Reef Crystals Salt Mix Problems

[mpoletti]

Very interesting. I also am well aware that every salt mix on the market contains silica in their mix. I wonder what else might of changed when they reconfigured their numbers.

[maynardjames]

i dont live too far from ya. i will take salt off your hands, just tell me where to meet you. my mixing tank gets brown film but dt never has & water is crystal clear in white bucket.
how many buckets did you want to give away?

[RRaider]

Originally posted by ChrisKirkland
The "scum" is a nutrient, which chemical compound is still unknown until we do further chemical analysis. The sediment tests out to be both a silicate and calcium carbonate. However it is composed more of the silicate than the CaCo. Again this is was was found by dissolving the sediment in a solution that calcium carbonate is soluble in.

I'd like to know more about this test that tells you something is a nutrient but does not identify what nutrient it is. Personally I don't believe it's a nutrient. I have been doing all of my water changes for several months with water that has the brown scum and I have no algae problems.

[ChrisKirkland]

Originally posted by mpoletti
Very interesting. I also am well aware that every salt mix on the market contains silica in their mix. I wonder what else might of changed when they reconfigured their numbers.

I wonder too... This is exactly what I wanted to know... We have used RC forever at work, but personally this is a first for me using RC...

[ChrisKirkland]

Originally posted by RRaider
I'd like to know more about this test that tells you something is a nutrient but does not identify what nutrient it is. Personally I don't believe it's a nutrient. I have been doing all of my water changes for several months with water that has the brown scum and I have no algae problems.

Please refer to my post about my blanket statement concerning where the salt is coming from... You might not be exposed to this issue... The test is testing for silicate's (silica). It will only react when they are present then it will tell you how much (ppm, ppt). It does not identify the compound or molecule present.

[ChrisKirkland]

Originally posted by maynardjames
i dont live too far from ya. i will take salt off your hands, just tell me where to meet you. my mixing tank gets brown film but dt never has & water is crystal clear in white bucket.
how many buckets did you want to give away?

I'm certainly not giving the buckets away :-)... I have 2 and 3/4 buckets to probably get rid of.

[lucas73]

Originally posted by ChrisKirkland
To be honest, and this is my opinion but Randy is a awesome chemist and is great at what he does but I believe there is more to reefing than just chemistry. I mean I have tested this saltwater in our labs at UK and with a Electronic Calcium meter it reads within + or - 20ppm... and how can you PROVE there is no issues related to the brown scum, that is nutrient (go test it) and what does algae feed on? Nutrients... Thats what I mean... The salt may work out to the correct params but the nutrient content in the salt is too high... When tested with a TDS meter the mix comes out to about 550-600ppt. Which is too high for that mix...

Chris,I am not a chemist I have no way to PROVE that the brown residue is detrimental other than it has not affected my tank.Again I stated that I was NOT a Reef Crystal user,and that I simply get a brown residue from Coral Pro.I am not doubting your claim or testing method.AND YES I KNOW ALGAE FEEDS ON EXCESS NUTRIENTS.I guess your best bet is to move along and find another mix,since you said they stated that it is your problem.They wouldnt have to tell me twice,and I sure the HELL would have given them a piece of my mind.....JMO

[ChrisKirkland]

Originally posted by lucas73
Chris,I am not a chemist I have no way to PROVE that the brown residue is detrimental other than it has not affected my tank.Again I stated that I was NOT a Reef Crystal user,and that I simply get a brown residue from Coral Pro.I am not doubting your claim or testing method.AND YES I KNOW ALGAE FEEDS ON EXCESS NUTRIENTS.I guess your best bet is to move along and find another mix,since you said they stated that it is your problem.They wouldnt have to tell me twice,and I sure the HELL would have given them a piece of my mind.....JMO

No worries I already have... And I was not calling you ignorant by telling you algae feeds on nutrient. Thats why this thread was started, I believe that all reefers should know what's in their salt mix... They have nothing to hide right? or do they?

[rynon]

Who has a test kit to measure every thing in a salt mix? Bottom line, your all putting things in your tank you don't or cannot test for, anyone of those could be causing who knows how many issues. I've had issues with RC too, I'll never use it again but I doubt there is a perfect salt. JMO.

[lucas73]

Chris,I apologize for taking your post out of context.Sometimes its easy to do if the discussion is not face to face.Good luck to you and your business.

