Georgia Aquarium...using tap water?

bennerkla · 05/16/2006, 10:50 PM

Quote:

The aquarium expects 2.4 million visitors in the first year and to bring $1 billion into the city over the next five years. (Full story)

So where did a landlocked city get all that saltwater? It's city water chemically treated with a product that's available at most pet stores.

It goes on to talk about Instant Ocean being the salt. Looking at those aquariums, I can't believe that is tap water mixed with Instant Ocean. I refused to use tap water in my first tank when I didn't know what a sump was.

Is this a misprint? They had to use RO/DI water to set up those tanks, right?

bennerkla · 05/17/2006, 07:30 AM

Anyone have an idea?

gh0st · 05/17/2006, 07:48 AM

Not necesarily.

I live in a city that has pretty much perfect water out of the tap for Aquariums, so I and most fish keepers I know don't use RO for our make up water. There's really no need for it here.

Other cities are not so fortunate.

xtrstangx · 05/17/2006, 07:57 AM

Some cities have tap water that is about 35 ppm TDS. Here in KS it is about 200-300 and Arizona has about 1500 in some areas.

35 ppm wouldn't be too bad for setting up an aquarium that big. I imagine if they had any SPS reefs, they may have gotten a RO/DI or atleast a RO.

SunnyX · 05/17/2006, 09:37 AM

LOL, could you imagine the size of the RO/DI unit they would have to use to fill up all that water.

With a volume of water that large I wouldnt think you would have to do anything but clean the glass and feed the fish after a while.

Amphiprion · 05/17/2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SunnyX
LOL, could you imagine the size of the RO/DI unit they would have to use to fill up all that water.

With a volume of water that large I wouldnt think you would have to do anything but clean the glass and feed the fish after a while.

Not so sure about that. I don't know how much of a bioload 2 26ft whale sharks (and all those groupers, wrasses, and golden pilot jacks) put on that system

bennerkla · 05/17/2006, 01:52 PM

I see your point, though. I just would love to see the filtration on that type of tank.

Andrew · 05/17/2006, 02:09 PM

I haven't used ro/di water, as well as some other people and don't have any major problems. Plus their tank is huge and at that size, it may be able to take care of itself.

omni2226 · 05/17/2006, 02:15 PM

A little tidbit from a guy named Robert Fenner on water qualty.

Begin quote :
"The principal ingredient, by weight and volume in a marine system is... H2O. Your tap water has much more to it then Hydrogen and Oxygen. Ordinary mains water sports dissolved and suspended gases, solids, other liquids, remnants of, and organic life; and a sanitizer (usually chloramine). Here in Southern California we regularly have several hundred parts per million (ppm) of total dissolved solids (TDS) in our tap.

Does all this glop (non-scientific term) pose real problems for an earnest marine aquarist? No, in all honesty, it's minor spuds (small potatoes) compared with all the other contributing factors affecting the make-up of your system's water.

Hear me out. The E.P.A., among other agencies, mandates just how much of several (from the Middle English, meaning 'many') chemical and biological species are allowable in potable water. For instance, tap must have a concentration of less than 1.0 ppm total Nitrate (NO3). Further influences? Have you thought of the ongoing effects from dissolving substrates, rock, decor, feeding (one ounce of food in one million ounces of water would be 1 ppm), biological processes going on in your closed system? And what about the interactions between all this and the salts and more you add to the water?

If you've grown fond of lugging bottled water, utilizing reverse-osmosis, or even distilled water, more power to you. But let's keep all this in perspective. The bulk of undesirable "extras" in tap water can be either ignored or easily removed either through an in-line chemical contactor" (e.g. Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Tap Water Purifier (tm)) or commercially produced conditioners.

Not to disparage the use of more "purified" water out of hand/proportion; my point is that compared with other contributing factors, for marine systems, ordinary treated tapwater is not a major source of concern in terms of added nutrient, pollutants, metals... Freshwater biotopes (e.g. wild discus, some killies) that appreciate far less in their water are a different matter." End quote.

There are quite a few people who dont use sterile water to run aquariums.

omni2226 · 05/17/2006, 02:23 PM

Mmm guess I should mention who Bob Fenner is for people who may not know. He has over 25 years of hands on experience with marine systems and I believe a Phd/bachelors degree in related feilds.
Many of his articles and thoughts on all things wet can be found on a site called wetwebmedia.com

mr pink floyd · 05/17/2006, 02:38 PM

the TDS of my town is 36, have been using tap water no problem for almost 2 years

omni2226 · 05/17/2006, 02:48 PM

As for filters probally a type of module system with fluidised beds.
Modular so parts can be replaced and cleaned without shutting anything off. And with the waste levels of that many fish and large animals fluidised filters would be economical to use.

