The Reef Central Corner Club Thread

[Husky_1]

Oh, yeah there is a diatom outbreak as well. This was fully expected since I started with very little live rock, and brand new unrinsed sand.

Test results just to ensure it was not because of high nutrients;
Nitrate came in at 2ppm
P04 - .02ppm
Alk - 6.1 DKH (Low)
Calc - 330
SG - 1.025

I was actually surprised to see that my Alk and Calc were low. Using NSW I did not expect my tank to have that much uptake yet. As a result, I put my 2part doser back online. I will test again in a few days to see how the levels are and adjust from there.


Also, I noticed a substantial decrease in the amount of diatoms when I got home yesterday. I am not sure if they are subsiding or if its a result of me changing out my Phosban and carbon. Time will tell, but I did notice coralline growth on my existing live rock, and on some of the base rock (Very small amounts)

[nomorenames]

Originally posted by reefscape15
Nice frags Jesse! I'm glad that you're getting your tank a little filled up again. Hopefully this time though, we won't have to look at a purple tank with a crooked frag rack on top of the rocks!!!! I see Orange Monti Cap, Green Birdsnest, and the Brown/Green Polyp Encrusting Monti. Is the center coral another Encrusting Monti? Also is the small pink one a Pink Birdsnest? Just curious. and YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that you are filling up that tank finally! I remember when I first got on RC I saw the pic of your acryllic rod supports and thought to myself, "Wow......This guys tank is gonna be NICE!" Glad you got some stuff in there.

nomorenames - I'm thinking if your up to it, you could move the rocks a few inches away from the back glass, and try to spread them out a bit more. I just re-arranged my tank and moving the rocks off the glass has really made everything seem so much healthier. I have much better flow throughout the tank, and it gives a bunch of nice little ledges on the back of the rockwork to place little things here and there. Just a few suggestions. Not meant to offend, but it took me a while to change my rockwork up, and i'm so glad I did. Also what's your lighting/filtration/flow in the tank now?

Mdavis735 - Nice tank! A few questions for you....Flow/lighting/filtration? Just curious. And are the two mag-floats holding up that frag rack? It looks like it in the pic.

no offence taken the rocks are off the glass 2" or so and iam always up for change somone else suggested i should take 1/2 the rock out that kinda scares me although it would make it easier to scape the lights are 1 250MH 14k 2 65PC 460nm actinic the filter is just a berlin style with a sock, euroreef rs80 and phosban for GAC & GFO flow is a mag 9.5(maxGPH is 950 so i guess its running 850 or so) and 1 korlina nano and 1 modded maxi 900

[reefscape15]

Husky - Awesome scaping! I love the triple island thing you have going on, and the shelf-like top structures will give you TONS of room for some nice frags when the time comes. Is the tank a used one, or did you buy it new? The reason I ask is there seems to be a lot of coralline on the glass already, and I would be very shocked if you got that amount of growth in just one month. (Although, Jesse can be known to prove people wrong ).

nomorenames - I know what you mean in being a little nervous about taking half your rock out! If you do though, you will need to do it very slowly. Just one small piece of rock at a time, with 1-2 weeks between removals. This will give your bacteria colonization time to rebuild it's populations after removal of some rock. I didn't end removing any of my rock, but just found a way to re-arrange it so it didn't look like as much rock in there. I was hesitant at first, but now I am so happy that I took Boret's advice! You may also want to up your flow a little bit. The Korallia nano's really put out barely anything for flow. It says 295gph or whatever it's rated, but if you put your hand even 6" away from one, you can't hardly tell that it's running. I'd suggest a Korallia 3 or 4, and try to position your K-nano so it's moving a little water behind the rocks. I took an older Mini-Jet that pushes 160gph so that it moves some water behind my rocks, but I'm going to get another one for the other side of the rock structure as well. I have a Korallia-1 and 3 now, but I'm adding another K-3 soon. High flow will help keep all the wastes suspended in the water column, and easier directed to your skimmer for removal. It took me a long time (about a year) to finally get my tank pretty much set the way I want it. I was constantly moving the rocks around, and switching spots with the frags. Now that I've been leaving it alone, it has become much more stable, and things are doing great! Growth is noticeably better, and it just looks cleaner and healthier overall. Please ask any questions you have, because the guys here have helped me transform my semi-surviving frag tank into what will become a healthy, mature reef tank.

