Are Tunze's worth the money? - Page 2

Eric Boerner · 07/20/2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Boerner
Tunze's will pay for themselves in 1.5 year (or less depending if you live in Calf or not), vs a closed loop system.

Because of the savings in electricity

RichConley · 07/20/2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James77
As far as I know, the seio controller can control only 2 pumps. It switches the pumps from to either 30% or 100% simultaneously. Not too controllable if you ask me.

The tunze controller can control 8 pumps, is variable between 30% and 100%, has tidal simulation, different cycles, and numerous time cycles. There is no comparison if you ask me.

__________________

Which are all cool.

But really, how much difference does it make for your tank? PROVE that tidal simulation makes any difference.

RichConley · 07/20/2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by coralnut99
From a guy who threw away over a dozen Rio's, just gave away 2 Seio 1100's:

Bite the bullet on the Tunze's

If you can't afford the contoller, There's a simple timer with 15 minute intervals for $16, that you can set to vaguely simulate the controller, using the non-controllable Tuzes. Not perfect, but not bad either. Still better than Seios.

????

Why not just make a maximod? A tenth of the cost, willa ctually last longer. (Tunze really doesnt reccomend doing what you're saying) and has more flow per watt?

RichConley · 07/20/2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James77
I disagree-It's not 50% from 2 pumps. Its left to right movement-one set(up to 4) of pumps goes at its maximum set speed, the other set drops to its lowest set speed. With a seaswirl type flow, you get a unidirectional flow. It pumps water in one direction side to side, there is no possibility of tidal simulation. They are still alot better than a straight powerhead or cheap wavemaker though.

you obviously have not seen two oscillating powerheads at different ends of a tank. I've got a Tunze 6060 on one end of the tank, and maximod on the other, both oscilating. It is significantly more flow, and significantly more random than a pair of 6000s.

RichConley · 07/20/2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eric Boerner

An ranked ordered list of things that could compare to a couple streams that aren't on a controller:

1. Streams
2. Vortechs??? (have not seen these in person yet, would be happy to evaluate them though)
3. MJ-900 Prop Mod
4. High Pressure multi-outlet closed loop with eductors
5. 16-24 powerheads in each corner of the tank.

So you're ranking things you've never even seen?

Like I've said, I dont know too much about the controllable tunzes, but Iv'e got a modded maxijet 900, and a Tunze 6060 in my tank. The maxijet moves more water, uses less electricity, and is smaller. I dont get how you can rank the tunze ahead of it, other than blatant fanboyism.

Fliger · 07/20/2006, 03:35 PM

Having had many many many many Tunzes over the years I find them worth the money, depending on your setup. But I do have to agree with Hans. An oscillating Stream does NOT provide a uni-directional flow - at least on my tank. My tank is 48L x 32W and the flow is incredible. It creates undertows and as the Stream turns, it fights with the undertows creating very random flow. I have a 6100 turning and haven't even been able to get past 2,000GPH. I can say that my SPS have never been happier - not even when I ran 2x6200's and 2x6100 w/a 7095.

I have a second WS and I'm thinking of putting my return pump on that, it's probably 500 GPH and will just stir things up a little more.

But yeah - Streams are great. They are awfully big though and that won't suit everyone's taste. I also have a couple Maxijet mods (from dhn & lutz) and they are nice but a little rough around the edges for looks. Very nice tho and better than a SEIO any day.

Fliger · 07/20/2006, 03:40 PM

Rich I'm sure the MJ mod beats a 6060 - but nowhere near a 6100. Trust me they are side by side as I type. ;-) The flow path of my MJ mods (both are 1200's) is nowhere near the Tunze. The control feature is on the 6000/6100/6200 is awesome, very natural and of course the feed option is great not just for feeding but for topdown views, moving rocks around, etc.

Yinger · 07/20/2006, 03:40 PM

RichConley, how did you mod your Mjs? I'm thinking about putting some in my tank for additional flow

Eric Boerner · 07/20/2006, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
So you're ranking things you've never even seen?... ...I dont get how you can rank the tunze ahead of it, other than blatant fanboyism.

I have 4 MJ-900's in my 180g.
I have owned 2 Tunze 6080's.
I know reefers personally that have 6100's.
I just tored down a 4500 GPH closed loop on 6 eductors.
I have owned in the last 10 years probably every single powerhead and pump make on the market....

