clown fish death trap

reefman43 · 06/23/2006, 04:29 PM

For some odd reason I keep losing clown fish pairs. 6 now total the death list. My water perameters are fine. Nothing in my tank is aggressive. I only have one bicolor dottyback and 2 bengi cardinals. plenty of inverts. i have staked it out looking for a mantis shrimp but have come up empty handed. As soon as the lights go out, they go into a wierd trance like state. maybe just sleep swimming. By the next morning they are gone. 5 of them have disapeared without a trace. 1, they latest victim, ended up floating in the tank. there was no visible damage to the body. i know it is not my bicolor. i put her in a seperate tank for about 5 days and it still happened. Any ideas what is going wrong? I hope someone knows something. my wife is getting ticked.

physicslord · 06/23/2006, 04:54 PM

Maybe UV exposure? Just a guess.
Fish that have too much UV exposure are blinded and swim around in a trance. Then they just die.

What kind of lighting situation do you have? Could be a metal halide that has no UV shield.

reefman43 · 06/23/2006, 05:06 PM

The lights that I have are Current brand PC rated at 4x95 watt. I don't think that is it.

reefman43 · 06/23/2006, 05:31 PM

It is happening in my smaller tank. The 80 gallon stoney

Kigs · 06/23/2006, 05:34 PM

maybe your source of purchase is selling sick fish

reefman43 · 06/23/2006, 05:41 PM

The lfs I have always get my live stock from has a good rep. around the area and most of them are friends of mine. they have been in business since the 50's.

physicslord · 06/23/2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vsny2k5
maybe your source of purchase is selling sick fish

Yeah, maybe they are getting wild caught clowns from importers who use cyanide.

Switching stores might make a difference. I know from mine and others experience that some stores sell fish that are generally healthy, while it seems like I could never get fish to live from others.

reefman43 · 06/23/2006, 06:29 PM

That could be very true. I was talking to a buddy of mine and he thinks it might be a spearhead mantis shrimp. Any ideas on how to catch it?

Agu · 06/23/2006, 06:58 PM

If it were a spearing mantis not only would the bodies be mutilated but your other fish would probably be lunch too.

What are your water parameters? Have them verified at the LFS. Fish can adapt over time but if something is off new fish can succumb quickly.

Bebo77 · 06/23/2006, 07:05 PM

how are you acclimating the fish? if they are dying that fast with no damage to your body it may be your water..

Amy83820 · 06/23/2006, 07:12 PM

Do you know if they are wild caught or tank bred?

reefman43 · 06/23/2006, 09:17 PM

my water perameters are great. The LFS has cross checked them.
All fish are acclamated by a slow drip process. At least 2 hours depending on the specimine. Now, I have only found one out of the 6 fish. Nothing was wrong with the body. It could have been sick or what not. As for the other five. ????? no carcasses have been found. I have torn the reef apart looking for the bodies and have found nothing. that is not saying my othe inverts have not done a great clean up job, but, you would think there would be something left. I have spoke with alot of people and everyone seems to be leaning towards the mantis. Any ideas on how to lure him out and to catch him. Assuming that is what the problem is. With my cardinals, they hang out towards the top of the tank and my bicolor seems to be to fast for it to nab.

Kigs · 06/23/2006, 09:55 PM

like Agu has mentioned earlier, if it is a spear mantis, they it would eat them and you wouldn't find their carcasses floating above the water. You could try an invert trap, if you are still convinced that it is a mantis. (inverted top bottle with food inside) but mantis still tends to be harder to catch. Here's a video, courtesy of RC member "Timmy" and his spear mantis. Check it out, you'll see that they are extremely fast, probably faster than all the fish in your tank. mantis video

Maybe the clowns are susceptible to some disease that all your other fish are immune to? maybe there is some previous substance in your tank that the clowns are sensitive to. How old has the tank been set up?

wrott · 06/23/2006, 10:05 PM

Do you have an anem. that is eating them--just a guess??

reefman43 · 06/23/2006, 11:08 PM

The tank is about 9 months old. I have been taking it very slow with the tank. All of the LR has been in there since the first week. I slowly add things to the tank so as not to upset any type of balance. And because my wife has me on a reef budget. Kind of funny how that works. The only anem. I have in there is a 6 inch green carpet. They seemed to love it. Then poof bye-bye.
I have been looking at the tank for the past 2 hours with a red lens flachlight. Lots of cool stuff. No Mantis yet. Tired eyes though.

affan · 06/23/2006, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by reefman43
The tank is about 9 months old. I have been taking it very slow with the tank. All of the LR has been in there since the first week. I slowly add things to the tank so as not to upset any type of balance. And because my wife has me on a reef budget. Kind of funny how that works. The only anem. I have in there is a 6 inch green carpet. They seemed to love it. Then poof bye-bye.
I have been looking at the tank for the past 2 hours with a red lens flachlight. Lots of cool stuff. No Mantis yet. Tired eyes though.

Aha! Your Stichodactyla haddoni is definitely the culprit!

Humuhumunuku · 06/23/2006, 11:44 PM

don't carpet anems have too strong of a sting for clowns?

