Calcium Off The Chart.....?

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 06:03 PM

Hey diryvegas here. Ive been using coralife seasalts and so far so good. i usually add every other week some calcium but only a maintenance calcium as directed, directions say 2 times each week, i only add once every other week.I dont have much corals just a few.

well today i tested my calcium it was off the charts at 640, I dont know how to bring it down. Is the water change the only thing i can do to bring it down to 400-450..?

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks
dv

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 06:24 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ help please

Agu · 02/08/2006, 06:44 PM

Better odds of getting an answer here

.........

I'd suspect the accuracy of the test , or an error in testing.

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 06:53 PM

I dont know why you moved the thread. I just need to know if I should do a water change or not and whats the best way to bring down the calcium, nothing to do with chemistry IMO. Thanks for helping though.
dv

DrBDC · 02/08/2006, 07:23 PM

Test your fresh saltwater made for water changes. When I used Coralife for awhile it ran 480-520 on it's own. The only way to bring it down would be with a number of decent sized water changes. That's what I'd do at least to 500ish and then let it drop on it's own and not add any more.

steve the plumb · 02/08/2006, 07:24 PM

You can do a water change but I would just leave it.The calcium will deplete on its own.Nothing is going to die at that level.I run mine between 460 -500 ppm.

davebehlen · 02/08/2006, 07:43 PM

Same thing happened to me with CoralLife salt. Water changes and time is fixing it.

DrBDC · 02/08/2006, 07:47 PM

Once your levels are where you want them, always dose an equal amount of a 2 part supplement unless you want one or the other of ca/alk to become out of balance over time. If you don't use a balanced 2 part type supplement then a little math is required to figure out the balance but it will save you imbalances with the dosing anyway.

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 07:49 PM

yeah i just tested it again to double check, making sure the test is correct and yes it is exactly 640, taking exactly 32 drops to the end color on the chart (each drop is = 20). 20x32=640.

Everything looks great just I read that calcium levels above 500 is useless to to the enviornment because after 500 somthing happens to the calcium at this strength cause the calciums to strong causing the corals and everything that thrives on calcium to not use it anymore. Does this sound right, or make sense.?

I would like to maintain around 420, like all the tank of the months, those tanks are nice.

What would be the ratio of water change in order to get the calcium below 500.? maybee 1/3 or 1/2..?

Thanks guys

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrBDC
Once your levels are where you want them, always dose an equal amount of a 2 part supplement unless you want one or the other of ca/alk to become out of balance over time. If you don't use a balanced 2 part type supplement then a little math is required to figure out the balance but it will save you imbalances with the dosing anyway.

What are you refering to by "balanced 2 part supplement".

can you post a link to this supplement for me please.?

dv

Gobie · 02/08/2006, 08:08 PM

Running calcium over 500 is hard on your equipment but doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have a negative affect on your corals. I would stop adding calcium, the calcium will eventually decline. How is your KH?

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 08:17 PM

kh last time i checked was 12dkh, i think.

Gobie · 02/08/2006, 08:25 PM

ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s good if you are sure it was 12dkh, I am wondering why your system isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t using up the calcium but you say you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have many corals, are they hard corals? In a system with few corals you wonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t need to supplement calcium as much as you think. I had a tank that I never dosed calcium and it tested at 350 it was a fowlr.

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 08:31 PM

Thanks for your help here gobie. i just now tested the dkh and ph

dkh=10 exactly so in the past few days its droped 2dkh.
ph=7.6 exaclty I have a vary hard time keeping this up...??

calcium is still 640

OOoo and I keep a bunch of LR, 1 lps (pugoda), and bunch of various shroomies.. various algaes also and mangroves.

dv

Gobie · 02/08/2006, 08:35 PM

Try using Seachem Reef Builder and don't add any more calcium.
This should balance out your system.

Drewcipher · 02/08/2006, 08:38 PM

Don't believe the directions on dosing anything. They have no idea what the demands of the system are. Only add stuff when you test and it is lower than you desire.

