Two or Three Vortech mp10s vs one mp40?

ironwill723 · 07/21/2009, 11:17 AM

Debating which vortech to purchase. I could get 2-3 mp 10s for the same ballpark of cost as an mp 40 plus battery backup system. mp 10s are smaller have up to 1500 gph and would work on my thickness of glass 3/8". Just debating in my head. I'm guessing most will say go bigger with the mp 40?

WhoDey64 · 07/21/2009, 11:23 AM

If its for the 120 I would say go with the larger mp40, but if its for a smaller system I would rather have three mp10s to localize the water currents.

dennisdeng2002 · 07/21/2009, 11:25 AM

3 mp10's would allow you to customize flow, but even if they are smaller than 1 mp40, would look a little unsightly on a smaller tank

ironwill723 · 07/21/2009, 11:29 AM

It is for my new build 120g (5ft long) peninsula. I will only be putting powerheads on the overflow end of the tank (against wall) the other 3 sides will have no obstructions. My thinking was 2-3 smaller powerheads might be better than one larger one for that application. Over flow from sump will be discharged at opposite end of tank via pvc pipe from above.

WhoDey64 · 07/21/2009, 11:42 AM

Vortechs are unsightly regardless of the quantity and I admitting am not their biggest fan. I hear about shaft failures & controllers frying on a regular basis, and to be honest for a product as overpriced as a vortech, the quality control should be a bit better, even if the support of the product is top notch.

That said the biggest negative in my book is linear flow, being locked into left to right front to back. Given the choice I would rather be able to direct flow where needed rather than blast one end of the tank with a pump on the opposite end of the tank. That is why I would rather have three doing the proper job over one doing something poorly, aesthetics are truly secondary on this one.

Mike31154 · 07/21/2009, 12:03 PM

I have two MP40W's at opposite sides of my 75 and they are great. No experience with the MP10, but IMO they would be too small for a 120, assuming you will be keeping some corals? I'd say another advantage of the MP40W over the MP10 is that they can wirelessly communicate with each other providing much more flexibility in flow options. But, if you're only considering one MP40W, that's a moot point.

I'd also like to point out that I'm speaking from personal experience and not providing information second hand or what I've 'heard'. My first MP40W is over a year old and the second I just added recently. I had minor issues with the first one, it was a Gen 1 and the magnet needed replacing. This was a low cost repair and included a new shaft and bearing since the assembly with the new magnet is slightly different. Just prior to the warranty running out, I reported to EcoTech that the dry side seemed to make a bit of an unusual noise. They had me send it in and repaired under warranty no questions asked. The pump had not failed, I simply thought the noise might be cause for concern and wanted to take advantage of the warranty period just in case.

To me the linear flow is not a negative, but a positive. It is broad and if placed wisely, there is no need to direct it in any other way. With the various modes available as well as speed control, there's no need to blast anything, especially if you use two instead of one. This allows you to run them at less than max speed and still get great flow everywhere. Three MP10 will be running full out on your 120 to provide adequate flow I reckon. Even a single MP40W will likely need to be running full bore.

surge19us · 07/21/2009, 12:41 PM

I have a 120 with two mp40's. I started out with just one and it moved a lot of water. It will create a tremendous undertow in your 120. I would go with one of these to start. I am not sure the mp10 will move enough water the length of the tank. as your tank grows in you may need more flow but for now one mp40 will be plenty.

Amoore311 · 07/21/2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Vortechs are unsightly regardless of the quantity and I admitting am not their biggest fan. I hear about shaft failures & controllers frying on a regular basis, and to be honest for a product as overpriced as a vortech, the quality control should be a bit better, even if the support of the product is top notch.

That said the biggest negative in my book is linear flow, being locked into left to right front to back. Given the choice I would rather be able to direct flow where needed rather than blast one end of the tank with a pump on the opposite end of the tank. That is why I would rather have three doing the proper job over one doing something poorly, aesthetics are truly secondary on this one.

If you consider vortechs unsightly, then you must only use closed loops in all of your tanks. They take up the least space in the tank in regards to comparable output power heads.

I've also never had, or heard of any problems in regards to failing shafts or controllers in the last year or so. They had a problem with the magnets, and the problem was fixed and has been fixed for over a year. I've also owned 2 vortechs for over 1 year, and have had not a single problem with either one.

