To quarantine or not quarantine, that is the question

kj5432 · 05/15/2006, 12:57 PM

I have always quarantined all of my fish for 4-6 weeks before they go into my display tank. I like to do this so that I can run copper to kill parasites so that hopefully I won't introduce ich into my display(by the way this thread is not intended for a discussion on the presence or absence of ich in a display setup).

So I bought a Potter's Angel. I want to find out what tyes of experience, both positive and negative, people have had with the quarantine of Potter's Angels. Should I qt or not qt???

jdenton · 05/15/2006, 01:20 PM

I have tried qt many times and always seem to stress the fish out more. I know that I am supposed to qt, but my success rate at it is abysmal. Lately I have been doing a prophylactic dip, then straight into my display tank. I never did qt until a couple of years ago when I read about how important it is, the only thing is I never had a problem without qt and always do with qt.

Obviously my qt system is inadequate somehow. I use a 10 gallon, I typically only get small fish, but I think I will eventually get a larger qt system when $ allows.

Wolverine · 05/15/2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kjeanes
I have always quarantined all of my fish for 4-6 weeks before they go into my display tank. I like to do this so that I can run copper to kill parasites so that hopefully I won't introduce ich into my display(by the way this thread is not intended for a discussion on the presence or absence of ich in a display setup).

Do you run copper on all the quarantined fish, or only if you see any ich? I personally am not a fan of fulltime copper for a quarantine system. It does cause some physiologic stress on the animal. If it's not needed, why use it.

If I'm going to treat in a Q-tank, I prefer to do it with hyposalinity, if it's a type of fish that can take that (and most can).

As to the question, I've seen enough tank crashes that I think it's always better to quarantine.

Dave

kj5432 · 05/15/2006, 03:19 PM

Yes, I traditionally qt all fish with copper for 4-6 weeks before I add to the display tank to ensure the removal of parasites is guaranteed (especially tangs).

In question here is wheter or not to qt a POTTER'S ANGEL.

Wolverine · 05/15/2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolverine
As to the question, I've seen enough tank crashes that I think it's always better to quarantine.

I think that answers my viewpoints on the question itself.

The reason I asked about your methods is because the way you do it, I would consider not quarantining more than if you said you only treat them when you actually see signs of the disease. Hyposalinity would have your same "guarantee", but is safer for the fish.

Dave

kj5432 · 05/15/2006, 04:07 PM

I am not clear on what you are trying to communicate in your post. Also, when you say hyposalinity is safer...what specific gravity?

Tremelle · 05/15/2006, 05:55 PM

If you do choose to quarantine the new Potters angel, do not use copper. Copper is almost a sure death for angels.

Toddrtrex · 05/15/2006, 06:57 PM

I only have one example, I picked up my potter's about a month ago. I did not quarantine it. I put in directly in to my 6+ year old 58g. It was eating within hours of being put into the tank, plus picking at the rocks all day long. Since I did not put him into QT I can't say what would have happened.

Just my $0.02.

Toddrtrex · 05/15/2006, 06:59 PM

and here is the best picture of said potter's that I have.

Wolverine · 05/16/2006, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kjeanes
I am not clear on what you are trying to communicate in your post. Also, when you say hyposalinity is safer...what specific gravity?

I'm communicating three points. One is that I think it's better to quarantine than not quarantine. The second is that I think it's better not to medicate unless you see actual signs of disease.
The third is that if you're going to treat, I feel that hyposalinity is a better method for most fish than copper.

With hyposalinity, the specific gravity should be in the 1.011 range, and you need to make sure you're checking it with a refractometer, not a hydrometer.

Dave

kj5432 · 05/16/2006, 08:03 AM

Wolverine, a few posts up Tremelle says that copper is almost a sure death for angels. I have never heard anything like this before about angels. Any opinion on this?

Wolverine · 05/16/2006, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kjeanes
Wolverine, a few posts up Tremelle says that copper is almost a sure death for angels. I have never heard anything like this before about angels. Any opinion on this?

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that it's certain death for all angels, but they do tend to be more sensitive to copper than many other fish. Some species do seem to be hypersensitive to it, such as the lemonpeel, flame, japanese (interruptus), multicolor, and a few others; for these fishes, there as likely to survive ich on their own as they are to survive the copper treatment. I don't remember over the top of my head if Potter's is one of the extra-sensitive ones or not (Scott Michael talks about this a little in his Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes book, and he prefers hyposalinity for treating angels).

Dave

kj5432 · 05/16/2006, 09:01 AM

So I guess what you are saying is that I should use the 31.25ml or not use it at all. The product that I a using is called Copper Power. It states that it is 60 times less toxic to fish. The bottom line is that I really like my Potter's Angel and want it to thrive. You have stated that you are against copper unless there are signs of disease and I respect your opinion. I have already started the copper last night at about 8pm which makes it 14 hours that the fish has been in "copper" quarantine. Do you think it will be ok? If not what do you suggest?

Wolverine · 05/16/2006, 09:35 AM

One thing I would do is read this.

Steve did a nice review on Ich, and the treatment options. There's a second part to the article also.

At some point he also did an article on quarantining fish, and the methods he uses. He uses hyposalinity with fish at high risk of getting ich.

As for your situation, I would do one of two things. One would be to bump the copper up to the therapeutic range. Before you do that, test the copper level yourself. That will give you more information than what is on the side of the bottle (Steve's article above gives the various therapeutic windows from different authors).
The other option would be to forgo the copper side of things, and switch to hyposalinity. Whether or not you would actively remove the copper at this point would be up to you. The process of making the tank hyposaline would significantly reduce the concentration anyway.

If it were my tank, I would go with the latter, for numerous reasons.