[ChrisKirkland]

Originally posted by lucas73
Chris,I apologize for taking your post out of context.Sometimes its easy to do if the discussion is not face to face.Good luck to you and your business.

No worries man... I work for the business I can't say I own aquadec but I do almost all of our saltwater svc. Anywho thanks your concern. Where are you at in Ky?

[lucas73]

Originally posted by ChrisKirkland
No worries man... I work for the business I can't say I own aquadec but I do almost all of our saltwater svc. Anywho thanks your concern. Where are you at in Ky?

Shepherdsville

[ChrisKirkland]

K... Awesome, You a member of Kentucky Reef Society?

[lucas73]

No,send me some info about KRS.Do you guys ever have meetings in Louisville?

[jejton]

Does anyone else get a low SG when mixing RC according to the directions? It says 1/2 cup/ gallon for 1.025 ( I believe but I'm too tired to check ). I consistently get closer to 1.021/2 and I let it sit in a bucket with a powerhead for at least a day before using. I also get low calcium readings on my tank ( which doesnt have many SPS ) but I never tested the fresh mix so am not sure if thats where the problem lies.

[ChrisKirkland]

Depends on the actual bucket volume too the spec will measure to the very tip top of the rim of the bucket, but we could never carry it without getting H2O all over us so we have to adjust accordingly... Then again the directions could be off a bit... I never read them...

[BigJay]

What test kit exactly are you actually using to check silicates?

[rigleautomotive]

Here are my results from AWT a while back when i was using RC.I am curious what my silica readings are now with coral pro.I may send out another sample to get it checked.I really had no algae issues even with this elevated silica level but thats not saying someone else would not.Like its been said earlier in this thread,every tank is different.

AWT results
here are my results from my recent test from AWT
my test results on the big three with salifert on the day i sent in the samples were
alk 9.6
cal 390
mg 1305




Water Test Summary
Ammonia (NH3-4) ........................Good ......................................... 0.008
Nitrite (NO2)................................Good ......................................... 0.001
Nitrate (NO3)...............................Good .............................................0.3
Phosphate (PO4) ..........................Good ........................................... 0.02
Silica (SiO2-3) ............................. High..............................................1.3
Potassium (K) ...............................Low............................................. 316
Calcium (Ca)................................Good ............................................ 401
Boron (B) .....................................Low..............................................2.9
Molybdenum (Mo).........................Good .............................................0.1
Strontium (Sr) .............................Good .............................................9.8
Magnesium (Mg) ..........................Good .......................................... 1246
Iodine (I¯)....................................Low............................................ 0.00
Copper (Cu++) ............................Good ........................................... 0.02
Alkalinity (meq/L).........................Good ........................................... 3.09
Thank you for your business! Please let us know if you have
questions, comments, or concerns.
Please remember that the information that accompanies your tested
values is a courtesy and is offered only to frame the results in a way
meaningful to the aquarium hobbyist. The NSW values, acceptable
ranges and recommendations are not meant to replace the advice of
aquarium professionals and experienced hobbyists.

Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/L
Tested: 0.008 mg/L
(GOOD) Your ammonia level is within the recommended range. We recommend staying
with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a good schedule of water
changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a
water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/L is a
cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected.
Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/L
Tested: 0.001 mg/L
(GOOD) Your nitrite level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual levels of nitrite are common
in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than
this, the source should be found and corrected.
Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/L
Tested: 0.3 mg/L
(GOOD) Your nitrate level is within the recommended range. Be sure to maintain
reasonable stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change schedule. Nitrate
is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions,
and any level above 5.0 mg/L in reef aquariums is a reason for concern.

Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/L
Tested: 0.02 mg/L
(GOOD) Your phosphate level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a phosphate absorbing
resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/L.

** SILICA_______ (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/L
Tested: 1.3 mg/L
(HIGH) Your silica level is too high. We recommend that you use a silica specific R/O
membrane in addition to deionization resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also
use a commercially available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate.
Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also
encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/L may cause a diatom
bloom in the aquarium.

Potassium (K)
Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/L
Tested: 316 mg/L
(LOW) Your potassium level is too low. We recommend performing a partial water change,
and possibly adding a commercial additive containing potassium. Potassium is rapidly
depleted from aquarium water by several plant and animal metabolic processes.
Maintenance of appropriate levels is critical for cellular respiration, as well as being an
important nutrient for coral zooxanthellae and macro algae.

Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/L*
*These values represent only the amount of free calcium ions present in the samples. According to Randy Holmes-Farley, the
total calcium concentration can be 10% to 20% higher.
Tested: 401 mg/L
(GOOD) Your calcium level is within the recommended range. We recommend that you
continue with your current schedule of calcium additions. Calcium is critical to healthy coral
skeletal growth, and many other biological processes. Maintenance of calcium levels that are
at or near seawater values is an important factor in having a healthy reef aquarium.
Boron (B)
Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/L
Tested: 2.9 mg/L
(LOW) Your boron level is too low. We recommend performing a water change, and
possibly the addition of a commercial buffer containing borate salts. Boron is an important
part of the water buffering capacity, and a lack of boron can lead to dangerous fluctuations
in pH and alkalinity.
Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.01 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.0 to 0.12 mg/L
Tested: 0.1 mg/L
(GOOD) Your molybdenum level is within the recommended range. Molybdenum is found
in many common additives and at highly elevated levels in most salt mixes and so a vast
majority of reef tanks demonstrate a level 10 to 50 times higher than natural levels. 0.12
mg/L is the upper toxicity limit for Molybdenum, the point at which negative effects can
begin to manifest themselves. Your level is below this limit and is in proximity to natural
sea water values. Molybdenum is important to microbial activity in the aquarium filter, and
may also be important to stony coral health and reproduction.

Strontium (Sr)
Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/L
Tested: 9.8 mg/L
(GOOD) Your strontium level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to coral growth, as they
incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also
important to coralline algae growth.
Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/L
Tested: 1246 mg/L
(GOOD) Your magnesium level is within the recommended range. We recommend staying
with your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very important part
of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to
any photosynthetic processes.
Iodine (I¯)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/L
Tested: 0.00 mg/L
(LOW) Your iodine level is too low. We recommend using an iodine-specific additive to raise
this level. Iodine is removed from the water by various biological processes, protein
skimming, and activated carbon. Iodine is required by soft corals, macro algae, and for
pigment development in SPS corals.

Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/L
Tested: 0.02 mg/L
(GOOD) Your copper level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current water change schedule, being careful to use only RO/DI water for makeup/
top-off water. Use of activated carbon can also help keep this level in check. Copper is
fatal to marine invertebrates at levels as low as 0.05 mg/L for many species.
Alkalinity (meq/L)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/L
Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/L
Tested: 3.09 meq/L
(GOOD) Your alkalinity level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity
is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious
problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and
magnesium levels within required ranges.
Thank you for using AquariumWaterTesting.com


__________________

[kjord97]

I have been using I/O salt since MACNA 2005 in D.C. when I won 14 cases of it in the raffle. After I ran out of salt in late 2007, I switched over to RC. I have had the brown build up on my brute trash can for 4.5 years now. I clean it off 3-4 times a year, usualy once a quater. My tanks have always flourished and obtain great growth. I perform 20% water changes on all of my tanks every 2 weeks. I mix up 70 gals of water for the water changes.


I will continue to use it till otherwise.



I use well water, no rodi, TDS is 56 water taste cleaner than bottled water from store. I usually put water in trash can, water is 57 degrees, and then add salt, no heater, let pump heat the water. use a quiet one 3000 pump to mix, i mix for 24 hours, water is usually 75 degrees with a salinty of 1.025

[maynardjames]

how could YOU sell someone a product you believe to be worthless & harmful to their reef?
you said I have buckets to get rid of. are you going to sell them just like company your complaining about?
if you really think salt is soooo bad why not give it away?
are you selling them for full price just like terrible company your bashing on this thread? just curious. you have nothing to hide or do you?

[ChrisKirkland]

Originally posted by maynardjames
how could YOU sell someone a product you believe to be worthless & harmful to their reef?
you said I have buckets to get rid of. are you going to sell them just like company your complaining about?
if you really think salt is soooo bad why not give it away?
are you selling them for full price just like terrible company your bashing on this thread? just curious. you have nothing to hide or do you?

I PAID for the salt... So I WILL be selling it if they do not accept a return. I'm not loosing money because of their product... So with that being said I'l be waiting to see if they respond and go from there...

[ChrisKirkland]

VEry nice, I have been waiting for someone to post who has had them test their RC mix.

Originally posted by rigleautomotive
Here are my results from AWT a while back when i was using RC.I am curious what my silica readings are now with coral pro.I may send out another sample to get it checked.I really had no algae issues even with this elevated silica level but thats not saying someone else would not.Like its been said earlier in this thread,every tank is different.