As far as the flow goes, this post pretty much sum's it up for me:

Quote:

To me the linear flow is not a negative, but a positive. It is broad and if placed wisely, there is no need to direct it in any other way. With the various modes available as well as speed control, there's no need to blast anything, especially if you use two instead of one. This allows you to run them at less than max speed and still get great flow everywhere. Three MP10 will be running full out on your 120 to provide adequate flow I reckon. Even a single MP40W will likely need to be running full bore.

ironwill723 · 07/21/2009, 10:28 PM

Even more to think about now... I was originally thinking closed loop but vortech's just seemed to give me more options and ability to take out or change if I ever needed or wanted to switch to something else. Closed loop seems so permanent in regards to holes and placement, however CL cost is significantly less I would think?

Linina · 07/21/2009, 10:34 PM

You have to consider the cost of the CL pump and all the plumbing parts (not insignificant, at least IME), and the ongoing running costs.

We built a closed loop on our 40 breeder and I wish we would have just bought an MP40w for the tank instead.

Jorober · 07/21/2009, 10:40 PM

I'd go with the three mp10s personally. Their combined flow would be about 4500 gph. The one mp40 would only push a max of 3200 gph. And you could mix up the direction of the flow better with three outlets versus one.

Jorober · 07/21/2009, 10:44 PM

If closed loop is an option, I drilled only one hole in my tank for mine. That hole is the drain for the closed loop. My returns run through two 1" sea swirls so that the flow is constantly variable. Had to be able to afford the pump (a dart) and the sea swirls, but I love it much more than when I had ANY powerheads in the tank. And there is definately no need for any now.

ironwill723 · 07/21/2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jorober
I'd go with the three mp10s personally. Their combined flow would be about 4500 gph. The one mp40 would only push a max of 3200 gph. And you could mix up the direction of the flow better with three outlets versus one.

Thats what I was thinking as well...I am however concerned about flow of mp10s reaching to the far end of the tank as it is 5ft long.

demonboy369 · 07/22/2009, 01:01 AM

3 1500gph powerheads pushing in one direction. As long as you can get them tuned to push at as close as possible to the same time you wont have to worry much about 5 foot length.

I say the same the 3 is better than the 1. Closed loop would be a good idea as well but as pointed out, cost comes into play.

VacavilleFC3S · 07/22/2009, 04:17 AM

i'm going to purchase an mp10 to supplement current in my 90g, i'm currently using a seio p1500 and thats too much

nattarbox · 07/22/2009, 06:56 AM

I have an MP-20 in a 30" long tank. I'm guessing you're going to want the bigger one.

Keep in mind you most likely won't be running any Vortech at full blast 100% of the time (if you are, just get a cheap powerhead without a controller), so 1500gph is a theoretically max you will very rarely even peak at.

nattarbox · 07/22/2009, 07:00 AM

To elaborate, if I needed to push water down the length of a 120 gallon tank, I'd want a pump raging between 1000 and 3200gph, not three small pumps ranging between 800 and 1500gph.

Unless maybe you got four MP10s and tried to duplicate what is going on in this video.

Naffster · 07/22/2009, 08:26 AM

Im using a MP 40 on a 70 and it is doing a great job. If your planning on keeping coral I don't think an MP10 will give you the flow needed the entire way across your tank

jb61264 · 07/22/2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by surge19us
I have a 120 with two mp40's. I started out with just one and it moved a lot of water. It will create a tremendous undertow in your 120. I would go with one of these to start. I am not sure the mp10 will move enough water the length of the tank. as your tank grows in you may need more flow but for now one mp40 will be plenty.

Wow...2 MP40's in a 75...do you have them dialed down a bit? how do you have them set up?

jb61264 · 07/22/2009, 10:17 AM

What is everyone's return to the display tank flow rate?..shouldn't this be a consideration when looking into the total flow throughout your tank? or does everyone write that off and only consider internal powerheads as flow in the tank?

ironwill723 · 07/22/2009, 10:22 AM

I was considering fish and coral selection for the new tank. I know I want a tang or two and definitely soft and lps corals.

surge19us · 07/22/2009, 10:53 AM

If your not going to have any SPS one mp40 will be sufficient for what you are planning.