[nomorenames]

I do plan on taking the nano and placing it so it flows behind the rocks and using another modded maxi900, also I did take a large piece of rock out (limestone) like two weeks and replaced it with some base rock I had, these are the white rocks in the photo I thought the limestone was leaching phosphate there are a few rocks i would like to take out do you know how to take off rics from a rock,a few small pieces i might put in the sump
thanks for the help

[reefscape15]

If you can get a very thin razor you might be able to scrape them off. If that wont work, you can frag them and just leave base on the rocks and they'll end up in your sump. To frag, try to cut the ric in 4ths, with a small piece of mouth on each quarter. Then take a bowl with some gravel/rubble rock and drop the frags in. They will attach to the smaller pieces of rock and you will end up with a few fresh frags

[nomorenames]

Ill try it tomorrow thanks

[reefscape15]

Sure thing. I've never personally tried it, but I've heard much success doing it this way. you may want to check on the Collorimorphs forums for another solution.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...s=&forumid=202

[boret]

Picture update



I've been dosing Vodka for the last 6 days. I am at 1.3ml per day.
I have lowered Nitrate to 5-10 (I really can't tell between the 2!!). Let's say I am at 10. From 20 a week ago. So far so good. Water seems the same clarity and corals look about the same. But my sunset monti is loosing tissue. This is the only problem I have with a monti as the others are doing great. You can see the grey spots in the picture, it is the round green polyp coral to the left of the pink anthia. It could also be that the stylo to its left is extending its polyps and stinging it.

Photography

I have managed to borrow two cameras, a Nikon D40 with the regular 18-55mm lens (no VR) and a Sony Alpha 350 with 2 lenses (18-70mm ad 55-200mm). I still can not get a sharp image with either one!! I think that it just might be impossible in my tank with the round glass or that I just don't have it in me to get a decent picture. I am using a tripod, timer shooting, Live View, View Finder, all possible combinations.... it just doesn't happen. This is very frustrating. I am probably too dumb for a DSLR. Maybe I should consider a point and shoot with a better lens.

It might be the lenses, and I need a special macro one, or a wider angle, I don't know.... I have about $1,500 worth of DSLR equipment and I can't get a single sharp picture of my tank. At least I have not spent any money yet...

[Husky_1]

Reefscape,
Thanks for aquascaping compliments. The tank is used' but I bought it new 2 years ago. I did not take the coralline off the sides because I was hoping I could get the benefit of returning some of the calc back to the system. I still have to order another razor for my easy blade, so once that is in, it will be clean again.

Boret,
Now that you are seeing nitrates decrease, are you going to cut your dosage in 1/2 and use that as your normal amount? I was full zeo at one point, but am going with vodka this time around and think I remember reading that once you see the nitrate decline start happening you should do this.

I just finished my bottle of start2, so my Vodka/Vinegar (90/10)dosing started last night. I went straight to 1.5ml since that is what I was doing with the start2. I know that this is high to start off with, but since i have already been adding a carbon source, I was not too worried. The good news is, I did not seen any sign of a bacteria bloom this morning.

Being that my tank was just re-setup, with mostly dead rocks, I know my bacteria colonies are not quite up to speed yet. so I am also dosing bacteria to help jump start them.

[Husky_1]

Boret,
one more thing...The photography thing is not you, its the glass on the tank. I have a Nikon d40 and have the same issues that you have. When I had a 10g nano up, the pictures were about 100x better.

The answer to this, for me, will be to get one of those underwater cameras digital cameras.

[boret]

I tried the underwater camera. As a matter of fact I have the Olympus 1050w which by the way, I am sending to Olympus because it stop working. I followed the procedures and cleaned it with fresh water after using it in the tank. The problem with the underwater camera is the difficulty rendering the colors correctly, everything comes out blue because of the 20k light spectrum and the White Balance is very limited. There is a new Canon underwater camera that from the reviews seems a much better one than the Olympus, but I just don't want to waste any more money. This afternoon I am going to a club member's house and he is going to show me how he takes pictures. I will have to challenge him to take those same pics in my round tank . I will keep you guys posted, I am sure there is a Camera, lens, combo out there that will do it for me. I just don't want to spend 2-3 grand on it, might as well get a 220 tank with that money!

