all i wanted was a pepsi, just one pepsi, and she wouldn't give it to me!

[Reverend Reefer]

Originally posted by Ross.C
Who are you using in TO? I live here as well and know of a fair number of the retailers here and even know some of the staff personally.


HornetMech242 I will agree with you on the Labatts... as for the Leafs... thems fighting words
Although you have to tell me how an American knows Canuck beer

1. NAFB never had any luck with any fish from there, corals are great though!
2. BA scarb
3. BA miss
4. Menag best luck here, my powder brown tang came from here, he QTs the fish b4 selling, but it eventually died after 2 months in DT
5. AquaK all the fish i've gotten here have ich once i place in QT, even smaller fish like black ocellaris and fairy wrasse, they got over the ich but then died

if u know of any other let me know!! (except RRaft, i won't go there, the people are kinda sketchy with pricing and are kinda unapproachable)

[Reverend Reefer]

Originally posted by seapug
Even juveniles of some fish need a little more room than you might think. Stress is a big killer.

Fish are generally easy when provided when their basic space and territory needs are met. Without that, no amount of good water quality or feeding can save them. 81 degrees should not be a problem.

hi seapug. i think maybe you're right. taken all the data together, seems like the only factor i haven't considered is the swimming space.

1. water is perfect
- two independent tests (mine and LFS)
- plenty of O2, open canopy, aeration
- temp is fine

2. other indicators
- smaller fish are fine
- corals are fine

3. no predators
- other fish would be dead
- no clicking sounds at night
- shrimps fine
- snails fine

4. livestock carriers
- obtained from different LFS
- at least 4 independent location

5. QT practices
- maybe my QT practice is a little short but
- the fish seem fine in QT, eating and disease free
- fish die in DT not QT

-> only thing is, my QT is tiny, and yet they don't die in QT, they die in DT, is it maybe possible they are getting stressed in QT from it being so small and then die in DT after being stressed from QT?

this theory is unlikely though, because i only started QT practices after murdering 3 fish and decided QT was the solution, which it wasn't

my QT has a seeded sponge filter, which according to RC is all you need...

ok, y'all convinced me, but seapug's definitely the post i trust, maybe its the stress of having a small tank that eventually kills em.

i will try one last time with a yellow tang and then give it up. unless someone else has a fish i could try that is larger than this ocellaris??? any suggestions? it would have to be reef-safe as i have coral, and i guess robust enuff that they won't go suicidal on me.

I WENT TO YOUR SCHOOLS, I WENT TO YOUR CHURCHES, I WENT TO YOUR INSTITUTIONAL LEARNING FACILITIES.....

[Ross.C]

I know John from NAFB and agree about the coral selection. Livestock is always iffy as to what he has in stock.

I know Harold at Menagerie well and yes EVERYTHING is QT'd for 2 weeks before sale. I trust anything out of his store.

Don't get me started on BA's

AquaK don't know too well, but haven't heard anybody rave about them.

I won't comment on RR

There is a place called Sea U Marine and his livestock is great. Never had an issue with anything from his store. He will even bring in special orders (got a great Yasha Hashe Goby and Japanese Pistol shrimp pairing) .

Another store is Under the C, you will have to Google them to get their address. Been there looks good, but hav no experience with his livestock.

Hope this bit helps

[otrlynn]

I am wondering whether the issue is adding "big fish". If I understand correctly, at least one coral beauty died, and that isn't a big fish. Have you recently added any new "small fish" and had them live? Is it possible that you have ich or some other parasite/disease in your tank, to which your current fish have developed some immunity?

[Elysia]

I want to stress again that Coral Beauties can come from different areas, some of which are known to use drugs to catch fish. So the death of the Coral Beauty may have been unrelated to your tank.

[Poeticlydead]

Originally posted by Reverend Reefer
the tank is a weird shape. its long and tall. the display is 4 feet long.

Could you list the dimensions of your tank please because your wife maybe right if it is 4 foot long it is more likely a 75 gallon and 75 is considered enough space for a number of tangs.

Some people here will argue about tangs in any size tank so here are the standard rules of thumb http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=739380

When adding tangs even if algae for grazing is present in the tank I would have a piece of a green algae sheet in a food clip about mid way down the tank height for them to easily graze on.
(I feed Seaweed Select Green Marine Algae to mine.)

I deffinately agree on quarantin for any tang before adding to the DT but as for aclimating to the DT from the QT that shouldn't be needed other then to adjust for DT temp/salinty if you keep the QT at different parameters. We use DT water in our QT and perfrom daily water changes (remove water from QT fill with water from DT then put new saltwater in the DT.) This way the time my fish spend in QT prepares them for the water conditions in my DT.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some times I try to do things and it just doesn't work out the way I want it to and I get real frustrated.
I try hard to do it and I take my time and it just doesn't work out the way I want it to.

[ILoveReefer]

Originally posted by Ross.C
Who are you using in TO? I live here as well and know of a fair number of the retailers here and even know some of the staff personally.


HornetMech242 I will agree with you on the Labatts... as for the Leafs... thems fighting words
Although you have to tell me how an American knows Canuck beer

Labatts is available in most, if not all, states now. It makes up probably half the beer sales in the Buffalo area. It rocks

Go Sabres!!!!

[Ross.C]

Originally posted by ILoveReefer
Labatts is available in most, if not all, states now. It makes up probably half the beer sales in the Buffalo area. It rocks

Go Sabres!!!!