Mike31154 · 07/22/2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jb61264
Wow...2 MP40's in a 75...do you have them dialed down a bit? how do you have them set up?

Your quote appears to have been for the member with two in a 120, but I do indeed have two MP40W in a 75. Also started with only one running for about a year, then added the second a couple of months ago. When I had only the single pump, for the majority of the time I ran it in short pulse mode at 100% using the longest pulse duration I could get with the original firmware. I purchased the first VorTech a month or so before they started shipping the Gen 2 models...arghh. Anyhow, the mode I was using provided a nice back & forth flow and undertow throughout most of the tank. I did find the flow was lacking at the far side of this 4 foot tank though. I have no sump and the only other flow is minor, from a canister filter output blowing at an angle from the far corner, negligible really. I run the canister empty except for a little carbon.

Now that I have two MP40W, along with new firmware (yay), I use the new long pulse mode and have the pumps dialed down to around 75%. I use the Master/Slave configuration with the Slave running in anti synch mode. To me this has a number of advantages:

1. More even, moderate flow throughout the whole tank
2. Less wear on the pumps since they're not ramping up to full bore any longer
3. Less noise for the same reason as 2. BTW, the new pump is a tad quieter than the original, neither is obtrusively loud though
4. Redundancy, if one craps out or needs cleaning, I have a backup. Customer service is A1, but it still takes a week or two turnaround time for me to send it east and receive it back in western Canada
5. More flexibility with flow since the drivers are able to communicate with each other. Synch, anti-synch, random modes....
6. I now use the 'Night' mode since with two pumps there will still be plenty of flow. The firmware with the original driver did not have this option and it's unlikely I would have used it with only a single pump anyway. Not sure dialing down the flow that much at night is necessarily a good thing.

Good luck with your decision, but remember, the MP10 is really designed as a device for nano set ups and using a bunch of them on a larger system means more electrical cords, plugs required etc..

jb61264 · 07/22/2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike31154
Your quote appears to have been for the member with two in a 120, but I do indeed have two MP40W in a 75. Also started with only one running for about a year, then added the second a couple of months ago. When I had only the single pump, for the majority of the time I ran it in short pulse mode at 100% using the longest pulse duration I could get with the original firmware. I purchased the first VorTech a month or so before they started shipping the Gen 2 models...arghh. Anyhow, the mode I was using provided a nice back & forth flow and undertow throughout most of the tank. I did find the flow was lacking at the far side of this 4 foot tank though. I have no sump and the only other flow is minor, from a canister filter output blowing at an angle from the far corner, negligible really. I run the canister empty except for a little carbon.

Now that I have two MP40W, along with new firmware (yay), I use the new long pulse mode and have the pumps dialed down to around 75%. I use the Master/Slave configuration with the Slave running in anti synch mode. To me this has a number of advantages:

1. More even, moderate flow throughout the whole tank
2. Less wear on the pumps since they're not ramping up to full bore any longer
3. Less noise for the same reason as 2. BTW, the new pump is a tad quieter than the original, neither is obtrusively loud though
4. Redundancy, if one craps out or needs cleaning, I have a backup. Customer service is A1, but it still takes a week or two turnaround time for me to send it east and receive it back in western Canada
5. More flexibility with flow since the drivers are able to communicate with each other. Synch, anti-synch, random modes....
6. I now use the 'Night' mode since with two pumps there will still be plenty of flow. The firmware with the original driver did not have this option and it's unlikely I would have used it with only a single pump anyway. Not sure dialing down the flow that much at night is necessarily a good thing.

Good luck with your decision, but remember, the MP10 is really designed as a device for nano set ups and using a bunch of them on a larger system means more electrical cords, plugs required etc..

Thanks for the info Mike...I have a Mag 18 as my return pump from a 55 gallon sump/fuge to my 75...I have about 4' of lift so I calculated roughly 1300 gph using the Mag 18 flow charts...I split my returns so I guesstimate about 600-650 coming from either one of them which by themselves gave some small ripples on the surface. I am thinking I might add a couple Koralias with a wavemaker to get some random flow going.

