Help figuring out pump solution.

PowermanKW · 07/26/2009, 08:25 PM

I have a 90g w/ a Mag 9.5 return. My temp I want is 79.5-80. On hot days it has been hitting 82. My return is plumbed to 1" flex, that tees to 2x3/4" lines. I have a Herbie overflow. 1 1/4" stand pipe, passing the 1" bulkhead, opening up to a 1 1/4" drain line. My return pump is throttled because wide open will out do my overflow.

I have a Mag 7 on my JBJ chiller. It says it can do 250-750gph. I take it out of my return section in the sump, and return it to the other side for the return to the Mag 9.5.

OK, I put my chiller back on. My Mag 7 sounds like crap. I have replaced the impeller, same thing. I think it is adding too much heat from running bad. I need to replace my Mag 7.

So...... Questions...... I was thinking of going to a Eheim 1260 for my chiller. Was wondering if a 1262 for my return could do double duty. I'm borderline on needing my chiller. I would love not to need it. I thought about going external, but then worried about wasting that heat to the air when I will need it in the Winter. I don't think my chiller will pass enough water to run all my return through it.

Get a Eheim 1262 to loose some heat, and split some return to my chiller when needed? Will that be enough flow for tank turn over and chiller?

Go air cooled external and add another heater which I would run both return and chiller with when needed. (I need a 400w to keep my temp up even in Summer. My 300w was not cutting it.)?

Just get a Eheim 1260 for the chiller and call it good. Take out in Winter? Replace my 9.5 with a 1262 down the road.

Poeticlydead · 07/26/2009, 08:40 PM

You never mention how much head you have on the pump.

What is the head on the return pump (how far from pump to outlet?)
Are you running the chiller now and it is only staying 82 degrees?
Is 82 the temp without the chiller?
What temp do you keep your tank room at?

I have my sump directly under my 90 gallon tank and use a Mag 7 so unless you got alot of head or for some reason just want alot of flow in the sump the 9.5 is fine if not overkill. (not sure what if any effect higher altitude might have)

PowermanKW · 07/26/2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Poeticlydead
You never mention how much head you have on the pump.

What is the head on the return pump (how far from pump to outlet?)
Are you running the chiller now and it is only staying 82 degrees?
Is 82 the temp without the chiller?
What temp do you keep your tank room at?

I have my sump directly under my 90 gallon tank and use a Mag 7 so unless you got alot of head or for some reason just want alot of flow in the sump the 9.5 is fine if not overkill. (not sure what if any effect higher altitude might have)

Right. I have my sump in my stairway closet but it is just on the otherside of the wall. So my head is just the normal 4 feet. The air is thinner, but it's all relative, so Altitude does not change anything.

It finnaly got hot and was hitting 82 without the chiller. When the haides are not on, I need the heater to keep it up to temp. My tank is on the lowerlevel, with no AC. Don't really need it in colorado. so the room stays reasonable. I lost a ton of heat putting my sump in my closet. Cool in there.

And ya, the 9.5 came with the set up, but I don't care for needless turn over rates. My skimmer can only move so much so I see no need just to pump water.

Poeticlydead · 07/26/2009, 10:18 PM

In my opinion the 9.5 is over kill on your 90 gallon tank but "if it ain't broke don't fix it" or so I keep getting told by my wife.

82 is with in safe range for most reefs especially if it isn't constant or overly spikey though I know there are cold water varieties that demand lower temps. You could probally use a fan mounted in your closet blowing across the sump to drop the temp when needed.

So you could
1) set up fans to cool the system forget the chiller and pump (might be worth a try)
2) forget the whole cooling thing in the first place if your system can handle swings into the low 80s
3) use the 9.5 on the chiller if it needs the higher flow and put a mag 7 on the return (if plumbing will allow for this)
4) buy a new pump for the chiller leave everything else alone forget we ever discussed this and go about your day

Personally I would research the stock in your tank and make a new post here to discuss if you even need to worry about your tank hitting 82 every now and then.

sjm817 · 07/26/2009, 10:23 PM

I agree. If you are hitting 82 with no chiller, I wouldn't worry about it.

PowermanKW · 07/26/2009, 10:27 PM

Appriciate the input.