[nomorenames]

I took one large rock out and put a smaller one in my sump look any better?
[IMG][/IMG]

[boret]

This is what I am talking about nomorenames


I just photoshoped the rocks that in my opinion you should take out.

[boret]

Here Side by Side to give you a better idea.

I would probably use some of the rocks you have on top and use those instead of the base ones. They seem to have more holes (more personality) and more places to glue corals.

[nomorenames]

thats pretty cool how you did that.. 1 problem I have is some of the coarls I have are on giant rocks poor placement on my part
thanx for the input

[boret]

I don't see any huge colonies so I am pretty sure you can remove them and place them in a different place.

[nomorenames]

its not the colonies as much as the size of the rock they are attached to

[boret]

Yeah, my previous post wasn't very clear.

It looks like you don't have a lot of corals in there. You can remove the corals from the rocks and then re-aquascape. Just leave in the display tank the nicest pieces of rock and make it at least half of the amount of rock you have right now, that way you get plenty of room for coral growth. The rest of the live rock put it in the sump. If some of the rocks don't fit in your sump just sell them. You can easily get $3-4 per lb of Live Rock.

We all put too much rock at the beginning because we just don't know better. Without a ton of rocks it looks "empty" but trust me, after a while you will appreciate having the room for the corals.

Also, with more space water flow won't be that much of an issue (you will need less power heads to move the water), and with more and better flow you will get less dead zones, less nuisance algae and overall better water quality. It will take you from 6 to 12 months to get decent size corals if you start with 1-2" frags. That is if you are keeping up with Calcium demand and feeding appropriately. So be patient.

Another thing to keep in mind is the placement of the corals. This is kind of tough at the beginning as you learn about different growth rates and patterns. But just to give you a couple of examples:

If you place an Orange Monti cap high in the tank it will grow flat and shade everything underneath. You want to place it low so it grows up like in this image:



However, a slower growing Blue Tortuosa, you might want to keep higher up. This is a good example of a piece placed on the top and sideways to get a more natural growth pattern.



You should use superglue gel (I use BSI IC-Gel available at hobby shops or online). It makes it very easy to attach corals to all kinds of places. You take the coral frag, remove it from the disk/cradle and put a bunch of Superglue at the base. Holding it carefully with your hands you press it against a crevice in the rock and wait about 10-15 seconds until the glue takes hold. Sometimes you might need to giggle it a bit for the glue to stick to the rock.

If you have a 1-2" Green Bali Slimer and you glue it vertical it will grow up all the way to the top but it won't branch out as much. So it will be something like this image:



Now, if you place the same coral sideways on the rock it will grow out and up. I couldn't find a good example picture but I found this one that gives you an idea of how fast the Green Bali Slimer grows compared to the blue tortuosa behind it or even the pink bird's nest to the right (which grows more compact):



You can get very creative. Mix it up a little. I have seen people that glue 3 different color Montiporas to get some cool growth. Like this one:



Milliporas are pretty aggressive (so is the frogspawn you have in there) and will sting other corals in its proximity, so you want those away from a more delicate acropora. But many times several millis will coexist. You can see in this image how this Millipora grows wider. If you place it too high up it won't allow any light underneath:



So keep in mind the growth patterns before you place corals.

Shaded areas are not that problematic though, sometimes you might want to keep some corals such as sun corals or Blue Chalices that do better under shade than direct light.

One advantage with the Superglue gel is that it is fairly easy to remove a frag that has been glued with it. So if a coral frag is not happy in whatever location (not enough light or flow, etc...) you can snap it out and place it elsewhere. Once the frag grows and encrusts itself in the rock you wont be able to remove it though, but you can cut a few branches.

If you have a large rock with a coral encrusted that you really like, like a encrusting montipora,



you can take the whole rock out and chisel it. Better yet, you can drill a few small holes around the coral, to make sure that the piece of rock will break the way you want.

