Is this realistic?

[Stoneburg]

Hi.

I just stumbled upon this site while searching the net for information about aquariums of different kinds. My girlfriend and I want to get ourselves a tank, but not the ordinary kind, and this looks like place with a lot of extrordinary tank owners. Maybe you could give me some guidance and advice, or just tell me what a stupid and unrealistic idea it is.

I would like a tank with different sorts of sea creatures in it. More specifically, and in order of importance:

- Cephalopods. I love these creatures. A squid or octopus preferably. However, I have no idea if there are species that are small enough or what it would take.

- Sea horses. This would be my girlfriends main fascination.

- Amphibian, preferably a small turtle. From what I understand only reeves turtles, spotted turtles, diamond back terrapins and musk turtles are "small". I mean small is in at most 5 inches long when adult. If this isn't possible, then a frog or salamander would be an option.

- Anemones and simmilar animals.

- Fish. Preferably interesting-looking ones.

The idea is to build a tank that has a small 'island' where an amphibian could live, but where the rest of the tank mainly made up of reef.

Other than a small freshwater tank as a child I have no experience or knowledge on this matter, so all help and advice is greatly appreciated.


edit: The tank will be at *most* 100x50x60 cm, so that would be 300 litres.

[sir_dudeguy]

WELCOME TO REEFCENTRAL (i'm sure someone else will post the purple fish but i dont know how to so you got lucky...so far lol)

anyways, you wont be able to keep any turtles. The only sea turtles i know about are way too big for aquariums, and need a huge mass of water to swim in...and i belive they need land too...which an aquarium cant supply both.

and i dont know of any other amphibians that can go in saltwater..i believe there is some sort of salamander, but again, they require land....which would look weird in a saltwater tank.

cephalopods...theres a section on here for them, so check that out. I knwo people keep some octopi, but i dont knwo what kind, and i do know they're short lived, and only live a year or so in aquariums. so imo they arent really practical unless you plan on buying a new one every 2 years or whatever...i'm sure others will dissagree but yeah.

oh, i just read the bit about the island so i guess amphibians can be possible...but how large is the tank gonna be?

[z_rivers]

it would be hard to keep an octapus with anything else due to the risk of it eating everything. there is no strictly marine amphibian, but there are some frogs that do live in brackish water. turtles would be impossible to keep in a small tank due to feeding and swimming requirements. i would think of some other idea of what you want to keep, since the current plan you have wont work out in the end.

[Twisted]

There are several types of octopi that you can purchase for a home aquarium, some being only 8-10 inches, and some getting much bigger, some are extremely venemous so you must learn to keep your hands out.

Something elese you may want to consider is a cuddlefish, they are sort of a squid I guess, I just read about them so afraid I can't tell you much, other then if spooked they do ink, and if your filter does not pull the ink out fast enough it will kill stuff in the tank.

You also might want to look into the variety of eels, there are some beautiful ones out there.

[Twisted]

Oh and seahorses are everywhere and range in prices, some are easier to care for then others, and they suggest you only put them in with pipefish and such. You can even buy dwarf ones.

[Rjukan]

Hi there, welcome to RC.

I have to say, no this isnt realistic but it is fun to dream about

- Cephalopods: dont even think about them, they are for very advanced hobbyists at best. They are escape artists from what I have read and need a very high water quality.

- Sea horses: they are definitly a possibility once your system has been running for several months to a year. I know people have kept them in their fuges to some success. But again they are considered mostly for the advanced hobbyist.

Amphibian, preferably a small turtle: again like the cephalopod, dont think about it. Its a really cool idea but they release a lot of toxins in the form of waste to the water, besides the obvious size issue.

- Anemones and simmilar animal: once your tank is established and running for several months you will be able to have an anemone of some kind depending on your lighting and bio load.

- Fish. Preferably interesting-looking ones: No problem there

Again, the island idea is a cool dream, but unless budget isnt an option and or your a long long time reefer, its just not practical. Good luck and read up here, if you want to search for something just use yahoo or google and look for the RC entry there.

[Twisted]

Oh as far as interesting fish, check out the "Flashlight fish" I think www.liveaquaria.com had them They are spendy, but cool.

They have little pouches under there eyes that carry a bacteria that puts out a light, and the fish has the ability to turn this pouch on and off. I really want one, but my tank is only about 5 weeks old, so going to wait awhile.

[Stoneburg]

Thanks for the response so far.

- Amphibians. As I said, the plan is to have an 'island' where some amphibian can live. Obiously it can't be too big (re-occuring theme). Any amphibian is fine though I would prefer a small turtle.

- Octopus. Well, squid or cuttlefish is fine too. It can't be too big obviously, preferaly 10 inches or smaller in length. If it eats the other stuff, I can live with that, hopefully I'll find *something* it won't eat (turtles!).

- Size of tank. This isn't set yet but the limit is a little over 100 centimeters in length and 50 cm in depth due to furniture etc. I'd guess this makes it somewhere between 150 and 300 litres.

- Fish. Some cool eels would be great. I was also planning to have some 'uncool' fish (think 'guppy') as live food for the cephalopod or other predators.

[Stoneburg]

I don't anticipate a huge problem getting an 'island'. A friend of mine used to work at a terrarium as well as have several reptiles at home, and some amphibians. He built several islands of the type I am considering.

[Tat2d]

To Reef Central

[ejaustin]

I don't see a problem with having an island. It sounds like a cool concept, but difficult with saltwater livestock. If you're really set on the amphibian island, you might consider freshwater instead. You'll have a much larger selection of turtles, amphibians, and frogs that might work in your set-up.

Good luck.

ej

[spineshank385]

150-300L (roughly 40-80 gallons) is WAAAY too small for the kind of thing you want to do.