AWT results
here are my results from my recent test from AWT
my test results on the big three with salifert on the day i sent in the samples were
alk 9.6
cal 390
mg 1305




Water Test Summary
Ammonia (NH3-4) ........................Good ......................................... 0.008
Nitrite (NO2)................................Good ......................................... 0.001
Nitrate (NO3)...............................Good .............................................0.3
Phosphate (PO4) ..........................Good ........................................... 0.02
Silica (SiO2-3) ............................. High..............................................1.3
Potassium (K) ...............................Low............................................. 316
Calcium (Ca)................................Good ............................................ 401
Boron (B) .....................................Low..............................................2.9
Molybdenum (Mo).........................Good .............................................0.1
Strontium (Sr) .............................Good .............................................9.8
Magnesium (Mg) ..........................Good .......................................... 1246
Iodine (I¯)....................................Low............................................ 0.00
Copper (Cu++) ............................Good ........................................... 0.02
Alkalinity (meq/L).........................Good ........................................... 3.09
Thank you for your business! Please let us know if you have
questions, comments, or concerns.
Please remember that the information that accompanies your tested
values is a courtesy and is offered only to frame the results in a way
meaningful to the aquarium hobbyist. The NSW values, acceptable
ranges and recommendations are not meant to replace the advice of
aquarium professionals and experienced hobbyists.

Ammonia (NH3-4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.050 mg/L
Tested: 0.008 mg/L
(GOOD) Your ammonia level is within the recommended range. We recommend staying
with the current feeding and stocking levels. Be sure to maintain a good schedule of water
changes and additives. Ammonia levels can rise after the addition of new animals, after a
water change, or after the changing of food diet. Any ammonia level above 0.05 mg/L is a
cause for concern, and the source should be found and corrected.
Nitrite (NO2)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.010 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.100 mg/L
Tested: 0.001 mg/L
(GOOD) Your nitrite level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current maintenance and feeding schedules. Residual levels of nitrite are common
in marine aquariums. Levels of 0.05 or less are of little concern. If the levels are higher than
this, the source should be found and corrected.
Nitrate (NO3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.050 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 25 mg/L
Tested: 0.3 mg/L
(GOOD) Your nitrate level is within the recommended range. Be sure to maintain
reasonable stocking and feeding levels, as well as a regular water change schedule. Nitrate
is not toxic in and of itself, but a rising level is indicative of deteriorating water conditions,
and any level above 5.0 mg/L in reef aquariums is a reason for concern.

Phosphate (PO4)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.250 mg/L
Tested: 0.02 mg/L
(GOOD) Your phosphate level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
the current maintenance and water change schedule. The use of a phosphate absorbing
resin is recommended to keep phosphate levels below 0.05 mg/L.

** SILICA_______ (Sio2-3)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.040 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.500 mg/L
Tested: 1.3 mg/L
(HIGH) Your silica level is too high. We recommend that you use a silica specific R/O
membrane in addition to deionization resin for your make-up/top-off water. You may also
use a commercially available phosphate absorber, as these will also remove some silicate.
Silicate is required by many types of sponges for growth/reproduction, but will also
encourage brown diatom algae growth. Any level above 0.3 mg/L may cause a diatom
bloom in the aquarium.

Potassium (K)
Natural Seawater Value: 390 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/L
Tested: 316 mg/L
(LOW) Your potassium level is too low. We recommend performing a partial water change,
and possibly adding a commercial additive containing potassium. Potassium is rapidly
depleted from aquarium water by several plant and animal metabolic processes.
Maintenance of appropriate levels is critical for cellular respiration, as well as being an
important nutrient for coral zooxanthellae and macro algae.