Sorry, believe the dosage, but not the frequency. You don't want to add too much too fast.

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 08:40 PM

Yes I use that to try and raise the PH but it doesnt seem to help much cause it raises the dkh also to about 14 somtimes and might if im lucky bring the PH to 8 ,and i was thinking this is too high for dkh.

what is the highest for dkh, the bottle say 14... what do you suggest.?

I was thining that the high levels of calcium are depleating my ph level. Is this possible, and could this be my case you think.?

dv

Drewcipher · 02/08/2006, 08:42 PM

I have this same problem. dkh stays at 12-15 while my pH is 7.7-8.0. Calcium is usually 400. Never been able to fix this, but as it has been stable for 2 years I haven't much cared. This is in my 20g hex tank.

Gobie · 02/08/2006, 08:46 PM

14 dkh is also ok but closer to 12dkh is ideal.

Gobie · 02/08/2006, 08:54 PM

Are you adding kalkwasser for calcium?

dirtyvegas · 02/08/2006, 09:01 PM

no, no kalkwasser. Just seachem liquid calcium. ill try adding more reef buffer to raise both dkh and PH. Should I use kalkwasser.?
dv

Gobie · 02/08/2006, 09:08 PM

NO Kalk untill you get your calcium down I was asking because kalk will help keep your ph up. but with your ca so high you can't use it yet.

Low alkalinity will cause low ph. Excess CO2 will also cause it. Too many fish or high CO2 in the surrounding air, or not enough aeration. Do you have a skimmer?

DrBDC · 02/08/2006, 09:09 PM

Don't add anymore alkalinity products if your dKh is already 10+.

Here is an article on the DIY 2 part from Randy:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

Here is an article on low pH causes and cures:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

Right now you need nothing but fresh saltwater changes and time. Just keep an eye on the alkalinity while you are waiting to get the ca down. It will only move down 18-20 for every 2.8 dKh drop. NSW alk is only 7, most will keep it 8-10 and there is no benefit other than it can drop some without going under 7. Other than that there is no benefit. Keeping the ca and alk balanced requires you make sure your magnesium is at least 1280 although most will target 1350-1400.

To do it by water changes it would take a lot. Using IO at 380 and your tank at 640, 100% change would take it to 510, 200% would take it to 467, 300% would drop it to 445 and 400% would drop it to 432. Now you could break that down to 2 50% changes a week for 4 weeks or 1 50% for 8 weeks but time is really the best drop for the ca. I would probably do 25% weekly along with waiting.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/09/2006, 07:13 AM

I just need to know if I should do a water change or not and whats the best way to bring down the calcium, nothing to do with chemistry IMO

That's what the chemistry forum is for!

The only ways to reduce calcium are to do water changes with a normal to low calcium salt mix, or to maintain alkalinity with an alkalinity only supplement such as baking soda, and let the calcium decline on its own as calcium carbonate is deposited in the tank. In most cases, the latter is the best option, and it is what I would recommend.

This article guides you through the process:

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

dirtyvegas · 02/09/2006, 11:28 AM

I have 1 question about the DIY 2 part from Randy..

In the Daily suggested dosing table for example it says add: Fish-only with live rock 0.1 mL/gallon of recipe #1.

Does that mean add .1 of calcium and .1 of alkalynity.?
Or add .05 of calcium and .05 of alkalynity for total of .1mL.?

BTW that is a great read Randy thanks for all that work, im gonna give it a shot once im in the target zone..!

dv

02/08/2006, 06:44 PM	#3
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	Better odds of getting an answer here ......... I'd suspect the accuracy of the test , or an error in testing. __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

02/08/2006, 07:23 PM	#5
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	Test your fresh saltwater made for water changes. When I used Coralife for awhile it ran 480-520 on it's own. The only way to bring it down would be with a number of decent sized water changes. That's what I'd do at least to 500ish and then let it drop on it's own and not add any more. __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/08/2006, 07:43 PM	#7
davebehlen Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Pearland, TX Posts: 59	Same thing happened to me with CoralLife salt. Water changes and time is fixing it. __________________ 210 DT Current Tank Info: 210 DT, 120 Sump, Planning another two 200 DTs, 120 Q, 120 Frag