I stated... That I have not seen the Vortechs in person. They work on the same principle as the Tunze, are as expensive, cost the same in electricity, but can be used on a variable cycle.

Im not a fanboy sir... I happen to rely heavily on my MJ-900 mods at this time. They suffice perfectly for the flow pattern and rate that I need for the size of my tank.

However, if given an unlimited budget, I would in fact purchase off my ranked list in that order. Simply because I would get more push out of a Tunze 6100 or Vortechs, and because I would be able to put them on a variable cycle controller. However... I am not in the position to do so at this time, thus I rely upon my Modded Jets, just as you do Rich.

Please read a post before flaming, BBTYVM...

James77 · 07/20/2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
Which are all cool.

But really, how much difference does it make for your tank? PROVE that tidal simulation makes any difference.

You have to be kidding me. You want me to show that simulating what these corals/inverts/fish experience in the ocean makes a difference? I'd hazard to say that nearly everyone would agree that randow water flow, with a hint of tidal flow is beneficial. I'm not about to prove it, especially for you.

Eric Boerner · 07/20/2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

PROVE that tidal simulation makes any difference.

Coral physiology demands it....

Corals can only resperate properly when water is flowing around every portion of their tissue. Unilateral or uneven flow patterns that do not wash their entire body wind up sufficating them, killing tissue off. Tidal flows bath the coral completely and allows it so resperate much more naturally.

Asking to prove if tidal simulation makes a difference is almost akin to saying, prove that corals breath.

James77 · 07/20/2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
you obviously have not seen two oscillating powerheads at different ends of a tank. I've got a Tunze 6060 on one end of the tank, and maximod on the other, both oscilating. It is significantly more flow, and significantly more random than a pair of 6000s.

No RichConley, you are wrong, do not try to assume what I have seen because you disagree with my post. I have seen two seaswirls at my LFS tank- not bad, it does not compare to the amount of flow I see in my tank. Then again, neither were the better-than-sliced-bread MJ mod- Im sure it would have made all the difference.

Eric Boerner · 07/20/2006, 04:00 PM

Oh yeah and forgot to mention in my validation of experience. I just sold 2 Sea Swirls that I used on my tank for 3 years on my closed loop.

Fliger · 07/20/2006, 04:03 PM

Well I am with Rich/Hans/everyone else who's put an oscilating device with a Tunze on it, it is incredible. My SPS appreciate a nice firm bath every 30 seconds or so. There are absolutely zero dead spots because at one point in time of every minute - there is a Stream pointed at in every single direction of the tank. As a diver of 17 years now, its the most natural flow I've ever seen, with the possible exception of the Tunze Wave Machine.

moebetter · 07/20/2006, 04:03 PM

you pay to get the best!!nonthing out there comes close to there quility and dependablity!!well worth every penny-and your corals will love you for it

Funky_Fish14 · 07/20/2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fliger
Well I am with Rich/Hans/everyone else who's put an oscilating device with a Tunze on it, it is incredible. My SPS appreciate a nice firm bath every 30 seconds or so. There are absolutely zero dead spots because at one point in time of every minute - there is a Stream pointed at in every single direction of the tank. As a diver of 17 years now, its the most natural flow I've ever seen, with the possible exception of the Tunze Wave Machine.

Which streams do you have though, are they on a controller or not?

Fliger · 07/20/2006, 05:15 PM

Hi, I am running the 6100 and its on a single controller. I've had the 7094 & 7095 so I miss some features, but the single is working just fine so far. I'm fine tuning my %'s - I had to ditch my Southdown and go with Caribsea Sea Floor. On my tank - just the one 6100 was making mountains out of the Southdown, and the flow was so random throughout every nook - I couldn't control it. I like the Sea Floor though.

trmiv · 07/20/2006, 05:18 PM

I wish I could put my 6000 on an oscillating device. But I put horizontal overflows on my new tank, and didn't leave enough room on the back to hang anything, and the canopy prevents anything hanging on the side.

Fliger · 07/20/2006, 05:25 PM

You can do it with a Wavysea! You'd have to notch out a small portion of the inside lip, but I'm sure it would work. Check the Wavysea site for mounting, the entire thing sits INSIDE your tank except the outside portion of your mount. I had to notch out the wood when I ran this on an Oceanic 37G cube (just used a maxijet 1200). Super easy.

trmiv · 07/20/2006, 05:30 PM

I still don't think I could get them to work on there. The overflows take up the entire back of the tank, and extend down into the tank. Nothing can be on the back of the tank at all.