PowermanKW · 07/26/2009, 10:29 PM

Maily Montis, couple of rics, brains, candy canes, favias, and a Acan and Galaxia. Some zoas and pipe organ. Nothing crazy.

I also though about seeing if I could get away fans only. Maybe I will give it a shot this week.

Lightsluvr · 07/26/2009, 10:34 PM

I did a quick read and didn't notice what chiller you are using, but the CL=650 I used added 5 feet of head pressure all by itself. The Eheim won't cut it in double duty service, IMHO. You'll be disappointed with your return flow, I think.

The Mag pumps are great water heaters... that's part of your issue, I think. Get a cooler running pump for your returns and you might not need your chiller. The Eheim or Quiet One pumps are efficient, less heat and great for your returns (only).

I put a pair of clip-on Wal-Mart fans over the sump - put them on the same timer as the lights. When the lights came on, the fans came on... didn't need the chiller, even though I was running Metal Halides at the time.

Just a thought and you'd save a lot of energy...

LL

PowermanKW · 07/26/2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lightsluvr
I did a quick read and didn't notice what chiller you are using, but the CL=650 I used added 5 feet of head pressure all by itself. The Eheim won't cut it in double duty service, IMHO. You'll be disappointed with your return flow, I think.

The Mag pumps are great water heaters... that's part of your issue, I think. Get a cooler running pump for your returns and you might not need your chiller. The Eheim or Quiet One pumps are efficient, less heat and great for your returns (only).

I put a pair of clip-on Wal-Mart fans over the sump - put them on the same timer as the lights. When the lights came on, the fans came on... didn't need the chiller, even though I was running Metal Halides at the time.

Just a thought and you'd save a lot of energy...

LL

I have a JBJ Arctica 075. All I have seen is a flow rating for it, but don't know how much restriction it would add. Max flow rate is 795gph

Ya... that is my point. Use my power consumption efficiently for my needs. Since I need to replace the Mag 7, I thought maybe I could put the money in a 1262 for my return and would solve my problems and I would not need the chiller.

I thought about fans over my sump, but not sure how well that would work in a closed closet. There would be evaporation, but no where to go. So far no need for an exhaust fan. Thought about a fan over my DT.

Poeticlydead · 07/26/2009, 11:22 PM

If you are going to buy a pump anyway get a smaller pump something closer to the mag 7s rating in a quiet one or Eheim to run the return and see if the chiller is even needed. If it is the mag 9 should handle the chiller though you may need to throttle it some or keep the 9 buy a pump for the chiller.

PowermanKW · 07/26/2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Poeticlydead
If you are going to buy a pump anyway get a smaller pump something closer to the mag 7s rating in a quiet one or Eheim to run the return and see if the chiller is even needed. If it is the mag 9 should handle the chiller though you may need to throttle it some or keep the 9 buy a pump for the chiller.

Duh...good sugestion. A 1260 could do my return and that would save nearly 100w over what I have now. (9.5 + the 7)

PowermanKW · 07/27/2009, 07:33 AM

Well a 1260 says it will do 460 gph at3'. So a little over 400 gph at 4'. I don't think that will be enough for my sump and fuge.

sjm817 · 07/27/2009, 08:17 AM

That is plenty of flow. It will be a bit less than the Mag9, but not as much as you think.

3 - 5x display size is generally what is recommended. 270 - 450 GPH for a 90G.

PowermanKW · 07/27/2009, 09:02 AM

I keep seeing that rate. Maybe. I need to see who carries them here in town. I might give it a shot. I was thinking I could keep my 9.5 around and run it in the winter.

DarG · 07/27/2009, 11:44 AM

Maybe I missed something but why not just put the chiller in line with the return pump and forget the second pump all together. Im not sure why you are using a second pump to pull from the sump to the chiller and back to the sump. But again, maybe I missed something.

So ... return pump from sump, through chiller, to tank.

PowermanKW · 07/27/2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarG
Maybe I missed something but why not just put the chiller in line with the return pump and forget the second pump all together. Im not sure why you are using a second pump to pull from the sump to the chiller and back to the sump. But again, maybe I missed something.

So ... return pump from sump, through chiller, to tank.