02/08/2006, 07:47 PM	#8
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	Once your levels are where you want them, always dose an equal amount of a 2 part supplement unless you want one or the other of ca/alk to become out of balance over time. If you don't use a balanced 2 part type supplement then a little math is required to figure out the balance but it will save you imbalances with the dosing anyway. __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/08/2006, 08:38 PM	#16
Drewcipher Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bailey, CO Posts: 896	Don't believe the directions on dosing anything. They have no idea what the demands of the system are. Only add stuff when you test and it is lower than you desire. Sorry, believe the dosage, but not the frequency. You don't want to add too much too fast. __________________ Drew I'm growing older but not up My metabolic rate is pleasantly stuck Let those winds of time blow over my head I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead--Jimmy Buffett Current Tank Info: 75 gallon, Red Sea Max, setting up a 180

02/08/2006, 06:03 PM	#1
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	Calcium Off The Chart.....? Hey diryvegas here. Ive been using coralife seasalts and so far so good. i usually add every other week some calcium but only a maintenance calcium as directed, directions say 2 times each week, i only add once every other week.I dont have much corals just a few. well today i tested my calcium it was off the charts at 640, I dont know how to bring it down. Is the water change the only thing i can do to bring it down to 400-450..? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks dv

02/08/2006, 06:24 PM	#2
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ help please

02/08/2006, 06:53 PM	#4
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	I dont know why you moved the thread. I just need to know if I should do a water change or not and whats the best way to bring down the calcium, nothing to do with chemistry IMO. Thanks for helping though. dv

02/08/2006, 07:24 PM	#6
steve the plumb Moved On Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 3,664	You can do a water change but I would just leave it.The calcium will deplete on its own.Nothing is going to die at that level.I run mine between 460 -500 ppm.

02/08/2006, 07:49 PM	#9
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	yeah i just tested it again to double check, making sure the test is correct and yes it is exactly 640, taking exactly 32 drops to the end color on the chart (each drop is = 20). 20x32=640. Everything looks great just I read that calcium levels above 500 is useless to to the enviornment because after 500 somthing happens to the calcium at this strength cause the calciums to strong causing the corals and everything that thrives on calcium to not use it anymore. Does this sound right, or make sense.? I would like to maintain around 420, like all the tank of the months, those tanks are nice. What would be the ratio of water change in order to get the calcium below 500.? maybee 1/3 or 1/2..? Thanks guys

02/08/2006, 08:08 PM	#11
Gobie Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 668	Running calcium over 500 is hard on your equipment but doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have a negative affect on your corals. I would stop adding calcium, the calcium will eventually decline. How is your KH?

02/08/2006, 08:17 PM	#12
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	kh last time i checked was 12dkh, i think.

02/08/2006, 08:25 PM	#13
Gobie Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 668	ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s good if you are sure it was 12dkh, I am wondering why your system isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t using up the calcium but you say you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have many corals, are they hard corals? In a system with few corals you wonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t need to supplement calcium as much as you think. I had a tank that I never dosed calcium and it tested at 350 it was a fowlr.

02/08/2006, 08:31 PM	#14
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	Thanks for your help here gobie. i just now tested the dkh and ph dkh=10 exactly so in the past few days its droped 2dkh. ph=7.6 exaclty I have a vary hard time keeping this up...?? calcium is still 640 OOoo and I keep a bunch of LR, 1 lps (pugoda), and bunch of various shroomies.. various algaes also and mangroves. dv

02/08/2006, 08:35 PM	#15
Gobie Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 668	Try using Seachem Reef Builder and don't add any more calcium. This should balance out your system.

