Deltec vs Octopus?

[dhnguyen]

Originally posted by clkwrk
Yeah if your shopping for value then I wouldn't shop deltec,h&s,bubble king or Rk2.

When I buy Tunze I know there is no bargin . But there is performance ,customer service, durability and quality.

Really thats what I am buying

The different with a Tunze is that we KNOW what makes them better.

[tigerarmy40]

Im not hating or bashing or flaming, just making conversation! and I do beleive that when it comes to any of the expamples made that the companies will share with you! I know people who have taken tours of the m&m factories and there is no secret room where they mix their chocolate!!! LOL, my point is that deltec no dought makes a great piece of equipment but as a consumer I would need to know Im not spending money on a name or rep as much as on something different then waht the next guy offers!


when I am selling someone a sony wega I need to be able to explain why sony is the only manufacture to offer the wega technology! I can t just say its a sony so buy it! they are reputable....I know folks the toshiba looks the same and uses alot of the same technologies but the sony is better, trust me!

[ErikS]

I know people who have taken tours of the m&m factories and there is no secret room where they mix their chocolate!!!

M&M Mars is and always has been one of the most tight fisted companies around - there's lots they don't share with the public.....what's the recipie for the candy coating again?

My wife watches a lot of FoodTV (which means I get to watch some too ) - quite often it's "we can't show you that operation" = proprietary information.

Really only point is that companies do & have the right to keep proprietary information private - we as consumers have ZERO rights to "demand" they reveal such information. We CAN choose to believe (or not) that such information is valid.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were bashing anyone - my only point was that a lot of the vitrol comes from those who get their knickers in a knot because some people feel item X is indeed worth the $$$.

The different with a Tunze is that we KNOW what makes them better

How so? As far as I know nobody has reverse engineered the electronics to see what makes them so costly. We have a general idea of what makes them so good, but no real specifics (I own them I even I don't swallow the "hand crafted by little elves in the Black Forrest" type of spiel)

Truth is I've seen great tanks that use "spit & duct tape".....I've also seen them with every high end gadget you can buy.

[tigerarmy40]

yeah I here ya! and I can agree with alot of it, theres no dought that the company has every right to keeping its secrets it just doesnt smell right when a competitor uses the "same technologies" unless otherwise proven and charges much less!

[dhnguyen]

Exactly my point Eric. We may not the exact schematic or aprts of the Tune's electronics but we KNOW it's because of the these that they're superior pumps. Otherwise anybody can make a propeller driven pump, the Maxijet-stream mod is proof of that.

My point with the Deltec skimmer is they use the SAME technology as other brands even the same brand of pumps. Now to say that your brand of pump X is better than your competitor's brand of pump X, IMO you should back that up. I'm not saying Deltec should reveal the inner working details of their design but just a general view of what was done on the pump to make it better. If it's such a secret, don't you think it would have been just as easy for a competitor to obtain a Deltec Eheim pump and open it up and find out as well? Don't you think it hasn't been done already?


D.

[tigerarmy40]

this is my final post as I dont want to sound like a complainer or like Im here to bust on anyone but I guess alll I would need to here is a general Idea of what is done to the pumps and what it is supposed to be enhancing!! instead of "you just gotta trust us"!!! maybe we have "improved or modified the impeller to actually create???" or something along those lines but a little more direct! I dont want the construction or diy plans...

[ErikS]

Ah, but there's the rub for the consumer......knowing when it's "the same thing"

Since we're on cars - a Lexus ES300 is what? A Camry in fancy clothes - is it worth the extra $$$$? To some yes, the higher level of service (I hear) is well worth the cost. Like a Volvo S-40? Mazda 3 is the same car......it goes on & on. Who makes what for whom can be vital when making a purchase.

My priorities for a skimmer were:

#1 - Set it & forget it (I've messed with enough, tired of it)
#2 - A known level of performance (want no "doubts" in the back of my mind)
#3 - Service, I want reliable & if there's a problem I want help...now!

That leads me in a direction, if my priorities were different?

For me personally I think paying extra for a specific material is, well, dumb. By & large we're talking about skimmers with Asian rim import pumps (similar reliability & performance)........pay more for a unit that's made from an un-necessary material? Not this cowboy as I have no intention of kicking it around.

Which brings us full circle - why I follow the thread. The Octopus seems like a good value & I want to see where the performance goes (in case a club member or anyone else asks).

FWIW - if the maxis can perform quietly & work reliably on a wavemaker? Good bye Tunze

[dhnguyen]

Ok back on topic.. Someone please post a photo of your Octopus skimmer in action already

[tigerarmy40]

eriks I couldnt have put it better!!!! and I agree 100%


so lets see those octos in action.....