Please tell me it is the 5% alcohol content and not the standard US content of about 3%

[ILoveReefer]

Originally posted by Ross.C
Please tell me it is the 5% alcohol content and not the standard US content of about 3%

Labatt Blue US has 4.7% alcohol content. US content isn't as low as you think. Sam Adams Boston lager 4.8%, Sam Adams Octoberfest 5.7, and Michelob's Shock Top 5.2%. These are the ones in my fridge. Except for the Shock Top which is in front of me right now.

[Ross.C]

The stuff I used to get in Knoxville, TN was water as far as I am concerned.

My apologies to the OP for derailing the thread. Let me know how it goes for you at the other two stores I mentioned.

[ILoveReefer]

Sorry OP for going way off topic.

I'm really not sure what the issue at hand is. Tangs are generally shy, so stress wouldn't be impossible. But for the others I don't know. Coral Beauty's aren't really all that demanding or big.

All I really can say is wait a few months before adding any other fish. During this time I would keep a close eye on water parameters and the other tank inhabitants.

One question I do have for you though is how aggressive is the clown and the chromis to the new tank mates?

[flameangel9]

Try this... Do a 25% water change. Have your water tested.
If its good then buy a healthy fish. One thats been in the store a couple of weeks. Don't DIP OR QUARENTEEN. This only stresses the poop out of fish. In theory this works in reality for the most part a disaster. Quarenteen tanks tend to be too small and its additional undue stress. You have ick in your tank already. We all do. Healthy fish with proper diet, no bullies, and water conditions don't get ick.Put then in the display after acclimating ph temp and salinity. Put them in the tank with lights off. Then enjoy!!!
In seven months I've never dipped or quarenteened anything.
Zero losses with this method and I have 12 fish. Three of which
are tangs. Then regular WEEKLY small water changes. For you I would recommend 7-8 gal.
This is just my opinion but its working for me.

[Reverend Reefer]

wow, i love RC! everyone here is really helpful and very supportive. every time my death toll rises i just wanna pack it in but you guys are real enablers eh? way to enable my addition! haha. or maybe its just a way to reinforce your addictions by making sure yer not the only ones!!!

ok, to summarize slightly what im trying to consume:

Ross.C - yes. i agree with you completely. i do think the longest lasting "larger" fish i've had came from harold. it was a juvenile powder brown tang that he ordered for me, QT'd for me, and i just dropped him into the DT after dripping him. this tang lasted 4 months but then died after the black out that affected the west end. i will definitely check out those other places you mentioned but maybe i'll try from him again, as the black out was most likely the cause of his death.

Poeticlydead - i just measured the tank and used a volume calculator, says its 246 litres, which is supposedly 65 US gallons, not sure what other kinds of gallons there are but i assume we all use the US gallons. didn't know there was a currency on it, but if there was, 65 US gallons are probably 3 Canadian gallons with the exchange rate these days!! either way, wifey was wrongy. i do have some hair algae for grazing and i also have some of that purple seaweed ala julian sprung that i clipped on daily.

ILoveReefer - no worries about the beer and hockey talk, i am canadian after all. last time i was in texas i could drink a 2-4 and i swear it was like water man! i thought the heat was evaporating all the booze in the booze but then someone told me there's less alchohol in US beer.

Elysia - didn't know that about coral beauties. i'll have to read up on that. how do they use drugs to catch the fish? im imagining some drug peddlers enticing the fish to get hooked (old man joke) on crack or something...

otrlynn - i guess that's a possibility, although i doubt its ich. the fish that die don't appear to have the ich spots, however, there could be some parasite/disease that they carry which they've somehow developed immunity to. i guess that's the superfish theory but there's little i can do about that now, let alone have the ability to test this hypothesis.

-----------------------

OK. so this is what i think i will try after all the advice.

1. patience
2. i did a water change right after i fished the body from the twisted burning wreck (sorry pee wee's big adventure!)
3. wait a couple weeks and make sure my water is all good
4. order a hearty yellow tang from harold, who QT's his fish
5. i will then acclimate ph temp salinity like flameangel suggests and give this method a try

thanks again for the advice everyone. i guess the big decision is whether i should QT for longer or not QT at all. both sides have valid points but since i've tried QT'ing (albeit for a shorter period than the 6 weeks some people recommend), i'm going to let the LFS do the QT and just acclimate. this change in methodology has one big negative, if harold doesn't QT properly, i could risk infecting all my other fish. of course, if otrlynn is correct, maybe my superfish won't get sick anyways. i was conviced of the QT after reading the reefkeeping article and that's why i set one up. but now i'm reconsidering the stress issue. my QT tank is tiny. i can see how that could stress them.

i'll try this with a yellow tang unless anyone else has a better idea. the powder brown tang (acanthurus japonicus) was beautiful and i would really prefer this one but seems like the yellow tang might be more robust.

[Ross.C]

Just a quick answer to the drug question. The people that catch the fish used to used cyanide to stun the fish and make them easy prey for netting. This practice is now discouraged, however there are some that supposedly still use this practice.

A great resource is the Reefkeeping magazine that is put out monthly, In this months issue there is a Reefkeeping 101 article. A good read for the novice and experienced reefer alike. This is a online mag that is also associated with this site. All the historical editions are also on the site.

[Elysia]

Coral Beauty (from Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes by Scott Michael) -- Centropyge bispinosus "Most individuals tend to be quite hardy, and it is extremely attractive, readily available, and inexpensive. However, there is considerable individual variability when it comes to hardiness, based in part on where the fish was collected. "