07/21/2009, 11:17 AM	#1
ironwill723 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 980	Two or Three Vortech mp10s vs one mp40? Debating which vortech to purchase. I could get 2-3 mp 10s for the same ballpark of cost as an mp 40 plus battery backup system. mp 10s are smaller have up to 1500 gph and would work on my thickness of glass 3/8". Just debating in my head. I'm guessing most will say go bigger with the mp 40?

07/21/2009, 11:23 AM	#2
WhoDey64 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida Posts: 1,311	If its for the 120 I would say go with the larger mp40, but if its for a smaller system I would rather have three mp10s to localize the water currents. __________________ My name is Robert and I am addicted to Nitrates.

07/21/2009, 11:42 AM	#5
WhoDey64 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ft Lauderdale Florida Posts: 1,311	Vortechs are unsightly regardless of the quantity and I admitting am not their biggest fan. I hear about shaft failures & controllers frying on a regular basis, and to be honest for a product as overpriced as a vortech, the quality control should be a bit better, even if the support of the product is top notch. That said the biggest negative in my book is linear flow, being locked into left to right front to back. Given the choice I would rather be able to direct flow where needed rather than blast one end of the tank with a pump on the opposite end of the tank. That is why I would rather have three doing the proper job over one doing something poorly, aesthetics are truly secondary on this one. __________________ My name is Robert and I am addicted to Nitrates.

07/21/2009, 12:03 PM	#6
Mike31154 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,555	I have two MP40W's at opposite sides of my 75 and they are great. No experience with the MP10, but IMO they would be too small for a 120, assuming you will be keeping some corals? I'd say another advantage of the MP40W over the MP10 is that they can wirelessly communicate with each other providing much more flexibility in flow options. But, if you're only considering one MP40W, that's a moot point. I'd also like to point out that I'm speaking from personal experience and not providing information second hand or what I've 'heard'. My first MP40W is over a year old and the second I just added recently. I had minor issues with the first one, it was a Gen 1 and the magnet needed replacing. This was a low cost repair and included a new shaft and bearing since the assembly with the new magnet is slightly different. Just prior to the warranty running out, I reported to EcoTech that the dry side seemed to make a bit of an unusual noise. They had me send it in and repaired under warranty no questions asked. The pump had not failed, I simply thought the noise might be cause for concern and wanted to take advantage of the warranty period just in case. To me the linear flow is not a negative, but a positive. It is broad and if placed wisely, there is no need to direct it in any other way. With the various modes available as well as speed control, there's no need to blast anything, especially if you use two instead of one. This allows you to run them at less than max speed and still get great flow everywhere. Three MP10 will be running full out on your 120 to provide adequate flow I reckon. Even a single MP40W will likely need to be running full bore. __________________ Mike Current Tank Info: 77g sumpless sw with rock, sand, a few critters, fishes & polyps. Lights, pumps.....

07/21/2009, 12:41 PM	#7
surge19us Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Willard, Oh Posts: 656	I have a 120 with two mp40's. I started out with just one and it moved a lot of water. It will create a tremendous undertow in your 120. I would go with one of these to start. I am not sure the mp10 will move enough water the length of the tank. as your tank grows in you may need more flow but for now one mp40 will be plenty. __________________ Sean Current Tank Info: 120 gal 30 gal sump/fuge, ATB Econo 840 skimmer, 2 Vortech MP40w, AC Jr., 2-250watt MH 20K Radiums, Lumen Max 2 reflectors, 2 tek T5 retro actinic, Prime chiller, ATO/kalk reactor, drews dosers on two part.

07/21/2009, 11:25 AM	#3
dennisdeng2002 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 57	3 mp10's would allow you to customize flow, but even if they are smaller than 1 mp40, would look a little unsightly on a smaller tank

07/21/2009, 11:29 AM	#4
ironwill723 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 980	It is for my new build 120g (5ft long) peninsula. I will only be putting powerheads on the overflow end of the tank (against wall) the other 3 sides will have no obstructions. My thinking was 2-3 smaller powerheads might be better than one larger one for that application. Over flow from sump will be discharged at opposite end of tank via pvc pipe from above.