Kigs · 06/23/2006, 11:59 PM

mine did well in a carpet. i did hear that fish with weaker immunity will be eaten by a carpet, or if the anenome is really starved.

km133688 · 06/24/2006, 09:08 AM

my lfs said carpets are notorious for chowing down on all fish, even clowns. He said not all carpets are the same, and there are clowns that will host in them fine, but overall they are super aggressive eaters and will devour clowns that don't normally host them.

Read on RC of a guy who had a carpet that ate his rubber glove, then spit it up 3 days later. Geesh.

Good luck, Kevin

shilo_1 · 06/24/2006, 10:39 AM

It's likely the anemone ! There was a post on RC a while back of a guy who had the same problem...all his fish were going missing with no trace...one day he came in to find his large yellow tang being eaten - he posted pics.

CeeGee · 06/24/2006, 10:53 AM

sounds like we have a winner!

You got your answer!

reefman43 · 06/24/2006, 06:11 PM

I hope you are right. I am still going to stake out the tank for a couple more nights just to be on the safe side. Incase there is a mantis in there. If there is, do they prefer sand burrows or rock?

Humuhumunuku · 06/24/2006, 06:19 PM

what ever is killing your fish, it isn't a mantis, if it was, there wouldn't be a fish left to find floating on the top

appellativo · 06/24/2006, 07:12 PM

I second that a carpet anemone will eat anything it can catch. Including clowns. If you choose to keep yours AND clowns, feed it well and pray real hard. I did witness one guy who kept a huge green carpet and a Clark's clown successfully together, if that helps. Maybe you want to find a nice large specimen.

reefman43 · 06/25/2006, 03:54 PM

I am going to move my carpet to a quarintine tank and add a fish or two. If it happens again, mantis it may be.

06/23/2006, 04:29 PM	#1
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	clown fish death trap For some odd reason I keep losing clown fish pairs. 6 now total the death list. My water perameters are fine. Nothing in my tank is aggressive. I only have one bicolor dottyback and 2 bengi cardinals. plenty of inverts. i have staked it out looking for a mantis shrimp but have come up empty handed. As soon as the lights go out, they go into a wierd trance like state. maybe just sleep swimming. By the next morning they are gone. 5 of them have disapeared without a trace. 1, they latest victim, ended up floating in the tank. there was no visible damage to the body. i know it is not my bicolor. i put her in a seperate tank for about 5 days and it still happened. Any ideas what is going wrong? I hope someone knows something. my wife is getting ticked. __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/23/2006, 04:54 PM	#2
physicslord Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Santa Cruz Posts: 469	Maybe UV exposure? Just a guess. Fish that have too much UV exposure are blinded and swim around in a trance. Then they just die. What kind of lighting situation do you have? Could be a metal halide that has no UV shield. __________________ a border collie is my pilot animal Current Tank Info: 12 gal. JBJ nanoDX, BB, 2x24W PC lighting, JBJ ballast, Maxijet 400 powerhead, Hagen Tronic 100W heater, Red Sea 60 skimmer with Hagen Elite 802 pump.

06/23/2006, 05:06 PM	#3
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	The lights that I have are Current brand PC rated at 4x95 watt. I don't think that is it. __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/23/2006, 05:31 PM	#4
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	It is happening in my smaller tank. The 80 gallon stoney __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/23/2006, 05:41 PM	#6
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	The lfs I have always get my live stock from has a good rep. around the area and most of them are friends of mine. they have been in business since the 50's. __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/23/2006, 05:34 PM	#5
Kigs Moved On Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: LI, NY Posts: 2,182	maybe your source of purchase is selling sick fish

06/23/2006, 06:29 PM	#8
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	That could be very true. I was talking to a buddy of mine and he thinks it might be a spearhead mantis shrimp. Any ideas on how to catch it? __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/23/2006, 06:58 PM	#9
Agu Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 30,279	If it were a spearing mantis not only would the bodies be mutilated but your other fish would probably be lunch too. What are your water parameters? Have them verified at the LFS. Fish can adapt over time but if something is off new fish can succumb quickly. __________________ Less technology , more biology . Current Tank Info: 30 gallon half cube and 5.5, both reef tanks

06/23/2006, 07:05 PM	#10
Bebo77 Premium Nonpaying Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Lost Posts: 14,377	how are you acclimating the fish? if they are dying that fast with no damage to your body it may be your water.. __________________ Gabriel Current Tank Info: 300 Gal Envision Tank(98Lx30Wx26T) 120 Gal SoCalCreations Sump, Deltec TC2560, 2 LumenarcsMini 1 Reg on a light mover W Radiums 250& 400, Gallaxy ballasts, Red Dragon 10m3 return W/ 2 WavySeas, 2 6155 Tunze streams

06/23/2006, 07:12 PM	#11
Amy83820 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wentzville, MO Posts: 626	Do you know if they are wild caught or tank bred? __________________ I'm consistently torn between wanting to know more about your life and just waiting to see it on "Cops." Current Tank Info: 90 gallons o' salty goodness