[nikonosis]

ErikS you are full of dog poo on the m&m theory. M&m's released to the public almost everything there is to know about making m&m's and do you know why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE PATENTS! and now you may ask yourself what does a patent do or what are they? They stop people from copying your design and selling it for a proffit!


Now they don't list exactly how they are made but that isn't what I was asking for. I just wanted a picture of the modifications. I didn't want to know how they did it, I wanted to know what they did to them. There is a HUGE difference and deltec has nothing to be scared of if they are smart enough to have patents on their ideas!

HERE YA GO!
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-3/M-M-Candy.html

Here is an entire web page on how things are made.
http://www.madehow.com/

[tacocat]

You guys bring the funny. All this arguing sure makes for some really enjoyable reading.

[ErikS]

Ah.....um.......that would be called an example Still don't have the recipie...but hey, details, details.

Here, I'll help you out (from Websters) -

ex·am·ple Audio pronunciation of "example" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zmpl)
n.

1. One that is representative of a group as a whole: the squirrel, an example of a rodent; introduced each new word with examples of its use.
2. One serving as a pattern of a specific kind: set a good example by arriving on time.
3. A similar case that constitutes a model or precedent: a unique episode, without example in maritime history.
4.
1. A punishment given as a warning or deterrent.
2. One that has been given such a punishment: made an example of the offender.
5. A problem or exercise used to illustrate a principle or method.

Take some motrin & relax - it's just a skimmer

I agree, let's see the Octopus pics!

[nikonosis]

Originally posted by ErikS
Ah.....um.......that would be called an example Still don't have the recipie...but hey, details, details.

Here, I'll help you out (from Websters) -

ex·am·ple Audio pronunciation of "example" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g-zmpl)
n.

1. One that is representative of a group as a whole: the squirrel, an example of a rodent; introduced each new word with examples of its use.
2. One serving as a pattern of a specific kind: set a good example by arriving on time.
3. A similar case that constitutes a model or precedent: a unique episode, without example in maritime history.
4.
1. A punishment given as a warning or deterrent.
2. One that has been given such a punishment: made an example of the offender.
5. A problem or exercise used to illustrate a principle or method.

Take some motrin & relax - it's just a skimmer

I agree, let's see the Octopus pics!

Lets see both, lets see some octopus running and lets see a picture of the modifications done to deltec pumps.

[tigerarmy40]

at this point no matter how much we want to see the mod I dont think we are! it probably best left alone! I also think that there is a possablity that there is no mod done to the pumps used on the skimmers and there for they cant state that there is because that could cause them some trouble!!!! either way I dought yur going to get anywhere...

[nikonosis]

Originally posted by tigerarmy40
at this point no matter how much we want to see the mod I dont think we are! it probably best left alone! I also think that there is a possablity that there is no mod done to the pumps used on the skimmers and there for they cant state that there is because that could cause them some trouble!!!! either way I dought yur going to get anywhere...

if i had the money to waste i would buy one and disect it and post the pictures everywhere on earth.

[Zoom]

Originally posted by nikonosis
if i had the money to waste i would buy one and disect it and post the pictures everywhere on earth.

[Philwd]

I may be the only Deltec APF600 owner to have seen the smaller Octopus in action. I went back and spent some time really looking at it. It was skimming very wet on a live rock curing room. Big room with tons of rock. The skimmate was very watery as expected and was almost continuously running out the drain in the collection cup. Didn't stink too bad. No where near as bad as the nog on my Deltec. Could be because it is wetter and cleaned much more often. I know I equate the smell with pulling out some real nasties from the tank. Probably not a big deal but something to consider.

I looked closer at the bubbles and air injection. Definitely the air injection is lower than my Deltec. Air bubbles were 3-4X bigger on the Octopus. When I went home I dialed the Deltec to skim as wet as it could to see if that explained the bubble size but it didn't seem to matter much. I would like to have seen the Octopus skim a little dryer for a better comparison.

My final impression:

Likes:
cost
drain in collection cup!!! Doug are you reading this!
small footprint
re-circulating
quiet

Dislikes:
low air injection
neck too long
union looks clumsy
not as well constructed as top of line models
the nog doesn't stink

This cannot and does not compete with like Deltecs. However it does compete well with the mid tier skimmers like ER and ASM and I think should be considered as a good contender in that range.

[Pyrrhus]

I really have to get some pics of the skimmer in the shop to show people, maybe over the weekend. If anyone following this thread is in the phoenix area feel free to stop by About the Reef in Tempe to take some pics to post.

I'd like to see some numbers on how much air the Deltec Aquabees pull in during operation. Phil, maybe you could borrow my Dwyer and we could compare running air draw, to make a solid comparison for the masses?

