Is 12 Fish For A 65 Gallon Managable? - Page 2

RichConley · 08/08/2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nickterp
I would also like to recommend RichConley that if you have a differing opinion for a newbie you post it in a more constructive matter for the guy that started the thread.

Basically you didn't offer the original poster any help at all.

How about something like: "While I don't condone keeping Tangs in a tank that small, you should not necesarily worry about the exact "number" of fish in a tank. If they are properly sized and your filtration equipment is very overrated for your tank size than you can get away with some slight overstocking. For instance you could add on the and a sump/refugium for extra water volume"

Why dont you actually READ the thread, and look at my first post:

Quote:

I dont see 12 fish in a 65 being a problem, I do see the Sargassum trigger and yellow tang as being a problem. The yellow will get to 8-10" and the sargassum just as big. They really shouldnt be in anything less that a 6' tank.

That looks pretty dang close to what you suggested I say.

Reef_bones · 08/08/2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nickterp

Just an idea.... No point in just flaming people in the middle of a thread without offering real help.

At times I think he just follows my post and takes the opposite side of the field just to do it.

Part of the reasn I left RC years ago was due to the know it alls, with little advice and alot of argue...

RichConley · 08/08/2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reef_bones
Go ahead and stretch it how ever you need to best fit your arguement. You show me the site that says put the Vlamingi in a 75.

Heres one, (Marinecenter) thats pretty well respected, that says put a vlamingi in a 55.

http://www.marinecenter.com/fish/tangs/vlamingitang/

RichConley · 08/08/2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cobs00
So if a Sargassum trigger is too big of a bio-load in a 65G, would a 75G be better? Also what if I were to add a lawnmower blennie instead of a sargassum...would that be better?

Cobbs, the issue with the sargassum has nothing to do with bioload, and everything to do with the 10"+ size these fish get to.

nickterp · 08/08/2006, 01:04 PM

OK OK, I think any more arguing between each other should be done over PM

. Didn't see your first post Rich. But you did start picking the fight first by addressing that guy directly in your second post

. Lets leave the rest of this post for advice to the poster only.

Good luck!

RichConley · 08/08/2006, 01:18 PM

Nick, my 2nd post was in responce to this:

Quote:

Your facing possibly losing all your fish. To put it frankly, an overloaded tank as your already boarders on with out any addition will be more likely to develop stress induced disease like ick. It will also be more likely that your tank will be fine then just suddenly take a dive. I'VE BEEN THERE and done that, LFS felt so bad they gave me a T-Shirt.

Is it worth it to make the risk greater for failure just to look at a few new fish?

Theres a reason I lashed out at that post. Its all "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS MY WAY OR ALL YOUR FISH WILL DIE". How is that helpful?

"To put it frankly, an overloaded tank as your already boarders on with out any addition will be more likely to develop stress induced disease like ick"

My tank is more overloaded than his, and like I said, I've never had ick. Reefbones is making all sorts of claims there that aren't backed up by anything.

nickterp · 08/08/2006, 01:42 PM

Sorry Rich, your first post was very helpful, I should have noticed it.

Basically yeah, that kind of sudden crash will only happen in a tank with "new tank syndrome" or if you add too many fish at once and your bacteria is no where near handling the bio-load... in other words the ammonia and stuff builds up so fast it kills the fish.

Absolutely if you add everything slow enough, have good filtration, frequent water changes, etc, you can overstock your aquarium some.

However, I strongly suggest for newbies, and even myself as i'm only a little over a year and a half into the reef hobby... that we stay within suggested parameters to make things easier on ourselves. This will also give us time to understand the hobby better and avoid future mistakes. I think rushing into things and making mistakes is one of the biggest reasons reef keeping loses alot of people practicing it. Just my thoughts

.

Good luck!

Reef_bones · 08/08/2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
Nick, my 2nd post was in responce to this:

Theres a reason I lashed out at that post. Its all "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS MY WAY OR ALL YOUR FISH WILL DIE". How is that helpful?

"To put it frankly, an overloaded tank as your already boarders on with out any addition will be more likely to develop stress induced disease like ick"

My tank is more overloaded than his, and like I said, I've never had ick. Reefbones is making all sorts of claims there that aren't backed up by anything.

The point you seem to miss in all this....ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR TANK!!!!

I never said do it my way...I said I wouldn't add anymore fish..

You always jump right in and rip on people... Its all you know how to do...How many people in this thread had told him it wasn't a good idea. Yet he still kept looking for the answer he wanted to hear...Thanks to you he heard it...Now some fish will probably die because maybe he doesn't have the same bullet proof set-up you have...Which from your post in various other threads changes like the wind.....Do me a favor DON'T REPOND TO ME AGIAN... I was posting to the author of the thread when YOU singled me out... This isn't the first time you have done it either.....

Good day!

Sk8r · 08/08/2006, 03:13 PM

Try this: Get a ruler and a pair of scissors, some paper, and some tape. Look up the adult size of each fish, and [most people aren't artists] just cut out any old shape that's the right length and general shape---and label them. Tack it onto your aquarium front. Add the next. Pull off the ones that aren't going to look real happy in there, or whose rapid movement will crowd the others. That will end up with a viable tank. It's the best way I know to visualize the end result of a stocking decision...because most of your fish will live for at least a decade if you take good care, growing all the while.