06/23/2006, 09:17 PM	#12
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	my water perameters are great. The LFS has cross checked them. All fish are acclamated by a slow drip process. At least 2 hours depending on the specimine. Now, I have only found one out of the 6 fish. Nothing was wrong with the body. It could have been sick or what not. As for the other five. ????? no carcasses have been found. I have torn the reef apart looking for the bodies and have found nothing. that is not saying my othe inverts have not done a great clean up job, but, you would think there would be something left. I have spoke with alot of people and everyone seems to be leaning towards the mantis. Any ideas on how to lure him out and to catch him. Assuming that is what the problem is. With my cardinals, they hang out towards the top of the tank and my bicolor seems to be to fast for it to nab. __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/23/2006, 09:55 PM	#13
Kigs Moved On Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: LI, NY Posts: 2,182	like Agu has mentioned earlier, if it is a spear mantis, they it would eat them and you wouldn't find their carcasses floating above the water. You could try an invert trap, if you are still convinced that it is a mantis. (inverted top bottle with food inside) but mantis still tends to be harder to catch. Here's a video, courtesy of RC member "Timmy" and his spear mantis. Check it out, you'll see that they are extremely fast, probably faster than all the fish in your tank. mantis video Maybe the clowns are susceptible to some disease that all your other fish are immune to? maybe there is some previous substance in your tank that the clowns are sensitive to. How old has the tank been set up?

06/23/2006, 10:05 PM	#14
wrott Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,912	Do you have an anem. that is eating them--just a guess?? __________________ OK, but where does the meat go! ------------------------------------------------ 120g SPS, 125g mix, 56g FOWLR, 20g qt

06/23/2006, 11:08 PM	#15
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	The tank is about 9 months old. I have been taking it very slow with the tank. All of the LR has been in there since the first week. I slowly add things to the tank so as not to upset any type of balance. And because my wife has me on a reef budget. Kind of funny how that works. The only anem. I have in there is a 6 inch green carpet. They seemed to love it. Then poof bye-bye. I have been looking at the tank for the past 2 hours with a red lens flachlight. Lots of cool stuff. No Mantis yet. Tired eyes though. __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/23/2006, 11:44 PM	#17
Humuhumunuku Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Townsville, AU Posts: 616 Blog Entries: 1	don't carpet anems have too strong of a sting for clowns? __________________ They mostly come at night. Mostly. Current Tank Info: 135g mixed reef

06/23/2006, 11:59 PM	#18
Kigs Moved On Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: LI, NY Posts: 2,182	mine did well in a carpet. i did hear that fish with weaker immunity will be eaten by a carpet, or if the anenome is really starved.

06/24/2006, 09:08 AM	#19
km133688 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Norwich CT Posts: 1,559	my lfs said carpets are notorious for chowing down on all fish, even clowns. He said not all carpets are the same, and there are clowns that will host in them fine, but overall they are super aggressive eaters and will devour clowns that don't normally host them. Read on RC of a guy who had a carpet that ate his rubber glove, then spit it up 3 days later. Geesh. Good luck, Kevin __________________ Elderwoman says: "come in Chosen One and hear, our village is saved, for the holy G.E.C.K. has promised we will be delivered a Fallout3!" Current Tank Info: 28Gallon BioCube HQI w/ mated pair of tomatoe clowns and mated pair of banggai cardinalfish

06/24/2006, 10:39 AM	#20
shilo_1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dixon, CA (95620) Posts: 2,857	It's likely the anemone ! There was a post on RC a while back of a guy who had the same problem...all his fish were going missing with no trace...one day he came in to find his large yellow tang being eaten - he posted pics. __________________ Shilo Current Tank Info: FS: 93g Rimless Starphire Cube Setup

06/24/2006, 10:53 AM	#21
CeeGee Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 3,272	sounds like we have a winner! You got your answer! __________________ My algae WAS special. Current Tank Info: 75 gallon display, 40 gallon breeder sump, RLSS R6i, ATI Powermodule, Apex, Ecotech MP40's

06/24/2006, 06:11 PM	#22
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	I hope you are right. I am still going to stake out the tank for a couple more nights just to be on the safe side. Incase there is a mantis in there. If there is, do they prefer sand burrows or rock? __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration

06/24/2006, 06:19 PM	#23
Humuhumunuku Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Townsville, AU Posts: 616 Blog Entries: 1	what ever is killing your fish, it isn't a mantis, if it was, there wouldn't be a fish left to find floating on the top __________________ They mostly come at night. Mostly. Current Tank Info: 135g mixed reef

06/24/2006, 07:12 PM	#24
appellativo Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 633	I second that a carpet anemone will eat anything it can catch. Including clowns. If you choose to keep yours AND clowns, feed it well and pray real hard. I did witness one guy who kept a huge green carpet and a Clark's clown successfully together, if that helps. Maybe you want to find a nice large specimen. __________________ If the first step toward recovery is admitting you have a problem...then I will stay in denial ;)

06/25/2006, 03:54 PM	#25
reefman43 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: wash. dc Posts: 46	I am going to move my carpet to a quarintine tank and add a fish or two. If it happens again, mantis it may be. __________________ Joe You know you have a problem when you spend more on your tank than you do on your mortgage. Current Tank Info: 300 litre reef. Current PC system, wet/dry filtration