I know that the RPS-2000 pulls in 13 SCFH which works out to around 370 LPH in air, which is less air than the deltecs on paper but I have it on good word (not having owned or used a Deltec myself) that the air injection and bubble size rivals that of the smaller aquabees when running.

FWIW, the last bucket of junk this skimmer collected did smell pretty bad but didnt come close to what my RK2 smells like, and the bubble size is much smaller after cleaning out the body of the skimmer.

[clkwrk]

I will bring a camera. But I am still not crazy about the skimmer .I have been waiting for it to make me go HMMMMMMMMm...But it hasn't yet. I fear I will be going with an H&S or deltec when the time comes.

[Fliger]

Skip do you guys have the RPS3000? That looks like a real bargain under $500 online.

[Pyrrhus]

We did, unfortunately we have to wait for the next container to arrive stateside before we can get more. I would really like to replace the dual Berlin XL's (I know, I know, not my choice) on the soft coral rack with a RPS-3000.

Maybe I can get the Dwyer out to the customer that bought the RPS-3000 for some numbers from that too.

[johnvu713]

Originally posted by ErikS

Actually I've seen more "haters" on the other side, ain't got the change for a high end skimmer so they deride those who do -
]

Speak for yourself...I for one can easily afford a Deltec. But why not do a little comparision before making a hasty decision. For example why buy name brand drug when you can buy generic at half the cost and is just as good.

Originally posted by nikonosis
[B]ErikS you are full of dog poo on the m&m theory.
]

Correction Erik youre full of skimmate

Originally posted by Philwd

This cannot and does not compete with like Deltecs. However it does compete well with the mid tier skimmers like ER and ASM and I think should be considered as a good contender in that range.

This is an unfair comparision. Youre applying evidence on two systems that might have different level of bioload.
I'd like to know the result if both skimmers were use on that cooking bin you mentioned. With that said I concur Deltec may be a little better skimmer but when you factor in cost i think Octo by far running circles a Deltec.

[ErikS]

Speak for yourself...I for one can easily afford a Deltec. But why not do a little comparision before making a hasty decision. For example why buy name brand drug when you can buy generic at half the cost and is just as good

The statement was a generalization, not an accusation. Invalid comparison. Generic drugs are chemical compositions - same compounds equal same drugs. Skimmers are engineered products where slight modifications to peices may result in dramatic performance differences. Active ingedients in the generic & name brand drug may be the same & make them equals but just because both skimmers have needlewheels does not make them equals.

Funniest part is most folks seem to live under the delusion that a NW skimmer is simple to build....check some other forums & learn what goes into them before you make the call that "ones as good as another".

I agree, comparison are good....but difficult of not impossible with skimmers. Even run on the same tank results have been wildly different. Me, I hear folks like Fliger, Moonpod, NAGA, etc who have hands on experince with most every skimmer on the market say that hands down H&S and/or Deltec are second only to Bubble King - I listen & believe what they say - that's my comparison.

(sorry to mention names folks, just examples)

My own experience tells me similar - I owned quite a few skimmers & I've seen a Bubble King in action - it's hands down better than a Deltec in my opinion.

What I find truly funny is that the only people who deride the purhcase of BK, H&S, or Deltecs are those that have never owned any of them. What frequently occurs is just what happened here,
Philwd gives an honest impression having seen one & owning another.....immeidately the "not fair comparison babble starts".

Seems like a good review to me, competitive with it's target market - that being ASM & ER. If they targeted H&S, Deltec, or BK then the cost of the unit would go up along with the performance.

if i had the money to waste i would buy one and disect it and post the pictures everywhere on earth.

Before you do that check some acient history around here with a guy named ReefVan & the "ReefRat"

[tacocat]

Originally posted by dhnguyen
My point with the Deltec skimmer is they use the SAME technology as other brands even the same brand of pumps. Now to say that your brand of pump X is better than your competitor's brand of pump X, IMO you should back that up. I'm not saying Deltec should reveal the inner working details of their design but just a general view of what was done on the pump to make it better. If it's such a secret, don't you think it would have been just as easy for a competitor to obtain a Deltec Eheim pump and open it up and find out as well? Don't you think it hasn't been done already?


D.

I thought we went over these points a few years ago on various threads started by people like dgasmd, invincible, etc.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=332134
I thought the intensive disucssion of various needlewheel skimmers is what indirectly led them to be imported imprted in the first place.

BTW, for those who don't know, Eheim pumps have a proven reputation of being able to outlive your dog. Hence the popularity of Eheim powered equipment.

[Zoom]

My outlive two dogs