Kalkbreath · 05/17/2006, 02:48 PM

Scientific opinion a side, there is something in local tap water which effects coraline algae growth in a negative way, Also water changes with tap seem to produce an increase in diatom growth.
Nitrate is the least of the suspected culprits.
Not to knock the Georgia aquarium, but so far their dream system has fallen short and failed many fish.
Tens of thousands of of Batfish, snapper and such are surcoming to hole in the head and lateral line disease.
The Clarity of the main tank water poor and likely not to improve in the future due to the fact that all of the main tanks inhabitants are going to triple in size during the next two years.
With twenty plus giant Skimmers and sand filters running the main tank and still less then optimum water quality,
I can't imagine any more fancy equipment will solve this circumstance
Perhaps they (the experts) under estimated importance of a clean water source and how the contaminants within can effect the fish.
Unlike Hawaii, this Aquarium is not an open system.
Could it be that staff should have taken the advise of the hobby over the local water company?
With no plans for any water exchanges EVER in the Main tank.
Looks like what ever was in the the tap water on day one will all ways be in the tank to same degree.
Hobbyists should take this as a lesson.
Dont risk using tap.
Tap water quality changes weekly.
The pennies saved are small change compared to the thousands at risk.

omni2226 · 05/17/2006, 03:03 PM

Been using tapwater for aquariums for 24 years. If someone gave me a sterile water maker and forced me to use it, Id plumb it so the tank water went through the charcoal part and right back into the tank bypassing the "purifier" part.

Has nothing to do with saving pennies. I drop hundereds of dollors on lights , pumps and good live rocks I sure wouldnt cringe at a few dollors more in electicty and filters for a RO unit.

If my tapwater was that bad Id be at my local water supplier raisng cain for them to fix the problem or I would move. Forget the fish, what about dogs? cats? not to mention children and infants living in my home.

omni2226 · 05/17/2006, 03:13 PM

One more thing then Ill hush.

You see people posting here every day with funky/fuzzy/furry whoknowswhatitis creepy things growing in their tanks, corals dying, fish dying, or the whole thing crashes and everything dies and they are religous users of ro/di.

What caused it? The sandbed? the rocks leaching? Or could it be stripping everything from the water, leaving only hydrogen and hydroxl, has over a period of time so skewed the chenisrty in the system it can no longer support life?

I think I will go with the tapwater and not try my luck at rebalancing what nature made because I knocked it out of balance to avoid a little phosphate/nitrate.

deansreef · 05/17/2006, 04:14 PM

to each his own, I use ro/di..

EnderG60 · 05/18/2006, 12:55 AM

Down town metro Atlanta gets its water from a river.
This river has another City of 700, 000 people just up stream.
Thats ten sewage stations dumping into this water source twenty miles just prior to the Atlanta draw.( we have been advised twenty years ago not to eat the fish from this river in the same area Atlanta draws its water.)
Still want to drink my pee? add it to your tank? How about my factory's effluent? I make paint!
Middle Florida has nice water sources. Several bottled water sites are in that area.
All tap is not the same.
Even your tried a true tap water in mid Florida can have a bad week :Flooding and runnoff ito rivers, Summer drought and low water tables in the wells. Even a water main break up the street can mean that the water department is going to shock the system with extra anti bacterial agents .
Its just not worth the risk.

mjdlonghorn · 05/18/2006, 01:32 AM

Maybe the buy truck load of ocean water straigh from the ocean. I just posted a thread about this. I think the haters will be very upset that you can get clean water without an RO unit.

Casie · 05/18/2006, 03:29 AM

Since every city's water is different its silly to say, "Yes! Use your tap water!"

I wish my water ran under 30 tds! I might consider using it.

But water arrives at my house measuring 300-400 tds and I seriously doubt my reef would enjoy that. Heck, *I* don't even drink my water unfiltered. RO/DI for the tank. Brita and bottled for me!

landragon · 05/18/2006, 06:24 PM

If you want to remove truely undesirable things, while leaving behind elements and minerals, use a KoldSteril. Bob Fenner loves those too. What he is saying, is there are bigger things to worry about, not you should not worry about it.