Calcium (Ca)
Natural Seawater Value: 400 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 350 to 450 mg/L*
*These values represent only the amount of free calcium ions present in the samples. According to Randy Holmes-Farley, the
total calcium concentration can be 10% to 20% higher.
Tested: 401 mg/L
(GOOD) Your calcium level is within the recommended range. We recommend that you
continue with your current schedule of calcium additions. Calcium is critical to healthy coral
skeletal growth, and many other biological processes. Maintenance of calcium levels that are
at or near seawater values is an important factor in having a healthy reef aquarium.
Boron (B)
Natural Seawater Value: 4.6 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 3.0 – 6.0 mg/L
Tested: 2.9 mg/L
(LOW) Your boron level is too low. We recommend performing a water change, and
possibly the addition of a commercial buffer containing borate salts. Boron is an important
part of the water buffering capacity, and a lack of boron can lead to dangerous fluctuations
in pH and alkalinity.
Molybdenum (Mo)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.01 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.0 to 0.12 mg/L
Tested: 0.1 mg/L
(GOOD) Your molybdenum level is within the recommended range. Molybdenum is found
in many common additives and at highly elevated levels in most salt mixes and so a vast
majority of reef tanks demonstrate a level 10 to 50 times higher than natural levels. 0.12
mg/L is the upper toxicity limit for Molybdenum, the point at which negative effects can
begin to manifest themselves. Your level is below this limit and is in proximity to natural
sea water values. Molybdenum is important to microbial activity in the aquarium filter, and
may also be important to stony coral health and reproduction.

Strontium (Sr)
Natural Seawater Value: 8.1 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 5.0 to 12.0 mg/L
Tested: 9.8 mg/L
(GOOD) Your strontium level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current additive schedules. Strontium is important to coral growth, as they
incorporate strontium ions into their skeletal mass, particularly SPS corals. It is also
important to coralline algae growth.
Magnesium (Mg)
Natural Seawater Value: 1280 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 1100 to 1400 mg/L
Tested: 1246 mg/L
(GOOD) Your magnesium level is within the recommended range. We recommend staying
with your current water change and additive schedule. Magnesium is a very important part
of the water buffering system, and is incorporated into coral skeletons. It is also critical to
any photosynthetic processes.
Iodine (I¯)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.060 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.030 to 0.090 mg/L
Tested: 0.00 mg/L
(LOW) Your iodine level is too low. We recommend using an iodine-specific additive to raise
this level. Iodine is removed from the water by various biological processes, protein
skimming, and activated carbon. Iodine is required by soft corals, macro algae, and for
pigment development in SPS corals.

Copper (Cu++)
Natural Seawater Value: 0.030 mg/L
Acceptable Range: 0.000 to 0.030 mg/L
Tested: 0.02 mg/L
(GOOD) Your copper level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current water change schedule, being careful to use only RO/DI water for makeup/
top-off water. Use of activated carbon can also help keep this level in check. Copper is
fatal to marine invertebrates at levels as low as 0.05 mg/L for many species.
Alkalinity (meq/L)
Natural Seawater Value: 2.5 meq/L
Acceptable Range: 2.5 to 5.0 meq/L
Tested: 3.09 meq/L
(GOOD) Your alkalinity level is within the recommended range. We recommend continuing
with your current water change and buffering schedule. Maintaining an appropriate alkalinity
is crucial to maintaining a healthy aquarium. A fluctuating alkalinity will lead to serious
problems in maintaining an appropriate pH, as well as problems keeping calcium and
magnesium levels within required ranges.
Thank you for using AquariumWaterTesting.com


__________________

[RRaider]

But, that isn't a test on RC, it's a test on his tank water and the testing company seems to indicate they believe it's source is something other than his salt.

I just have a hard time believing RC is the source of your trouble when there are so many of us who use it who don't have the same issue.

[ChrisKirkland]

Originally posted by RRaider
But, that isn't a test on RC, it's a test on his tank water and the testing company seems to indicate they believe it's source is something other than his salt.

I just have a hard time believing RC is the source of your trouble when there are so many of us who use it who don't have the same issue.

After further research on RC, I found that many has had this problem when switching to RC (i.e. in the form of algae, dino, etc.) After I sent RC a sample to test they concluded that the batch was light on some elements, however they did not disclose the results to me. So there was something wrong with my RC mix and RC agreed with me (for once). Thats what I have to say about it. I'm not tell anyone to stop using it, just be sure you check your params...

[DeathWish302]

I just have a hard time believing RC is the source of your trouble when there are so many of us who use it who don't have the same issue.

+1,000,000

Used RC & IO since early 2001 and have no problems. I have the sludge that everyone is freaking out about, but what do you expect for a reasonably priced product.
The residue could be impurities bound with the calcium carbonate. If you have ever dosed Driveway heat in a DIY 2-Part, you'll expereince the same precipitate. My WC portion is crystal clear.
I clean the Brute out once every 6 months and move on. If you think your money is better spent elsewhere, buy another brand. My next two salt choices are Kent and then TM.

The fact is IO has been doing this for longer than most other companies and have a long track record. My make-up water ain't broke and won't be 'fixed' by another salt.