I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I have spent a lot of time looking at other setups. It is very interesting to see the way people that have been a long time in this hobby place the corals. So I try to replicate their success in my tank.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[reefscape15]

Very informative Boret! My computer is too slow, so I can't see every pic of nomorenames tank that you messed with, but I would suggest taking out the 2 center/upper rocks and re-arranging everything. I had to re-scape my tank about a month ago, and it was kind of scary having to keep all my frags in buckets for so long. I pretty much took out all the small pieces of rock, and then the meduim sized pieces, and then all the larger pieces that I could until I had only 2 or 3 larger rocks left in the tank. Taking the rock out in this order and placing them into the bucket in this order will also help when you put the rocks back in. The larger, more base type rocks will be on the top of the bucket, the medium pieces will be the next ones available once the large ones are gone, and then once the meduim rocks are placed, you are left with the smaller "dress-up" sized pieces. I had to keep about 3 buckets for corals and frags just to keep them from sitting on top of each other, and another two buckets for rock. The whole re-scape of the base rocks took me about 2 hours. Then the next night it was about another 2 or 3 hours just getting the smaller pieces where I wanted them, and finish tweaking everything. I spent about an hour or two every other night for about 2 weeks just messing with things until I was happy with what I had. Now that it's all said and done, I'm completely satisfied with my tank. I've never seen it look so good, and now I have a lot more room for frags!

Here's the latest updates that I have -

This is my first scaping attempt:


This is the newest pic I have, but I ended up taking the larger rock on the top and moving it to the back of the tank, and the smaller chunk on the top right and moving that also, but you get the idea of what the change looks like:



I'll try to get some updated pics soon!

[reefscape15]

BTW, all the frags are pretty much off the sandbed now, and the pile of rubble rock on the left front in the bottom pic is moved around also. I'll get pics soon

[Hookup]

Nicely written Boret... photos and all.. very good ideas that are not commonly shared (not secrets, but just stuff that some people know and others do not I guess).

The other thing I'd ad is frag your stuff to force new heads to grow... easily done with a pair of wire-cutters, and on fast growing stuff like Staghorn and Birdnest, or monti's, etc, you can get some interesting growth happening....

In my experience, plancing a coral on it's side creates some amazing growth, but it messes up the corals' head... they get all pee-pee'd wonding how the heck they ended up on their sides... and stop growing for a while (weeks to months is normal).. then all of the sudden they get over themselves, and explode out in growth...

I took my birdsnest when it grew it self out of the spot I put it, and just tumbled it sideways into a new spot.. after 1month it's produced a tonne of new growth spots... in 3-6months I'll tumble it again, just cause I'm curious what'll happen it i keep tossing it around.. (and I'm kind of evil that way)

[boret]

That is a good point Hookup I will try it with my Bali Slimer to see how it grows. It is definitely interesting to see how corals will grow.
As time passes by and my corals grow I learn a bit more about placement and growth. I know that if I was to setup another tank I will do a few things differently. I still think the best piece of advice I can give you guys is to look at other tanks, in person if possible. Most areas have local marine clubs, and people willing to give you a tour of their setup. It makes a big difference when you can actually see a mature tank. The most shocking thing for me was the fact that you couldn't even see the rocks!

Reefscape15 I can't wait to see the new pictures! I am still messing around with a couple of DSLR cameras I borrowed. I am getting slightly better at taking pictures, at least they look at bit better. I will post some soon.

[boret]

Updated picture:
Still playing around with different apertures to find the proper DOF for my tank but slowly improving the quality of the pics.

[LV74-04]

This is a great thread.

We are picking up a 54 gal corner tomorrow
Gonna take it slow this time .... Thinking i might have to build my own sump to get what i want.
The guy who set up our big tank wanted no part of a corner .... His loss

Getting a lot of good ideas ... Thanks

[reefscape15]

Originally posted by LV74-04
This is a great thread.

The guy who set up our big tank wanted no part of a corner .... His loss

You will soon find out why! HAHA!!! Kidding of course. But you will come to find that a corner tank requires a lot more fooling around with to get it how you want it. Lighting, flow, sump, canopy, etc. all take much more thought and planning than a standard shaped tank. After owning one for a while though, I'll probably never own a standard rectangle tank. I love the different look of my tank, and IMO it's worth the extra hassle. Enjoy the new purchase!