You didn't miss that much. I'm not sure how much flow I can put through my chiller. The manual says 750 max. Then I still have 4' of head. So I don't know how much actual flow I will get from my 9.5 with all that.

But yes... you are right. I have been looking into how much flow I really need through my sump. I could ditch the 7 and just use the 9.5. I was thinking of splitting my flow though to the chiller instead of putting every thing through it.

I still might get a 1262 and do the same thing. It would still make less heat than the 9.5.

DarG · 07/27/2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PowermanKW
You didn't miss that much. I'm not sure how much flow I can put through my chiller. The manual says 750 max. Then I still have 4' of head. So I don't know how much actual flow I will get from my 9.5 with all that.

But yes... you are right. I have been looking into how much flow I really need through my sump. I could ditch the 7 and just use the 9.5. I was thinking of splitting my flow though to the chiller instead of putting every thing through it.

I still might get a 1262 and do the same thing. It would still make less heat than the 9.5.

Well, I think that you're flow through the overflow bulkhead is limited to about 600 GPH because of the 1" bulkhead despite your stanpipe and drain being 1 1/4". I could be mistaken but I believe that is correct or should be close. So you are fine in terms of max flow for the chiller because of the flow limit of the overflow bulkhead.
If you run a pump externally, you will reduce the heat it transfers to the water. You just dont want to go with a water cooled pump like the Velocity pumps.
In addition, running a single pump for the return and chiller will reduce the heat transferred to the tank as well.

If you arent running any fans for evaporative cooling, I would do so. They will, in the very least, help your chiller NOT have to run as often. Chiller costs a lot more to operate than a fan.

sjm817 · 07/27/2009, 03:26 PM

I like the idea of just the 1260 as the return. You will lose some heat from the change from the 9.5 and the 7. You were not bad at 82 anyway. If that drops you a couple of degrees, you are in great shape.

My goal if I were in your situation would be to get rid of the need for the chiller.

PowermanKW · 07/27/2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
I like the idea of just the 1260 as the return. You will lose some heat from the change from the 9.5 and the 7. You were not bad at 82 anyway. If that drops you a couple of degrees, you are in great shape.

My goal if I were in your situation would be to get rid of the need for the chiller.

I agree. I'm right on the line. 82 isn't the end of the world, but I don't like that I can't do anything about it. I set my halides to turn off at 82, but will bump that up to 83. A fan is a simple solution. Plus it is always arid here so evaporation is very helpful.

I'm much more comfortable with the flow from a 1260 for my sump. I would hate to pay for a 1260 and need a little more. But I agree with you that it will take care of my need for a chiller.

sjm817 · 07/27/2009, 08:04 PM

If you get the 1260 and decide that you want more flow, you can convert it to a 1262 for cheap. You only need to replace the intake volute.

PowermanKW · 07/27/2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjm817
If you get the 1260 and decide that you want more flow, you can convert it to a 1262 for cheap. You only need to replace the intake volute.

What chu talkin' bout Willis!!!

sjm817 · 07/27/2009, 08:31 PM

A 1260 can be converted to a 1262 and vice verse. To convert a 1260 to a 1262 you need a 7443670 $9.20.

http://eheimparts.com/client/product.aspx?type=1262

PowermanKW · 07/27/2009, 08:42 PM

Done deal. I'll see If my LFS has one.

Poeticlydead · 08/02/2009, 01:53 PM

Good call and now you have an extra mag 9 incase of emergency the 1260 is rated at 400 in your application which is enough for sump. Added benifit you reduce heat transfer to the tank from the 9.5 and with a fan should be able to keep the system at 79 degrees based on the information you have given.

Let us know how it works for you.

PowermanKW · 08/02/2009, 09:16 PM

I chickened out. I got the 1262. Same motor block but a reduced suction port. To me I figured I could just throttle it back which I did. I did not save me an appreciable amount of heat over my 9.5 In fact I was surprised it isn't any more quieter than my 9.5. I will say it pumps more because I had to close my discharge valve more just to get it to the same place.

So this week I'm going to get a clip on fan and put it on my sump and see if it will make the difference. If not, I will tee off to my chiller and control it with my AC Jr.

I'm getting a bigger skimmer too so keeping the same amount of sump flow will not be bad. My skimmer will be processing much more water.