If you want to control the situation, get a good ro/di unit. If you live in an area where your water does not kill your lawn, rust your dishes, taste like eggs, and stain your clothes, use tap water.

There are multiple ways to do things.

Quote:

Originally posted by mjdlonghorn
Maybe the buy truck load of ocean water straigh from the ocean. I just posted a thread about this. I think the haters will be very upset that you can get clean water without an RO unit.

Why don't you come back to your thread and talk to some people. I doubt GA does what you ponder.

omni2226 · 05/18/2006, 06:59 PM

Well I said Id hush but landragon you make a good point.

If you live in an area where the water isnt so great then a purifacation system is needed.

But, wouldnt it make more sense to install a system that takes care of the whole house? They make ones that remove toxins like clorine and chlorimine without removing the good stuff.

Sad thing is with the rate of population explosion in Florida our water qualty is going downhill fast, especialy on the coasts.

Be a sad day when I have to install a water purifier so I can take a shower without worrying about my skin peeling off or my hair falling out.

Maybe I come off as a hater of RO/DI users but that isnt true. It just seems that some think if you dont use these devices you are a poor husband of animals or too cheap to spend a few dollors.

Use RO/DI if you have to, but dont be hateful toward those who dont have a need for it. Not yet anyway...hope I never need it.

Andrew · 05/18/2006, 07:10 PM

The strange thing is they only do a 3 gallon water change each day. Read this in the local paper and couldn't believe it.

landragon · 05/18/2006, 07:10 PM

Hate is never an option. There is no reason to disparge someone for doing differently. Any skimmer reccomendations anyone? LOL
I HAVE to use a shower filter actually, or my wifes hair looks like chaeto. It follows a whole house sediment filter, and all the water drank, cooked with , or applied to fish and cats gets some treatment. I do not trust the government to police the industry, and self policing can drastically fail. The KoldSteril does just what you speak of. It uses filter bags to VERY FINELY filter out contaminants and a couple chemical stages as well. Purprted to remove all chlorine/cloramine, as well as N03, NO2, CL and chloramines. Also bacteria , and virii. It will not strip hardness. I do not use it.

landragon · 05/18/2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Andrew
The strange thing is they only do a 3 gallon water change each day. Read this in the local paper and couldn't believe it.

So do I. Can I charge admission to my tank. LOL it is only a 90 though.

omni2226 · 05/18/2006, 07:19 PM

Have to look into these kold steril units. I may convince myself to install something like that.

One thing that does kinda bother me is people tell new reefers to use RO/DI but fail to warn them on important points.

RO/DI will remove everything from the water. This includes oxygen.

Do not use purified water without adding the proper buffering agents and aerating with an airstone or venturi powerhead to replenish the oxygen and ensure correct PH and akalinty levels.

05/17/2006, 07:30 AM	#2
bennerkla Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,046	Anyone have an idea? __________________ -Ben

05/17/2006, 07:48 AM	#3
gh0st Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 956	Not necesarily. I live in a city that has pretty much perfect water out of the tap for Aquariums, so I and most fish keepers I know don't use RO for our make up water. There's really no need for it here. Other cities are not so fortunate. __________________ I REFUSE to buy Named/LE/High End Corals for insane prices. I REFUSE to pay Per Polyp for micro "Frags." Further more, I REFUSE to sell in any similar fashion. This is a hobby, not the Stock Market. If you feel the same, change you're signature to something similar and spread the word! Long Live the Reef Revolution!

05/17/2006, 01:52 PM	#7
bennerkla Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,046	I see your point, though. I just would love to see the filtration on that type of tank. __________________ -Ben

