Are Tunze's worth the money?

[trmiv]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
trmiv, how big is the space in between the two boxes? It looks like it might be enough to wedge a WavySea in there with a smaller tunze (which would most likely be enough in the center). But maybe that would not look good...dead center and all.

I put my oscillating mounts on the ends of the tank (I made them myself and put MJ1200 Streams on them). One is on a 1rpm motor and the other is a 1/3 rpm...so the currents get mixed up alot. They both turn about 90degrees, so that they aim behind the rocks for a while, then up front. The fish just love it.

From that angle it does look possible, but when you see it from above, the center brace kills that idea.

[Pez Vela]

I think Tunze's for the most part are worth it too. But, my latest experience with the two I had has persuaded me to alter my water movement design. Just recently, and within one month of each other, my two Tunzes (each on single controllers) both crapped out. Not the actual pump, but the controller power box started "whining" and quit providing power and regulation of the variable pump output. At first I thought something must be wrong with the pump. I pulled them apart and thoroghly cleaned each one. That did not fix the problem. Since I was in the process of switching over to a glass aquarium from acrylic (whole other thread there), I decided to go with a closed loop with a Sequence Dart and Ocean Motions 4-Way. This provides me with complete control of many outlets into the aquarium @ my selected wave making sequence (based on the drum selected from OM). Yeah, it is probably more costly, both with equipment and wattage, but for me, it is worth it. Especially in a hobby that has not been "cheap" for my wallet from the start.

I think if you can afford Tunzes and do not want to go to the expense of an elaborate closed loop, then they are by far the best choice for the amount of water moved per watt and versatility of control IMO. I just had a bad experience which may be 1/1000, but it was enough to get me to open the wallet yet again.... But, I love this hobby! Do whatever works for you resulting in a healthy reef.

Mike

[Bojan]

Originally posted by RichConley
Thats completely incorrect. The seios can regulate speed. Thats what the controller for them is supposed to do, vary speed between 30 and 100%. It does not just turn them on and off.

Obviously my mistake.

I did not test SEIO DC version.

I tested only
TUNZE 6060 (AC version)
TUNZE 6000 and TUNZE 6100 (DC version)
and SIEO (actually MAREA 220V AC)

So, I do not know, how good are SEIO models , where speed can be regulated.

[TrojanScott]

There's a reason everyone with Tunze's love 'em, and most who don't have 'em wouldn't mind 'em.... they're awesome.

Big and ugly? I guess... mine are covered in coralline, just another pretty thing in my tank, at least that's how I look at 'em.

Tunze's are worth every cent.

[Conceyted]

Originally posted by Pez Vela
I think Tunze's for the most part are worth it too. But, my latest experience with the two I had has persuaded me to alter my water movement design. Just recently, and within one month of each other, my two Tunzes (each on single controllers) both crapped out. Not the actual pump, but the controller power box started "whining" and quit providing power and regulation of the variable pump output. At first I thought something must be wrong with the pump. I pulled them apart and thoroghly cleaned each one. That did not fix the problem. Since I was in the process of switching over to a glass aquarium from acrylic (whole other thread there), I decided to go with a closed loop with a Sequence Dart and Ocean Motions 4-Way. This provides me with complete control of many outlets into the aquarium @ my selected wave making sequence (based on the drum selected from OM). Yeah, it is probably more costly, both with equipment and wattage, but for me, it is worth it. Especially in a hobby that has not been "cheap" for my wallet from the start.

I think if you can afford Tunzes and do not want to go to the expense of an elaborate closed loop, then they are by far the best choice for the amount of water moved per watt and versatility of control IMO. I just had a bad experience which may be 1/1000, but it was enough to get me to open the wallet yet again.... But, I love this hobby! Do whatever works for you resulting in a healthy reef.

Mike

isnt there a 3 year warranty associated with all tunze products?

[oldimpala]

To me the big plus would be in being able to take the product out of the box, plug it in, and use it. Having to fabricate something is a big drawback in my opinion.