I don't know anything about that product in particular. In general, I'm suspicious of claims like that, since they often don't have any true justification for their quantification (ie, how did they decide that this was 60X less toxic for fish?).

Dave

jda · 05/16/2006, 01:55 PM

IMO limiting stress is better than fighting disease.

I don't always quarantine, but I do like to isolate fish. I have a 210G FOWLR and a 75G isolation/fuge that share a sump. I at least isolate all new fish for a month. The isolation/fuge is full of pods and other fauna and provides a nice stress-free place for the new fish not to get sick while they get used to captive life and learn to eat captive foods.

Even I get a specimin with a disease, my other fish are strong enough to resist it, so I don't necessarlialy pull them to medicate right away. Most of the time they heal on their own very quickly (if they are eating). If I do need to medicate, then I have a 37G cube that I fill up with display water ready to go. Medication is a last resort and I have only had to do it a few times in the last 5-6 years.

Only after the fish are strong, colorful and will fight for food do they go into the other tanks.

05/15/2006, 12:57 PM	#1
kj5432 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 198	To quarantine or not quarantine, that is the question I have always quarantined all of my fish for 4-6 weeks before they go into my display tank. I like to do this so that I can run copper to kill parasites so that hopefully I won't introduce ich into my display(by the way this thread is not intended for a discussion on the presence or absence of ich in a display setup). So I bought a Potter's Angel. I want to find out what tyes of experience, both positive and negative, people have had with the quarantine of Potter's Angels. Should I qt or not qt???

05/15/2006, 06:57 PM	#8
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	I only have one example, I picked up my potter's about a month ago. I did not quarantine it. I put in directly in to my 6+ year old 58g. It was eating within hours of being put into the tank, plus picking at the rocks all day long. Since I did not put him into QT I can't say what would have happened. Just my $0.02. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

05/15/2006, 06:59 PM	#9
Toddrtrex Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 23,162	and here is the best picture of said potter's that I have. __________________ Click my name and then "visit toddrtrex's homepage" for tank pictures Current Tank Info: 210g reef and 65g reef

05/16/2006, 09:35 AM	#14
Wolverine RC Mod Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 17,732	One thing I would do is read this. Steve did a nice review on Ich, and the treatment options. There's a second part to the article also. At some point he also did an article on quarantining fish, and the methods he uses. He uses hyposalinity with fish at high risk of getting ich. As for your situation, I would do one of two things. One would be to bump the copper up to the therapeutic range. Before you do that, test the copper level yourself. That will give you more information than what is on the side of the bottle (Steve's article above gives the various therapeutic windows from different authors). The other option would be to forgo the copper side of things, and switch to hyposalinity. Whether or not you would actively remove the copper at this point would be up to you. The process of making the tank hyposaline would significantly reduce the concentration anyway. If it were my tank, I would go with the latter, for numerous reasons. I don't know anything about that product in particular. In general, I'm suspicious of claims like that, since they often don't have any true justification for their quantification (ie, how did they decide that this was 60X less toxic for fish?). Dave __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams Current Tank Info: 14g, 29g nano reefs

05/15/2006, 01:20 PM	#2
jdenton Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Crown Point, IN Posts: 41	I have tried qt many times and always seem to stress the fish out more. I know that I am supposed to qt, but my success rate at it is abysmal. Lately I have been doing a prophylactic dip, then straight into my display tank. I never did qt until a couple of years ago when I read about how important it is, the only thing is I never had a problem without qt and always do with qt. Obviously my qt system is inadequate somehow. I use a 10 gallon, I typically only get small fish, but I think I will eventually get a larger qt system when $ allows.

05/15/2006, 03:19 PM	#4
kj5432 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 198	Yes, I traditionally qt all fish with copper for 4-6 weeks before I add to the display tank to ensure the removal of parasites is guaranteed (especially tangs). In question here is wheter or not to qt a POTTER'S ANGEL.

05/15/2006, 04:07 PM	#6
kj5432 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 198	I am not clear on what you are trying to communicate in your post. Also, when you say hyposalinity is safer...what specific gravity?

05/15/2006, 05:55 PM	#7
Tremelle Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 929	If you do choose to quarantine the new Potters angel, do not use copper. Copper is almost a sure death for angels.

05/16/2006, 08:03 AM	#11
kj5432 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 198	Wolverine, a few posts up Tremelle says that copper is almost a sure death for angels. I have never heard anything like this before about angels. Any opinion on this?

05/16/2006, 09:01 AM	#13
kj5432 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 198	So I guess what you are saying is that I should use the 31.25ml or not use it at all. The product that I a using is called Copper Power. It states that it is 60 times less toxic to fish. The bottom line is that I really like my Potter's Angel and want it to thrive. You have stated that you are against copper unless there are signs of disease and I respect your opinion. I have already started the copper last night at about 8pm which makes it 14 hours that the fish has been in "copper" quarantine. Do you think it will be ok? If not what do you suggest?

05/16/2006, 01:55 PM	#15
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	IMO limiting stress is better than fighting disease. I don't always quarantine, but I do like to isolate fish. I have a 210G FOWLR and a 75G isolation/fuge that share a sump. I at least isolate all new fish for a month. The isolation/fuge is full of pods and other fauna and provides a nice stress-free place for the new fish not to get sick while they get used to captive life and learn to eat captive foods. Even I get a specimin with a disease, my other fish are strong enough to resist it, so I don't necessarlialy pull them to medicate right away. Most of the time they heal on their own very quickly (if they are eating). If I do need to medicate, then I have a 37G cube that I fill up with display water ready to go. Medication is a last resort and I have only had to do it a few times in the last 5-6 years. Only after the fish are strong, colorful and will fight for food do they go into the other tanks.