Good to keep in mind if you want this style overflows and want powerheads. I had a hard time making my tunze not stick out like a sore thumb on this setup too. Lesson here is kids, don't make your overflow go the entire length of the back of the tank if you ever want to use the back for anything.

Here are my boxes:

Steven Pro · 07/20/2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
Like I've said, I dont know too much about the controllable tunzes, but Iv'e got a modded maxijet 900, and a Tunze 6060 in my tank. The maxijet moves more water, uses less electricity, and is smaller. I dont get how you can rank the tunze ahead of it, other than blatant fanboyism.

To me the big plus would be in being able to take the product out of the box, plug it in, and use it. Having to fabricate something is a big drawback in my opinion.

MarkBailey · 07/20/2006, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven Pro
To me the big plus would be in being able to take the product out of the box, plug it in, and use it. Having to fabricate something is a big drawback in my opinion.

A big drawback? Perhaps... But, I only think that drawback is BIG till I look at how BIG the cost difference is.... maximod all the way IMO.....

Mark

Steven Pro · 07/20/2006, 07:33 PM

I wrote an article comparing a variety of pumps. You can read the full text here, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...rhead_comp.htm

But, here are some graphs comparing Tunze Streams to Rio Seio's.

hahnmeister · 07/20/2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by James77
I disagree-It's not 50% from 2 pumps. Its left to right movement-one set(up to 4) of pumps goes at its maximum set speed, the other set drops to its lowest set speed. With a seaswirl type flow, you get a unidirectional flow. It pumps water in one direction side to side, there is no possibility of tidal simulation. They are still alot better than a straight powerhead or cheap wavemaker though.

Funky_Fish14 and James77...Lets do math. Two Tunze Streams on a multicontroller means that in a wave mode one will be at 30%, or if not a TUNZE, off all together...while the other one is at 100%. They both have a fixed direction...so the water goes back and forth. At most you will have 130% flow going, and considering one usually faces the other, that means more like 100% - 30%, so 70% in any direction at any given time. Regular powerheads on wave timers mean that for every 2 pumps, only one is on at any given time.

Now, for oscillating powerhead mounts with a Stream...a single Tunze will make about as much as two because it doesnt have to get tuned on/off or down to 30% ever. Instead, it gets attached to a Wavy Sea or a modded Sea Swirl, or a DIY Swirler Stein. The pumps output moves across the tank...providing not only more flow, but to every corner of the tank it is aimed at in its arc...anywhere from 60 to 180 degrees. IMO, there is no comparison...a TUNZE on a oscillating mount just rocks. There are many places that two fixed pumps just never touch compared to a powerhead that moves.

And Im not just talking about that seaswirl that you saw at your LFS...but a 3000gph+ TUNZE attached to one and the piping is disconnected. Of course a regular sea-swirl with what...1000gph or so going through it isnt going to make a huge impact compared to that. I dont know what you have seen, but a TUNZE on a oscillating mount moves alot more water than two of them on a multicontroller...and in all directions, not just one.

Id say more, but it looks like Flinger, and Rich took care of ya while I was away anyways.

hahnmeister · 07/20/2006, 10:40 PM

trmiv, how big is the space in between the two boxes? It looks like it might be enough to wedge a WavySea in there with a smaller tunze (which would most likely be enough in the center). But maybe that would not look good...dead center and all.

I put my oscillating mounts on the ends of the tank (I made them myself and put MJ1200 Streams on them). One is on a 1rpm motor and the other is a 1/3 rpm...so the currents get mixed up alot. They both turn about 90degrees, so that they aim behind the rocks for a while, then up front. The fish just love it.

07/20/2006, 03:35 PM	#31
Fliger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 8,642	Having had many many many many Tunzes over the years I find them worth the money, depending on your setup. But I do have to agree with Hans. An oscillating Stream does NOT provide a uni-directional flow - at least on my tank. My tank is 48L x 32W and the flow is incredible. It creates undertows and as the Stream turns, it fights with the undertows creating very random flow. I have a 6100 turning and haven't even been able to get past 2,000GPH. I can say that my SPS have never been happier - not even when I ran 2x6200's and 2x6100 w/a 7095. I have a second WS and I'm thinking of putting my return pump on that, it's probably 500 GPH and will just stir things up a little more. But yeah - Streams are great. They are awfully big though and that won't suit everyone's taste. I also have a couple Maxijet mods (from dhn & lutz) and they are nice but a little rough around the edges for looks. Very nice tho and better than a SEIO any day. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