ACBlinky · 08/08/2006, 03:20 PM

Cobbs -- I'd remove the regal tang; one big fish (YT) in a 65g is enough to handle. I wouldn't add anything else, but if you really want a blenny maybe get one of the slightly smaller ones like a bicolour.

I have 11 fish in my 65g: a flagfin angel, CB, flame angel, whitetailed pygmy angel, neon dottyback, pixy hawkfish, yellow clown goby, Talbot's damsel, fourstripe damsel, SouthSeas damsel and a Lubbock's fairy wrasse. They're all small now and levels are great, but I have plans to upgrade to a 120g or even 150g in the future, to accomodate the flagfin.

RichConley · 08/08/2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reef_bones
The point you seem to miss in all this....ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR TANK!!!!

I never said do it my way...I said I wouldn't add anymore fish..

And the point you miss, is its not about your tank either. Just because you lost a couple fish, doesnt mean he will.

ricks · 08/08/2006, 03:58 PM

I'm sure glad I got out when I did.........

cobs00 · 08/08/2006, 04:02 PM

Ok...... Let me take a deep breath here! Lot's of information here today that I am thankful for. There is truth to the fact that I am looking for that right answer to justify my purchase. The thing is that on my many frequent visits to marine forums and also visiting trusted LFS I come across lots of opinions and very little facts. Almost every response on these forums are from experience of the aquarist over the years. I know there is recommedations and rules to the hobby, that many break, I just want to get a feel from people.

One questions that comes up is that are the majority of my responses from people who have done what I am doing or from what they have heard from someone else? I'm not trying to cause a crap storm, I just want to feel out the responses, and then make my decision.

I have succesfully been able to raise a .5 inch blue tang to it's current size of 3 inches. Majority of people would say that it will die that small and can't be done.

I have also been able to have my Astrea snails mate and produce dozens of healthy snails. Most poeple would say that this is virtualy impossible.

I started my aquarium with a 10 G tank that was very successful. Most people would say that it's a big problem and I'm at risk of losing everything.

I could go on and on, but I think I'm getting my point accross. That's why I said if I practice good husbandry skills.

As I write this email, I'm getting pictures of some members tanks similar to mine with4 or 5 tangs in their tank with many other fish. So please understand my confusion.

Angel*Fish · 08/08/2006, 04:12 PM

cobs00- since you openly and freely identify yourself as a newbie,

Here's my $.02 And these guys are already worked up, BTW, so I'm going to get flamed for my opinion

First, if you're going to push the general bioload recommendations, probably you should wait until you have passed beyond the newbie stage.

Second, as someone mentioned you already have some bad husbandry issues going on in your tank. IMO for "pushing the bioload" kinds of tanks ONLY

it's bad husbandry to keep certain fish.
The bad candidates in your tank would be the 6-line wrasse & the sleeper goby.
They eat organisms that are beneficial to your system - if you want a higher than normal bioload, the last thing you need is fish who are going consume small inverts. The wrasse will reduce your pods to almost zilch and the sleeper goby will do the same for your worms and other sand dwellers.

I have 27 fish in my 100g but it has taken time to learn how to accomplish this successfully. All my fish are small, but there's more to it than size. For example my rockwork is free standing. This tank would not work if it wasn't.

One thing I found helpful was to grab a fish book at the LFS instead of a fish - I recommend anything by Scott Michael

PS. Lawnmower blennies get quite large and not all bluethroats are safe with your fish - either fish would be adding a lot of bioload, at least down the road

jasper24 · 08/08/2006, 04:25 PM

Let's all get 20 fish and put them in a 20G tank so that our sps will do better. Sounds like a great plan. Who cares if the fish suffer right? Ridiculous.

Angel*Fish · 08/08/2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sk8r
Try this: Get a ruler and a pair of scissors, some paper, and some tape. Look up the adult size of each fish, and [most people aren't artists] just cut out any old shape that's the right length and general shape---and label them. Tack it onto your aquarium front. Add the next. Pull off the ones that aren't going to look real happy in there, or whose rapid movement will crowd the others. That will end up with a viable tank. It's the best way I know to visualize the end result of a stocking decision...because most of your fish will live for at least a decade if you take good care, growing all the while.

That is a great suggestion - should be stickied somewhere!

Quote:

Originally posted by jasper24
Let's all get 20 fish and put them in a 20G tank so that our sps will do better. Sounds like a great plan. Who cares if the fish suffer right? Ridiculous.

Who's recommending he or anyone overstock? I sense a thread skimmer here..