That's what I'm talking about... I'm not against fabrication; believe me.... I've built/modded/tweaked a million things in this, and my other hobby (Restoring old cars, and vintage racing), but sometimes, if I can just buy a product that works, and I don't have to mess with... My time is precious (As it is for many here, I'm sure), it's worth it just to WORK.

I'd gladly pay for the reliability, and plug-and-play use. Plus, since no one brought it up; their US Agent, Roger, is second to none in service...

Honestly, if I could get every product in my life to work like these Streams, I'd be golden..

-Andy/Oldimpala

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Eric Boerner
I have 4 MJ-900's in my 180g.
I have owned 2 Tunze 6080's.
I know reefers personally that have 6100's.
I just tored down a 4500 GPH closed loop on 6 eductors.
I have owned in the last 10 years probably every single powerhead and pump make on the market....

I stated... That I have not seen the Vortechs in person. They work on the same principle as the Tunze, are as expensive, cost the same in electricity, but can be used on a variable cycle.

Im not a fanboy sir... I happen to rely heavily on my MJ-900 mods at this time. They suffice perfectly for the flow pattern and rate that I need for the size of my tank.
Please read a post before flaming, BBTYVM...

I did read the post. You ranked the Vortechs above a whole bunch of things without having every used them. Thats exactly what I said. Last I heard, theyre still catching on fire like they were back at Macna/Nerac.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Eric Boerner
Tunze's will pay for themselves in 1.5 year (or less depending if you live in Calf or not), vs a closed loop system.

We did the math out in the SPS forum. 2x Tunze 6000 vs a Sequence Dart. It was more like 5 years.

[Philwd]

Hey Rich,
You flame people for not knowing what they are talking about. Yet you say the Vortechs are catching on fire everywhere. They are great pumps, I own two and they don't get anywhere even close to catching on fire. Please post on YOUR experiences.
I owned 2 Tunze 6000s before that on a 7500 controller and I loved them. I also owned 4 Seios; 820s and 1100s. The Tunzes blew them away. The Vortechs more so. I hope to go see Fliger's setup next week so I'll see how the Wavysea looks.

[Pez Vela]

We did the math out in the SPS forum. 2x Tunze 6000 vs a Sequence Dart. It was more like 5 years.

Actually, makes sense. I think Tunzes are approximately 63W each right? X 2 = 126W. Depending on head pressure, I think the Sequence Dart data sheet that came with my pump shows them running @ about 120W with comparable flow if not more. I don't know exactly how much water my two Tunzes put out but the Sequence has visually more movement, maybe due to the multi outlet configuration and random flow selector (drum) versus the stream of the Tunzes with variable power (controller). For me, the extra cost came in on the purchase of the Ocean Motion which is a must have IMO and extra plumbing needed whereas the Tunzes are "plug and play" as others have said.

Still just personal preference to me.

Mike

[James77]

Originally posted by RichConley
We did the math out in the SPS forum. 2x Tunze 6000 vs a Sequence Dart. It was more like 5 years.

You are wrong Rich. It is more like 2 1/2 years.
Sequence Dart plus plumbing- $260 from marinedepot
Tunze stream kit(2x6000 w/ multi- $760 from MD

Electricity @ $0.159/kwh
sequence dart(160 watts)- about $18.50 per month
Tunze 2x15watts intermittent- about $1.75 per month

The tunze stream kit is $540 more than the closed loop. The tunzes save you about $16.75 in electric each month.
$540 divided by $16.75= 32

32 months, RichConley, not 60. The tunze are covered under warranty for 3 years also. Get your facts right if you insist on nitpicking everyone.

[James77]

Originally posted by Pez Vela
Actually, makes sense. I think Tunzes are approximately 63W each right? X 2 = 126W. Depending on head pressure, I think the Sequence Dart data sheet that came with my pump shows them running @ about 120W with comparable flow if not more. I don't know exactly how much water my two Tunzes put out but the Sequence has visually more movement, maybe due to the multi outlet configuration and random flow selector (drum) versus the stream of the Tunzes with variable power (controller). For me, the extra cost came in on the purchase of the Ocean Motion which is a must have IMO and extra plumbing needed whereas the Tunzes are "plug and play" as others have said.