07/21/2009, 10:28 PM	#9
ironwill723 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 980	Even more to think about now... I was originally thinking closed loop but vortech's just seemed to give me more options and ability to take out or change if I ever needed or wanted to switch to something else. Closed loop seems so permanent in regards to holes and placement, however CL cost is significantly less I would think?

07/21/2009, 10:34 PM	#10
Linina Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Aurora, Colorado Posts: 366	You have to consider the cost of the CL pump and all the plumbing parts (not insignificant, at least IME), and the ongoing running costs. We built a closed loop on our 40 breeder and I wish we would have just bought an MP40w for the tank instead. __________________ 40 breeder, Elos Mini Current Tank Info: 40 breeder, elos mini

07/21/2009, 10:40 PM	#11
Jorober Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Corbett, OR Posts: 109	I'd go with the three mp10s personally. Their combined flow would be about 4500 gph. The one mp40 would only push a max of 3200 gph. And you could mix up the direction of the flow better with three outlets versus one.

07/21/2009, 10:44 PM	#12
Jorober Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Corbett, OR Posts: 109	If closed loop is an option, I drilled only one hole in my tank for mine. That hole is the drain for the closed loop. My returns run through two 1" sea swirls so that the flow is constantly variable. Had to be able to afford the pump (a dart) and the sea swirls, but I love it much more than when I had ANY powerheads in the tank. And there is definately no need for any now.

07/22/2009, 01:01 AM	#14
demonboy369 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: west virginia Posts: 360	3 1500gph powerheads pushing in one direction. As long as you can get them tuned to push at as close as possible to the same time you wont have to worry much about 5 foot length. I say the same the 3 is better than the 1. Closed loop would be a good idea as well but as pointed out, cost comes into play. __________________ L0S3R CVRC ------------------------------------------------ To check out my thread on Gorgonia Fragging click my red house Current Tank Info: 2g pico reef with 13w pc lighting stocked with zoos and a small hammer... 29g in progress (diy aquaclear 500 fuge)

07/22/2009, 04:17 AM	#15
VacavilleFC3S Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vacaville California Posts: 2,613	i'm going to purchase an mp10 to supplement current in my 90g, i'm currently using a seio p1500 and thats too much

07/22/2009, 06:56 AM	#16
nattarbox Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 431	I have an MP-20 in a 30" long tank. I'm guessing you're going to want the bigger one. Keep in mind you most likely won't be running any Vortech at full blast 100% of the time (if you are, just get a cheap powerhead without a controller), so 1500gph is a theoretically max you will very rarely even peak at.

07/22/2009, 07:00 AM	#17
nattarbox Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 431	To elaborate, if I needed to push water down the length of a 120 gallon tank, I'd want a pump raging between 1000 and 3200gph, not three small pumps ranging between 800 and 1500gph. Unless maybe you got four MP10s and tried to duplicate what is going on in this video.

07/22/2009, 08:26 AM	#18
Naffster Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18	Im using a MP 40 on a 70 and it is doing a great job. If your planning on keeping coral I don't think an MP10 will give you the flow needed the entire way across your tank

07/22/2009, 10:17 AM	#20
jb61264 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 1,112	What is everyone's return to the display tank flow rate?..shouldn't this be a consideration when looking into the total flow throughout your tank? or does everyone write that off and only consider internal powerheads as flow in the tank? __________________ In the end (and the begining) we're all just stardust anyway... Current Tank Info: 75 gallon SPS reef/55 gallon sump/6x54W TEK T5HO/Reef Octopus 200 Extreme Skimmer/Reef Octopus Single Chamber Calcium Reactor/RKL

07/22/2009, 10:22 AM	#21
ironwill723 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 980	I was considering fish and coral selection for the new tank. I know I want a tang or two and definitely soft and lps corals.

07/22/2009, 10:53 AM	#22
surge19us Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Willard, Oh Posts: 656	If your not going to have any SPS one mp40 will be sufficient for what you are planning. __________________ Sean Current Tank Info: 120 gal 30 gal sump/fuge, ATB Econo 840 skimmer, 2 Vortech MP40w, AC Jr., 2-250watt MH 20K Radiums, Lumen Max 2 reflectors, 2 tek T5 retro actinic, Prime chiller, ATO/kalk reactor, drews dosers on two part.