05/17/2006, 02:15 PM	#9
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	A little tidbit from a guy named Robert Fenner on water qualty. Begin quote : "The principal ingredient, by weight and volume in a marine system is... H2O. Your tap water has much more to it then Hydrogen and Oxygen. Ordinary mains water sports dissolved and suspended gases, solids, other liquids, remnants of, and organic life; and a sanitizer (usually chloramine). Here in Southern California we regularly have several hundred parts per million (ppm) of total dissolved solids (TDS) in our tap. Does all this glop (non-scientific term) pose real problems for an earnest marine aquarist? No, in all honesty, it's minor spuds (small potatoes) compared with all the other contributing factors affecting the make-up of your system's water. Hear me out. The E.P.A., among other agencies, mandates just how much of several (from the Middle English, meaning 'many') chemical and biological species are allowable in potable water. For instance, tap must have a concentration of less than 1.0 ppm total Nitrate (NO3). Further influences? Have you thought of the ongoing effects from dissolving substrates, rock, decor, feeding (one ounce of food in one million ounces of water would be 1 ppm), biological processes going on in your closed system? And what about the interactions between all this and the salts and more you add to the water? If you've grown fond of lugging bottled water, utilizing reverse-osmosis, or even distilled water, more power to you. But let's keep all this in perspective. The bulk of undesirable "extras" in tap water can be either ignored or easily removed either through an in-line chemical contactor" (e.g. Aquarium Pharmaceutical's Tap Water Purifier (tm)) or commercially produced conditioners. Not to disparage the use of more "purified" water out of hand/proportion; my point is that compared with other contributing factors, for marine systems, ordinary treated tapwater is not a major source of concern in terms of added nutrient, pollutants, metals... Freshwater biotopes (e.g. wild discus, some killies) that appreciate far less in their water are a different matter." End quote. There are quite a few people who dont use sterile water to run aquariums. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/17/2006, 02:23 PM	#10
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Mmm guess I should mention who Bob Fenner is for people who may not know. He has over 25 years of hands on experience with marine systems and I believe a Phd/bachelors degree in related feilds. Many of his articles and thoughts on all things wet can be found on a site called wetwebmedia.com __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/17/2006, 07:57 AM	#4
xtrstangx Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Shawnee, Kansas Posts: 4,568	Some cities have tap water that is about 35 ppm TDS. Here in KS it is about 200-300 and Arizona has about 1500 in some areas. 35 ppm wouldn't be too bad for setting up an aquarium that big. I imagine if they had any SPS reefs, they may have gotten a RO/DI or atleast a RO.

05/17/2006, 09:37 AM	#5
SunnyX Moved On Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,991	LOL, could you imagine the size of the RO/DI unit they would have to use to fill up all that water. With a volume of water that large I wouldnt think you would have to do anything but clean the glass and feed the fish after a while.

05/17/2006, 02:09 PM	#8
Andrew Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 13,640	I haven't used ro/di water, as well as some other people and don't have any major problems. Plus their tank is huge and at that size, it may be able to take care of itself.

05/17/2006, 02:38 PM	#11
mr pink floyd Moved On Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: west hartford, CT Posts: 3,480	the TDS of my town is 36, have been using tap water no problem for almost 2 years

05/17/2006, 02:48 PM	#12
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	As for filters probally a type of module system with fluidised beds. Modular so parts can be replaced and cleaned without shutting anything off. And with the waste levels of that many fish and large animals fluidised filters would be economical to use. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/17/2006, 02:48 PM	#13
Kalkbreath Registered Member. Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 337	Scientific opinion a side, there is something in local tap water which effects coraline algae growth in a negative way, Also water changes with tap seem to produce an increase in diatom growth. Nitrate is the least of the suspected culprits. Not to knock the Georgia aquarium, but so far their dream system has fallen short and failed many fish. Tens of thousands of of Batfish, snapper and such are surcoming to hole in the head and lateral line disease. The Clarity of the main tank water poor and likely not to improve in the future due to the fact that all of the main tanks inhabitants are going to triple in size during the next two years. With twenty plus giant Skimmers and sand filters running the main tank and still less then optimum water quality, I can't imagine any more fancy equipment will solve this circumstance Perhaps they (the experts) under estimated importance of a clean water source and how the contaminants within can effect the fish. Unlike Hawaii, this Aquarium is not an open system. Could it be that staff should have taken the advise of the hobby over the local water company? With no plans for any water exchanges EVER in the Main tank. Looks like what ever was in the the tap water on day one will all ways be in the tank to same degree. Hobbyists should take this as a lesson. Dont risk using tap. Tap water quality changes weekly. The pennies saved are small change compared to the thousands at risk.