02/08/2006, 08:40 PM	#17
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	Yes I use that to try and raise the PH but it doesnt seem to help much cause it raises the dkh also to about 14 somtimes and might if im lucky bring the PH to 8 ,and i was thinking this is too high for dkh. what is the highest for dkh, the bottle say 14... what do you suggest.? I was thining that the high levels of calcium are depleating my ph level. Is this possible, and could this be my case you think.? dv

02/08/2006, 08:42 PM	#18
Drewcipher Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bailey, CO Posts: 896	I have this same problem. dkh stays at 12-15 while my pH is 7.7-8.0. Calcium is usually 400. Never been able to fix this, but as it has been stable for 2 years I haven't much cared. This is in my 20g hex tank. __________________ Drew I'm growing older but not up My metabolic rate is pleasantly stuck Let those winds of time blow over my head I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead--Jimmy Buffett Current Tank Info: 75 gallon, Red Sea Max, setting up a 180

02/08/2006, 08:46 PM	#19
Gobie Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 668	14 dkh is also ok but closer to 12dkh is ideal.

02/08/2006, 08:54 PM	#20
Gobie Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 668	Are you adding kalkwasser for calcium?

02/08/2006, 09:01 PM	#21
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	no, no kalkwasser. Just seachem liquid calcium. ill try adding more reef buffer to raise both dkh and PH. Should I use kalkwasser.? dv

02/08/2006, 09:08 PM	#22
Gobie Awaiting Email Confirmation Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 668	NO Kalk untill you get your calcium down I was asking because kalk will help keep your ph up. but with your ca so high you can't use it yet. Low alkalinity will cause low ph. Excess CO2 will also cause it. Too many fish or high CO2 in the surrounding air, or not enough aeration. Do you have a skimmer?

02/08/2006, 09:09 PM	#23
DrBDC Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ballwin, Missouri Posts: 10,358	Don't add anymore alkalinity products if your dKh is already 10+. Here is an article on the DIY 2 part from Randy: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php Here is an article on low pH causes and cures: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm Right now you need nothing but fresh saltwater changes and time. Just keep an eye on the alkalinity while you are waiting to get the ca down. It will only move down 18-20 for every 2.8 dKh drop. NSW alk is only 7, most will keep it 8-10 and there is no benefit other than it can drop some without going under 7. Other than that there is no benefit. Keeping the ca and alk balanced requires you make sure your magnesium is at least 1280 although most will target 1350-1400. To do it by water changes it would take a lot. Using IO at 380 and your tank at 640, 100% change would take it to 510, 200% would take it to 467, 300% would drop it to 445 and 400% would drop it to 432. Now you could break that down to 2 50% changes a week for 4 weeks or 1 50% for 8 weeks but time is really the best drop for the ca. I would probably do 25% weekly along with waiting. __________________ Some drink at the fountain of knowledge, some just gargle, but most are rabid. Current Tank Info: 180g sps+75 softy/lps on one system tunze's, seio's, mjmods, aquacontroller w/add ons, 2X400 XM10000 and 3X160 vho actinic, 110g sump, 110 frag tank, Geo Beckett and other stuff

02/09/2006, 07:13 AM	#24
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I just need to know if I should do a water change or not and whats the best way to bring down the calcium, nothing to do with chemistry IMO That's what the chemistry forum is for! The only ways to reduce calcium are to do water changes with a normal to low calcium salt mix, or to maintain alkalinity with an alkalinity only supplement such as baking soda, and let the calcium decline on its own as calcium carbonate is deposited in the tank. In most cases, the latter is the best option, and it is what I would recommend. This article guides you through the process: Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/09/2006, 11:28 AM	#25
dirtyvegas Moved On Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rosa Rita Ocean Side Posts: 108	I have 1 question about the DIY 2 part from Randy.. In the Daily suggested dosing table for example it says add: Fish-only with live rock 0.1 mL/gallon of recipe #1. Does that mean add .1 of calcium and .1 of alkalynity.? Or add .05 of calcium and .05 of alkalynity for total of .1mL.? BTW that is a great read Randy thanks for all that work, im gonna give it a shot once im in the target zone..! dv