, as it tends to leak and could take up to more than 4 weeks for repairs.

I didn't have a good experience like most people have posted.

Just my luck i guess, now i'm ready to buy a different one.

[Los]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties, Daniel, but thank you for posting them. After reading the feedback on here, I tried to buy one a month or two ago, but I wanted to speak to someone about it first. A lady answered the phone and the "guy" who was familiar with them wasn't in, so they took my name and number and I waited for the return call. After a few days, I called again and again left my details. A few days after that, I tried a third time - still to no avail.

Unfortunately, it's normal for new products to have some issues when they go from prototype to manufacturing and there's nothing like a mass of early-adopters to find the kinks in something new. What differentiates companies is how they deal with those problems. Hopefully you'll get yours back soon. The concept is really cool and it has some real advantages over the normal regulator/needle valve setup.

[Daniel.luu]

Hey Los,

I'd hold up on buying this product. Let's say you've bought it and run into same issue as i am, then wait in-line for repairs.

Remember, the number of actual problems is always more than reported.

I guess that's why mine is still sitting there for repairs.

If you decided to go with different one, please post here. I might need to buy the same. :-)

Good luck,