08/08/2006, 03:13 PM	#34
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Try this: Get a ruler and a pair of scissors, some paper, and some tape. Look up the adult size of each fish, and [most people aren't artists] just cut out any old shape that's the right length and general shape---and label them. Tack it onto your aquarium front. Add the next. Pull off the ones that aren't going to look real happy in there, or whose rapid movement will crowd the others. That will end up with a viable tank. It's the best way I know to visualize the end result of a stocking decision...because most of your fish will live for at least a decade if you take good care, growing all the while. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

08/08/2006, 03:20 PM	#35
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	Cobbs -- I'd remove the regal tang; one big fish (YT) in a 65g is enough to handle. I wouldn't add anything else, but if you really want a blenny maybe get one of the slightly smaller ones like a bicolour. I have 11 fish in my 65g: a flagfin angel, CB, flame angel, whitetailed pygmy angel, neon dottyback, pixy hawkfish, yellow clown goby, Talbot's damsel, fourstripe damsel, SouthSeas damsel and a Lubbock's fairy wrasse. They're all small now and levels are great, but I have plans to upgrade to a 120g or even 150g in the future, to accomodate the flagfin. __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

08/08/2006, 04:02 PM	#38
cobs00 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 409	Ok...... Let me take a deep breath here! Lot's of information here today that I am thankful for. There is truth to the fact that I am looking for that right answer to justify my purchase. The thing is that on my many frequent visits to marine forums and also visiting trusted LFS I come across lots of opinions and very little facts. Almost every response on these forums are from experience of the aquarist over the years. I know there is recommedations and rules to the hobby, that many break, I just want to get a feel from people. One questions that comes up is that are the majority of my responses from people who have done what I am doing or from what they have heard from someone else? I'm not trying to cause a crap storm, I just want to feel out the responses, and then make my decision. I have succesfully been able to raise a .5 inch blue tang to it's current size of 3 inches. Majority of people would say that it will die that small and can't be done. I have also been able to have my Astrea snails mate and produce dozens of healthy snails. Most poeple would say that this is virtualy impossible. I started my aquarium with a 10 G tank that was very successful. Most people would say that it's a big problem and I'm at risk of losing everything. I could go on and on, but I think I'm getting my point accross. That's why I said if I practice good husbandry skills. As I write this email, I'm getting pictures of some members tanks similar to mine with4 or 5 tangs in their tank with many other fish. So please understand my confusion. __________________ 250 Red Sea Max in the works

08/08/2006, 04:12 PM	#39
Angel*Fish cats and large squashes Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 5,951 Blog Entries: 1	cobs00- since you openly and freely identify yourself as a newbie, Here's my $.02 And these guys are already worked up, BTW, so I'm going to get flamed for my opinion First, if you're going to push the general bioload recommendations, probably you should wait until you have passed beyond the newbie stage. Second, as someone mentioned you already have some bad husbandry issues going on in your tank. IMO for "pushing the bioload" kinds of tanks ONLY it's bad husbandry to keep certain fish. The bad candidates in your tank would be the 6-line wrasse & the sleeper goby. They eat organisms that are beneficial to your system - if you want a higher than normal bioload, the last thing you need is fish who are going consume small inverts. The wrasse will reduce your pods to almost zilch and the sleeper goby will do the same for your worms and other sand dwellers. I have 27 fish in my 100g but it has taken time to learn how to accomplish this successfully. All my fish are small, but there's more to it than size. For example my rockwork is free standing. This tank would not work if it wasn't. One thing I found helpful was to grab a fish book at the LFS instead of a fish - I recommend anything by Scott Michael PS. Lawnmower blennies get quite large and not all bluethroats are safe with your fish - either fish would be adding a lot of bioload, at least down the road __________________ Marie So long, & thanks for all the fish! __________________________ Current Tank Info: Pairs: flame angels, cherub angels, Red Sea mimic blennies, yellow fin fairy wrasses, clowns, mandarins, blackcap basslets, shrimp gobies, damsels, dispar anthias, yellow clown gobies, threadfin cardinals --- Tanks: 100g reef, 2 x 30g refugiums

08/08/2006, 01:04 PM	#30
nickterp Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 263	OK OK, I think any more arguing between each other should be done over PM . Didn't see your first post Rich. But you did start picking the fight first by addressing that guy directly in your second post . Lets leave the rest of this post for advice to the poster only. Good luck!

08/08/2006, 01:42 PM	#32
nickterp Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 263	Sorry Rich, your first post was very helpful, I should have noticed it. Basically yeah, that kind of sudden crash will only happen in a tank with "new tank syndrome" or if you add too many fish at once and your bacteria is no where near handling the bio-load... in other words the ammonia and stuff builds up so fast it kills the fish. Absolutely if you add everything slow enough, have good filtration, frequent water changes, etc, you can overstock your aquarium some. However, I strongly suggest for newbies, and even myself as i'm only a little over a year and a half into the reef hobby... that we stay within suggested parameters to make things easier on ourselves. This will also give us time to understand the hobby better and avoid future mistakes. I think rushing into things and making mistakes is one of the biggest reasons reef keeping loses alot of people practicing it. Just my thoughts . Good luck!

08/08/2006, 03:58 PM	#37
ricks Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: portland,or Posts: 906	I'm sure glad I got out when I did.........

08/08/2006, 04:25 PM	#40
jasper24 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 2,120	Let's all get 20 fish and put them in a 20G tank so that our sps will do better. Sounds like a great plan. Who cares if the fish suffer right? Ridiculous.