As noted before, it is not feasible. Turtles will not work, cephalopods will not work (it seems like you are relatively new to this sort of thing), seahorses will work ONLY in a species specific tank. Fish and anemones are about the only thing i can recommend for now, but hold off on the anemone for a while.

On a side note, if you ask for advice on something, and then you continue to follow through even after everyone has given their $.02 against the idea, what was the point in asking for everyone's opinions anyway?

[spineshank385]

also, even if you got this all set up, within 2 weeks, you would either be left with a turtle or an octopus. nothing else.

My vote goes for the turtle

[Stoneburg]

Originally posted by spineshank385
it seems like you are relatively new to this sort of thing

What tipped you off?

Originally posted by Stoneburg
I have no experience or knowledge on this matter

[Twisted]

Originally posted by spineshank385
150-300L (roughly 40-80 gallons) is WAAAY too small for the kind of thing you want to do.

I don't see how that tank size is waaaay to small...

Bobtail squids: up to 2inches in length.
mim aquarium size: 50gal


octopuses bimaculatus, briareus, joubini.
up to 8 inches

min aquarium size 20gal


Blue ringed octopus.
up to 10inches
min tank size 10gal
WARNING! Venomous, potentialy deadly, no anti venom currently available! Not for amateurs!

There are a few options for what you want to do. All of those thing are for more experienced caretakers, but options none the less.
If you plan on keeping a small tank, you might also consider a mantis shrimp, while they have never been that interesting to me, it may be because I have done little study on them, but a lot of people seem to keep them.

As far as turtles, you may want to consider just a couple of red eared sliders, you can get them at any pet store and they make pretty cool pets.
You can take a basic 55 gallon tank fill it with water about 2/3 of the way then put a floating turtle dock in there for them. Throw in a few gold fish for them to eat and they are happy as can be.

[spineshank385]

he wants to do all those things in one tank.

turtle waste + octopus waste + anemone(s) + fish + seahorses + newbie = distaster

[spineshank385]

and also, there is no way i would stick an 8" animal into a 20g aquarium...that is just crazy...imagine being trapped into a 10'x10' box your whole life?

not sure where you got your numbers from but i cant say i agree

[Twisted]

I got my numbers from the Marine Invertabrates book by Ronald L Shimek Phd.

It is a great refrence book.

I agree all these things in one tank is impossible, even any two of these items in one tank would probablly either kill each other, or there would only be one survivor.

But any one of these ideas would be a nice pet. Like I said other then the red eared slider turtles, none of the octopuses, and stuff are suggested for begineers.

I myself plan on getting a 20 gallon or so tank and setting up for an octopus but not for a long time, I am still new and need to get down the water stability a bit more before I venture into something that requires perfect water.

[Twisted]

And that 8in animal is a diameter measurment, tip to tip, and you know how much an octo can stretch, I am sure most of the time he is half that size.

And with an octopus from what I have read, other then a sand bed, and a rock for him to hide in, there should be nothing in the tank with him, so he would have a lot of room to move.

[Sk8r]

Alas, you're going to need a tank room in your place, and set up a reef tank to learn on, a seahorse tank, a cephalopod tank, and a freshwater with an island, turtles, etc.

The reason an island won't work in saltwater is that 'salt creep' is not to scale. You can miniaturize a lot of things, but if you try to have anything abovewater, the splash of the necessary pumps [which are quite strong] will drive saltwater up and over, and a crust of salt [which is hard on things below it] will continually break off and bomb all below. The mh lighting we use is stronger than turtles will like.
My advice is move to Atlanta or Seattle so you can enjoy big public tanks with the creatures you can't readily keep [Seattle's got all you want, right down to the turtles, with otters thrown in] and your home tank can be something like a 55 seahorse tank, which would keep you plenty busy.

[techrach]

[welcom]

[techrach]

Oops!

To Reef Central

[Stoneburg]

I think you misunderstand. I don't have to have all those things. It is a wish list. If two of them would work I'd be happy enough, one would be a bit disappointing.

Keeping a 20cm octopus in a 100x50 cm tank hardly compares to me living in a 10'x 10' box. More like a 12x6m apartment, which is pretty much exactly what I live in... and he can move upwards and downwards too!

So salt and island is a bad combination? Dangit. I appreciate the suggestion to move to Seattle but my girlfriend would probably be upset if I suggested we move from Sweden just so I can be closer to seaworld.

Since she likes seahorses and I like cephalopods, any way to get those two to work together? And what is a good cephalopod for newbies? Small and hardy would be good qualities (obviously I prefer octopuses to squids and cuttlefish).

Or is cephalopods just too ambitious and I should settle for seahorses and some interesting fish (like eel)?

[Iam]

same here.. my girlfriend is a huge seahorse fan.. I have a 60g.. but you can't keep the seahorses with any other fish.. due to eating problems.. you'll see when you get them they eat verry slow..so by the time they have a bite or two all other fish will finish the food..
I finally went with another 30gallon for only seahorses and some inv. BUT NO OTHER FISH...
I know some people would say otherwise but this is what i observed..

[z_rivers]

like I said above, if you want to do a reef with an island, you will not be able to use ANY amphibian (turtles are reptiles not amphibians). there are a few species of brackish frogs, but their salinity is much lower than what a reef is. doing both is going to kill one or the other. as far as the turtle goes, I'm pretty sure its illegal to own any turtles as a pets unless your licensed. having an octopus will be fine, if its by itself, putting anything else in a tank the sizes you were thinking of will become food in a shirt period of time. sea horses will be ok also but are difficult to care for and aren't recommended as beginner pets, even experts have lots of problems with them. take my and everyone else's advice for what its worth, in the end its up to you for what you plan on doing. just trying to save you disappointment and money.