Still just personal preference to me.

Mike

The tunze 6000 are 15 watts each.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by James77
You are wrong Rich. It is more like 2 1/2 years.
Sequence Dart plus plumbing- $260 from marinedepot
Tunze stream kit(2x6000 w/ multi- $760 from MD

Electricity @ $0.159/kwh
sequence dart(160 watts)- about $18.50 per month
Tunze 2x15watts intermittent- about $1.75 per month

The tunze stream kit is $540 more than the closed loop. The tunzes save you about $16.75 in electric each month.
$540 divided by $16.75= 32

32 months, RichConley, not 60. The tunze are covered under warranty for 3 years also. Get your facts right if you insist on nitpicking everyone.

THis is the post from the SPS forum. Electricity is $.12/kwh in the guy I was talking to's area.

While I completely agree with your point, the sequence Dart would be a better comparison. Theres no reason to use the much bigger 4300. Its a closed loop, you dont need the extra head height.
You're $.12 a kwh is really cheap, but the dart looks like this:
Sequence Dart - 140w - 1800gph *2 =$219 + $147/year
=$807.

The tunze actual cost is 761, because you need the controller, so total tunze cost is
=761+ 128 =$889, so slightly more expensive than running the Sequence dart, for the same flow. If you really want to save money, look at the non controllable tunzes.

6060 = 2x11w - $270 initial + $23/year for a 4 year total of $362

or...

2 x maximod900 (1500gph @ 6w) $80 initial (as low as $40), $12 yearly, for a 4 year total of $128

Theres huge money to be saved in stream style pumps, but the controllable tunzes you're looking 5 years minimum for any real payback.






I also NEVER said that tunzes didnt have warranty, so stop trying to say I'm not "getting my facts straight".

The sequence dart has a 3 year warranty too.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Philwd
Hey Rich,
You flame people for not knowing what they are talking about. Yet you say the Vortechs are catching on fire everywhere. They are great pumps, I own two and they don't get anywhere even close to catching on fire. Please post on YOUR experiences.

Phil, they were burning up in the initial demos at the trade shows.. I still havent heard of anything they did to fix that. I'm sure theyre great pumps, but the poster I was talking too was making comments about them without ever having seen, or used them. Thats not helpful in any way.

His oppinion (and mine) on the vortex is completely irrelevant, because its not based in any experience.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by James77
No RichConley, you are wrong, do not try to assume what I have seen because you disagree with my post. I have seen two seaswirls at my LFS tank- not bad, it does not compare to the amount of flow I see in my tank. Then again, neither were the better-than-sliced-bread MJ mod- Im sure it would have made all the difference.

James, a seaswirl is in NO WAY close to what I was talking about. I'm talking about an oscillating stream pump. A 1500+ gph stream style pump that rotates 90 degrees every 30 seconds or so.

2 3000gph oscillating pumps is MUCH more impressive than 2 3000gph going from 30%-100%.

Basically, In the area the fixed pump covers, you get 30-100%. With the oscillating pump, you get about 30-100%. 100% when its facing that way, some indeterminate amount when its facing off at an angle. Because its not ramping down, you get MUCH more flow, but the same effect. You have to see it, but its ridiculous.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by Steven Pro
To me the big plus would be in being able to take the product out of the box, plug it in, and use it. Having to fabricate something is a big drawback in my opinion.

I agree Steven.

I look at the straight out of the box thing as being nice, but is it cost effective?

It takes me roughly 30 minutes to mod a maxi900 to do 2000+ gph. It takes about $7 in parts for a total of $25. A tunze 6060 gives slightly less flow for $135.

For 30 minutes of work(that I enjoy), I save $110. I dont make $220/hr, so in this case, my time ISNT valuable enough to justify buying any more tunzes.