07/26/2009, 08:25 PM	#1
PowermanKW Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,083	Help figuring out pump solution. I have a 90g w/ a Mag 9.5 return. My temp I want is 79.5-80. On hot days it has been hitting 82. My return is plumbed to 1" flex, that tees to 2x3/4" lines. I have a Herbie overflow. 1 1/4" stand pipe, passing the 1" bulkhead, opening up to a 1 1/4" drain line. My return pump is throttled because wide open will out do my overflow. I have a Mag 7 on my JBJ chiller. It says it can do 250-750gph. I take it out of my return section in the sump, and return it to the other side for the return to the Mag 9.5. OK, I put my chiller back on. My Mag 7 sounds like crap. I have replaced the impeller, same thing. I think it is adding too much heat from running bad. I need to replace my Mag 7. So...... Questions...... I was thinking of going to a Eheim 1260 for my chiller. Was wondering if a 1262 for my return could do double duty. I'm borderline on needing my chiller. I would love not to need it. I thought about going external, but then worried about wasting that heat to the air when I will need it in the Winter. I don't think my chiller will pass enough water to run all my return through it. Get a Eheim 1262 to loose some heat, and split some return to my chiller when needed? Will that be enough flow for tank turn over and chiller? Go air cooled external and add another heater which I would run both return and chiller with when needed. (I need a 400w to keep my temp up even in Summer. My 300w was not cutting it.)? Just get a Eheim 1260 for the chiller and call it good. Take out in Winter? Replace my 9.5 with a 1262 down the road.

07/26/2009, 08:40 PM	#2
Poeticlydead Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 414	You never mention how much head you have on the pump. What is the head on the return pump (how far from pump to outlet?) Are you running the chiller now and it is only staying 82 degrees? Is 82 the temp without the chiller? What temp do you keep your tank room at? I have my sump directly under my 90 gallon tank and use a Mag 7 so unless you got alot of head or for some reason just want alot of flow in the sump the 9.5 is fine if not overkill. (not sure what if any effect higher altitude might have) __________________ No, I can't spell and no I don't care how it is spelled. Current Tank Info: 90gal reef tank, 40g FOWLR, couple of nanos

07/26/2009, 10:18 PM	#4
Poeticlydead Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 414	In my opinion the 9.5 is over kill on your 90 gallon tank but "if it ain't broke don't fix it" or so I keep getting told by my wife. 82 is with in safe range for most reefs especially if it isn't constant or overly spikey though I know there are cold water varieties that demand lower temps. You could probally use a fan mounted in your closet blowing across the sump to drop the temp when needed. So you could 1) set up fans to cool the system forget the chiller and pump (might be worth a try) 2) forget the whole cooling thing in the first place if your system can handle swings into the low 80s 3) use the 9.5 on the chiller if it needs the higher flow and put a mag 7 on the return (if plumbing will allow for this) 4) buy a new pump for the chiller leave everything else alone forget we ever discussed this and go about your day Personally I would research the stock in your tank and make a new post here to discuss if you even need to worry about your tank hitting 82 every now and then. __________________ No, I can't spell and no I don't care how it is spelled. Current Tank Info: 90gal reef tank, 40g FOWLR, couple of nanos

07/26/2009, 10:23 PM	#5
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I agree. If you are hitting 82 with no chiller, I wouldn't worry about it. __________________ - Scott

07/26/2009, 10:34 PM	#8
Lightsluvr Tangaroa to 500 gallons Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,855	I did a quick read and didn't notice what chiller you are using, but the CL=650 I used added 5 feet of head pressure all by itself. The Eheim won't cut it in double duty service, IMHO. You'll be disappointed with your return flow, I think. The Mag pumps are great water heaters... that's part of your issue, I think. Get a cooler running pump for your returns and you might not need your chiller. The Eheim or Quiet One pumps are efficient, less heat and great for your returns (only). I put a pair of clip-on Wal-Mart fans over the sump - put them on the same timer as the lights. When the lights came on, the fans came on... didn't need the chiller, even though I was running Metal Halides at the time. Just a thought and you'd save a lot of energy... LL __________________ Click on my username and select "Lightsluvr's Home Page" for a recap of our build thread - AGE Hybrid Tank in a 500G system with dedicated fish room. (Takes a few minutes for photos to load) Leave a note if you stop by... Current Tank Info: 350G AGE Hybrid reef tank. 500G+ total water volume. Three sumps for filtration. Barracuda Gold return and Hammerhead Gold closed loop pumps. DIY T5 light system on rails. MP40W x3 to supplement closed loop. 130G Water management system.