07/20/2006, 03:40 PM	#32
Fliger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 8,642	Rich I'm sure the MJ mod beats a 6060 - but nowhere near a 6100. Trust me they are side by side as I type. ;-) The flow path of my MJ mods (both are 1200's) is nowhere near the Tunze. The control feature is on the 6000/6100/6200 is awesome, very natural and of course the feed option is great not just for feeding but for topdown views, moving rocks around, etc. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

07/20/2006, 04:00 PM	#38
Eric Boerner Coral Cutter Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,463	Oh yeah and forgot to mention in my validation of experience. I just sold 2 Sea Swirls that I used on my tank for 3 years on my closed loop. __________________ My opinions and views do not necessary reflect the views and opinions of my employer. Current Tank Info: 225 gallon SPS

07/20/2006, 04:03 PM	#39
Fliger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 8,642	Well I am with Rich/Hans/everyone else who's put an oscilating device with a Tunze on it, it is incredible. My SPS appreciate a nice firm bath every 30 seconds or so. There are absolutely zero dead spots because at one point in time of every minute - there is a Stream pointed at in every single direction of the tank. As a diver of 17 years now, its the most natural flow I've ever seen, with the possible exception of the Tunze Wave Machine. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

07/20/2006, 05:15 PM	#42
Fliger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 8,642	Hi, I am running the 6100 and its on a single controller. I've had the 7094 & 7095 so I miss some features, but the single is working just fine so far. I'm fine tuning my %'s - I had to ditch my Southdown and go with Caribsea Sea Floor. On my tank - just the one 6100 was making mountains out of the Southdown, and the flow was so random throughout every nook - I couldn't control it. I like the Sea Floor though. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

07/20/2006, 03:40 PM	#33
Yinger Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Yorba Linda Posts: 3,657	RichConley, how did you mod your Mjs? I'm thinking about putting some in my tank for additional flow

07/20/2006, 04:03 PM	#40
moebetter Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: costa mesa Posts: 61	you pay to get the best!!nonthing out there comes close to there quility and dependablity!!well worth every penny-and your corals will love you for it

07/20/2006, 05:18 PM	#43
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	I wish I could put my 6000 on an oscillating device. But I put horizontal overflows on my new tank, and didn't leave enough room on the back to hang anything, and the canopy prevents anything hanging on the side. __________________ Current tank: Red Sea Reefer 350 Deluxe, Avast Marine Pegleg 180 skimmer, Gyre 150, Eheim 1262 return

07/20/2006, 05:25 PM	#44
Fliger Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 8,642	You can do it with a Wavysea! You'd have to notch out a small portion of the inside lip, but I'm sure it would work. Check the Wavysea site for mounting, the entire thing sits INSIDE your tank except the outside portion of your mount. I had to notch out the wood when I ran this on an Oceanic 37G cube (just used a maxijet 1200). Super easy. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

07/20/2006, 05:30 PM	#45
trmiv Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,082	I still don't think I could get them to work on there. The overflows take up the entire back of the tank, and extend down into the tank. Nothing can be on the back of the tank at all. Good to keep in mind if you want this style overflows and want powerheads. I had a hard time making my tunze not stick out like a sore thumb on this setup too. Lesson here is kids, don't make your overflow go the entire length of the back of the tank if you ever want to use the back for anything. Here are my boxes:

07/20/2006, 07:33 PM	#48
Steven Pro Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 9,376	I wrote an article comparing a variety of pumps. You can read the full text here, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...rhead_comp.htm But, here are some graphs comparing Tunze Streams to Rio Seio's. __________________ Steven Pro, yep that is my real name. Current Tank Info: Twelve 600 gallon tubs located in a greenhouse

07/20/2006, 10:40 PM	#50
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	trmiv, how big is the space in between the two boxes? It looks like it might be enough to wedge a WavySea in there with a smaller tunze (which would most likely be enough in the center). But maybe that would not look good...dead center and all. I put my oscillating mounts on the ends of the tank (I made them myself and put MJ1200 Streams on them). One is on a 1rpm motor and the other is a 1/3 rpm...so the currents get mixed up alot. They both turn about 90degrees, so that they aim behind the rocks for a while, then up front. The fish just love it.