05/17/2006, 03:03 PM	#14
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Been using tapwater for aquariums for 24 years. If someone gave me a sterile water maker and forced me to use it, Id plumb it so the tank water went through the charcoal part and right back into the tank bypassing the "purifier" part. Has nothing to do with saving pennies. I drop hundereds of dollors on lights , pumps and good live rocks I sure wouldnt cringe at a few dollors more in electicty and filters for a RO unit. If my tapwater was that bad Id be at my local water supplier raisng cain for them to fix the problem or I would move. Forget the fish, what about dogs? cats? not to mention children and infants living in my home. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/17/2006, 03:13 PM	#15
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	One more thing then Ill hush. You see people posting here every day with funky/fuzzy/furry whoknowswhatitis creepy things growing in their tanks, corals dying, fish dying, or the whole thing crashes and everything dies and they are religous users of ro/di. What caused it? The sandbed? the rocks leaching? Or could it be stripping everything from the water, leaving only hydrogen and hydroxl, has over a period of time so skewed the chenisrty in the system it can no longer support life? I think I will go with the tapwater and not try my luck at rebalancing what nature made because I knocked it out of balance to avoid a little phosphate/nitrate. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/17/2006, 04:14 PM	#16
deansreef Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: north carolina Posts: 3,234	to each his own, I use ro/di.. __________________ the only dumb question, is the one not asked... Current Tank Info: 225 gallon peninsula

05/18/2006, 12:55 AM	#17
EnderG60 Plumbing Engineer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 3,260	Down town metro Atlanta gets its water from a river. This river has another City of 700, 000 people just up stream. Thats ten sewage stations dumping into this water source twenty miles just prior to the Atlanta draw.( we have been advised twenty years ago not to eat the fish from this river in the same area Atlanta draws its water.) Still want to drink my pee? add it to your tank? How about my factory's effluent? I make paint! Middle Florida has nice water sources. Several bottled water sites are in that area. All tap is not the same. Even your tried a true tap water in mid Florida can have a bad week :Flooding and runnoff ito rivers, Summer drought and low water tables in the wells. Even a water main break up the street can mean that the water department is going to shock the system with extra anti bacterial agents . Its just not worth the risk.

05/18/2006, 01:32 AM	#18
mjdlonghorn Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 108	Maybe the buy truck load of ocean water straigh from the ocean. I just posted a thread about this. I think the haters will be very upset that you can get clean water without an RO unit.

05/18/2006, 03:29 AM	#19
Casie Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Elm Grove, La Posts: 363	Since every city's water is different its silly to say, "Yes! Use your tap water!" I wish my water ran under 30 tds! I might consider using it. But water arrives at my house measuring 300-400 tds and I seriously doubt my reef would enjoy that. Heck, I don't even drink my water unfiltered. RO/DI for the tank. Brita and bottled for me! __________________ ==(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)== ¤´¨`·.¸¸.Casie.¸¸.·´¨`¤ ==(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)== Current Tank Info: 200 gallon mixed

05/18/2006, 06:59 PM	#21
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Well I said Id hush but landragon you make a good point. If you live in an area where the water isnt so great then a purifacation system is needed. But, wouldnt it make more sense to install a system that takes care of the whole house? They make ones that remove toxins like clorine and chlorimine without removing the good stuff. Sad thing is with the rate of population explosion in Florida our water qualty is going downhill fast, especialy on the coasts. Be a sad day when I have to install a water purifier so I can take a shower without worrying about my skin peeling off or my hair falling out. Maybe I come off as a hater of RO/DI users but that isnt true. It just seems that some think if you dont use these devices you are a poor husband of animals or too cheap to spend a few dollors. Use RO/DI if you have to, but dont be hateful toward those who dont have a need for it. Not yet anyway...hope I never need it. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/18/2006, 07:10 PM	#22
Andrew Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 13,640	The strange thing is they only do a 3 gallon water change each day. Read this in the local paper and couldn't believe it.

05/18/2006, 07:10 PM	#23
landragon Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 892	Hate is never an option. There is no reason to disparge someone for doing differently. Any skimmer reccomendations anyone? LOL I HAVE to use a shower filter actually, or my wifes hair looks like chaeto. It follows a whole house sediment filter, and all the water drank, cooked with , or applied to fish and cats gets some treatment. I do not trust the government to police the industry, and self policing can drastically fail. The KoldSteril does just what you speak of. It uses filter bags to VERY FINELY filter out contaminants and a couple chemical stages as well. Purprted to remove all chlorine/cloramine, as well as N03, NO2, CL and chloramines. Also bacteria , and virii. It will not strip hardness. I do not use it. __________________ "Experience is the only tool we aren't born with." Unknown

05/18/2006, 07:19 PM	#25
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	Have to look into these kold steril units. I may convince myself to install something like that. One thing that does kinda bother me is people tell new reefers to use RO/DI but fail to warn them on important points. RO/DI will remove everything from the water. This includes oxygen. Do not use purified water without adding the proper buffering agents and aerating with an airstone or venturi powerhead to replenish the oxygen and ensure correct PH and akalinty levels. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.