THe tunzes are great pumps, dont get me wrong. I just think that for anyone wiht any DIY skills, the cost/benefit payoff just isnt there. That being said, I also have a smaller tank (58g) so having a 6" long tunze in my tank is ugly, and I really want to get rid of it, especially when its only moving 2/3 of what the much smaller maxijets are moving, and is banked cash that I could use elsewhere.

[crumbletop]

Originally posted by RichConley
I just think that for anyone wiht any DIY skills, the cost/benefit payoff just isnt there.

Around 30 people in our club tried them out, and out of that only a few have them working / are using them. Several of the failed pumps were made by some heavy duty DIYers...

[Conceyted]

Originally posted by RichConley

Basically, In the area the fixed pump covers, you get 30-100%. With the oscillating pump, you get about 30-100%. 100% when its facing that way, some indeterminate amount when its facing off at an angle. Because its not ramping down, you get MUCH more flow, but the same effect. You have to see it, but its ridiculous.

Dude your posts make little to no sense. I think I can understand what you are trying to say but re-read what you just typed.

[hahnmeister]

trmiv...looks like the WavySea is light enough to mount right on the overflow box...look at the 3rd pic down. Maybe conatcting them would yeild a solution. Or, just find a way to mount one or two of them on the end(s) of the tank.

Otherwise...

WavySea $239, or a modded SeaSwirl (you could use a small 1/2" model if you wanted, or up to the 1" model) that will run $125-185...unless you have one already or can find a used one.

Add a Tunze Stream for anywhere from $137-332 (unless you want the big boy 6200 for $450, but really, you can get away cheap by using the AC models which dont need a wavemaker, but they only go up to 2000gph....this might be enough for many though. Heck, w/o the need for a wavemaker, you could use a SEIO 1500 or 2600 and still compete with some of the TUNZE's outputs. Anyways, for about $300, you can get the equal of having two tunzes and a multicontroller by simply using an oscillating mount like the WavySea.

I was planning my next tank like this...maybe a 4'x4'x2'h 240g with nothing but two Tunze 6100s or 6200s on WavySea devices on the back of the tank providing all kinds of criss-cross flow.

But all together, I can see

[RichConley]

What I was trying to say, is that when the oscillating pump is facing at a 45' angle, you're still getting some good percentage of flow at the original 90' point. If you were to just watch that 90' point, the flow ramps up and down. The difference is, while the controlled Tunze is at 30%, and the rotatating pump is off axis, you're both getting 30%straight ahead, but now you're also getting 100% off to the side from the rotating pump.

You get the same effect as the Tunze controller gives you, but at a much higher magnitude.

Basically, with a fixed pump that ramps up and down, you get oscillating flow at 1 axis. When you start moving the pump, you get oscillating flow in a 90-180' arc, which is much more effective.

[trmiv]

When the wavysea rotates the tunze directly at the front glass, doesn't it blow the hell out of the sand in the front of the tank?

[RichConley]

Originally posted by trmiv
When the wavysea rotates the tunze directly at the front glass, doesn't it blow the hell out of the sand in the front of the tank?

If you've got a really narrow tank, most likely.

've got a DIY "swirler stein" rotating a maximod. The maximod has a very short shroud, so it moves water in a MUCH wider pattern than a tunze does. (My 6060 seems to still hold about a 2-3" pattern at 12-18", wheras the maximod has a much wider flow) I dont use southdown, I use kolorscape, which has a much larger granual size, so it doesnt kick up all that much.

The tunze doesnt hit the glass because its facing rocks.

[trmiv]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
trmiv...looks like the WavySea is light enough to mount right on the overflow box...look at the 3rd pic down. Maybe conatcting them would yeild a solution. Or, just find a way to mount one or two of them on the end(s) of the tank.

Possibly, but I'd hate to find out they won't work after spending the money on them. I'd have to sell my 6000 to be able to afford a wavysea.

[RichConley]

trmiv, you can put together one of the DIY swirlersteins for maybe $20. Give it a try, and if you like the effect, and still want something more 'polished' then buy the wavysea.

[trmiv]

Nice idea, but trust me, me and DIY involving electricity is likely not a good idea.