07/26/2009, 10:27 PM	#6
PowermanKW Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,083	Appriciate the input.

07/26/2009, 10:29 PM	#7
PowermanKW Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,083	Maily Montis, couple of rics, brains, candy canes, favias, and a Acan and Galaxia. Some zoas and pipe organ. Nothing crazy. I also though about seeing if I could get away fans only. Maybe I will give it a shot this week.

07/26/2009, 11:22 PM	#10
Poeticlydead Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 414	If you are going to buy a pump anyway get a smaller pump something closer to the mag 7s rating in a quiet one or Eheim to run the return and see if the chiller is even needed. If it is the mag 9 should handle the chiller though you may need to throttle it some or keep the 9 buy a pump for the chiller. __________________ No, I can't spell and no I don't care how it is spelled. Current Tank Info: 90gal reef tank, 40g FOWLR, couple of nanos

07/27/2009, 07:33 AM	#12
PowermanKW Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,083	Well a 1260 says it will do 460 gph at3'. So a little over 400 gph at 4'. I don't think that will be enough for my sump and fuge.

07/27/2009, 08:17 AM	#13
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	That is plenty of flow. It will be a bit less than the Mag9, but not as much as you think. 3 - 5x display size is generally what is recommended. 270 - 450 GPH for a 90G. __________________ - Scott

07/27/2009, 09:02 AM	#14
PowermanKW Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,083	I keep seeing that rate. Maybe. I need to see who carries them here in town. I might give it a shot. I was thinking I could keep my 9.5 around and run it in the winter.

07/27/2009, 11:44 AM	#15
DarG Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,515	Maybe I missed something but why not just put the chiller in line with the return pump and forget the second pump all together. Im not sure why you are using a second pump to pull from the sump to the chiller and back to the sump. But again, maybe I missed something. So ... return pump from sump, through chiller, to tank.

07/27/2009, 03:26 PM	#18
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I like the idea of just the 1260 as the return. You will lose some heat from the change from the 9.5 and the 7. You were not bad at 82 anyway. If that drops you a couple of degrees, you are in great shape. My goal if I were in your situation would be to get rid of the need for the chiller. __________________ - Scott Last edited by sjm817; 07/27/2009 at 03:33 PM.

07/27/2009, 08:04 PM	#20
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	If you get the 1260 and decide that you want more flow, you can convert it to a 1262 for cheap. You only need to replace the intake volute. __________________ - Scott

07/27/2009, 08:31 PM	#22
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	A 1260 can be converted to a 1262 and vice verse. To convert a 1260 to a 1262 you need a 7443670 $9.20. http://eheimparts.com/client/product.aspx?type=1262 __________________ - Scott

07/27/2009, 08:42 PM	#23
PowermanKW Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,083	Done deal. I'll see If my LFS has one.

08/02/2009, 01:53 PM	#24
Poeticlydead Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 414	Good call and now you have an extra mag 9 incase of emergency the 1260 is rated at 400 in your application which is enough for sump. Added benifit you reduce heat transfer to the tank from the 9.5 and with a fan should be able to keep the system at 79 degrees based on the information you have given. Let us know how it works for you. __________________ No, I can't spell and no I don't care how it is spelled. Current Tank Info: 90gal reef tank, 40g FOWLR, couple of nanos

08/02/2009, 09:16 PM	#25
PowermanKW Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,083	I chickened out. I got the 1262. Same motor block but a reduced suction port. To me I figured I could just throttle it back which I did. I did not save me an appreciable amount of heat over my 9.5 In fact I was surprised it isn't any more quieter than my 9.5. I will say it pumps more because I had to close my discharge valve more just to get it to the same place. So this week I'm going to get a clip on fan and put it on my sump and see if it will make the difference. If not, I will tee off to my chiller and control it with my AC Jr. I'm getting a bigger skimmer too so keeping the same amount of sump flow will not be bad. My skimmer will be processing much more water.