Cloudy Water - Page 2

nach_ · 08/04/2006, 04:10 PM

Well things are getting better very slowly. I hope that in some days the water will be ok. Anyway, why happened this?, I've never got any problems adding the salt to the aquarium. Any clue?

jdieck · 08/04/2006, 04:48 PM

I tought you had gone to sleep by now!

It could have been many things, colder than normal water, precipitation of Magnesium Chloride from the salt mix (somtimes they just over shoot it) but my best bet could have been that the moisture content in the salt might have been high, that might make some of the components to react like Sodium Chloride and Sodim Carbonate to form Calcium carbonate or Calcium Hydroxide with CO2 in the air to form also Calcium Carbonate etc.

nach_ · 08/04/2006, 08:19 PM

Things are not really getting better. It was the afternoon light or something but I can say that it's exactly the same as yesterday.

Some extra info:

Salinity: 1024-1025
PH: (not very well measured) around 7
KH: around 10
In the bottom I can see now some white particles. I keep removing them.

If it will be useful, I'll measure calcium.

Thankyou very much!

jdieck · 08/04/2006, 09:21 PM

PH seems check Calcium and Magnesium. Very low PH may indicate a precipitation event but a KH of 10 after precipitation is possible but not likely unless the PH drop enough to stop it.

Any way you can get a better test of the PH?
Did you added anything else than water and the salt mix?

nach_ · 08/04/2006, 09:39 PM

I didnt add anything else. Tomorrow I will check mg and Ca. I will try to get a better ph test so.

jdieck · 08/04/2006, 10:05 PM

If you still have some of the salt you may want to prepare a sample of a couple of gallons and test the sample just to insure the salt was not defective. If you are going to the fish store you can take a sample of your water and have them test it for you also.

nach_ · 08/05/2006, 02:13 AM

Ok, with the day light things seem to look better..

Calcium: 520
Magnesium:1180

That's all, I dont have a good ph test but with the strip test it's around 7,5-8.

Thankyou again!

jdieck · 08/05/2006, 03:01 AM

High Calcium and High Alkalinity suggest there was precipitation.
Either salinity was high or the salt is defective.
How are you measuring salinity? Do you have a refractometer?

nach_ · 08/05/2006, 03:08 AM

Yes, I have a refractometer and I'm sure that the salinity is 1024.

I think I will wait until Monday and then, if the water is still cloudy I will change it totally...

jdieck · 08/05/2006, 03:21 AM

Then I can venture (So pena de equivocarme) to say that the salt might be defective.
In such a case there is no problem with the water you have but you can use a mechanical filter (foam or fiber) to remove the particles.
If you have a skimmer it can also help remove the particles, to have it perform better and give it a kick start you can add 1/4 tsp a day of water conditioner that contains slime coat or similar stuff, do not use more as your skimmer will foam like crazy, you may need to re-adjust the skimmer for a dryer foam.

By the way, low Magnesium may indicate precipitation of Magnesium Chloride as well.
Just in case, did you added the salt to the water or the water to the salt?
I will again recomend that you prepare a water sample using the salt and have it tested by the store were you purchased the salt.
(Quien quite y con suerte te regresen tu dinero)

Now I'm going to bed.

Suerte!

nach_ · 08/05/2006, 03:44 AM

Thankyou very much.

Off course I added the salt to the water. I will turn on the skimmer just now, I dont have any mechanical filter btw.

nach_ · 08/05/2006, 11:10 AM

Just mounted the lighting and when turned it on, ***, it's really SNOWING inside the aquarium. I made a pair of photos, check it and suggest.. hmm. whatever..

The second one is a bit moved... Ohps, and no, there is no starboard in the aquarium

nach_ · 08/05/2006, 12:54 PM

Any clue there?

jdieck · 08/05/2006, 01:07 PM

No, just confirms precipitation. Also you could turn everything off let it settle and syphon it out if you like.
Teh skmmer will take about 24 hours or so to kick it so be patient.

nach_ · 08/05/2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

...give it a kick start you can add 1/4 tsp a day of water conditioner that contains slime coat or similar stuff, do not use more as your skimmer will foam like crazy...

What's that water conditioner. The skimmer isn't foaming enough.

jdieck · 08/05/2006, 07:56 PM

In new systems there is residual oils and plasticizers from the pipes and valve lubricants plus there is not bacteria on the internal surfaces, as a result the skimmer will take long to kick and foam.
The conditioner contains aloe vera extract (slimy thing) that helps with the bubble creation.
It is usually sold as a de-chlorinator which includes a fish protective coat. One brand name I remember or a term is "stress coat" Other conditioners also contain it just check the information on the bottle. See if you can find some around.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+112993

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+112993

nach_ · 08/08/2006, 10:03 PM

Ok. I tried all the things I was able to try. The problem survived so I decided to empty and refill the aquarium.

Now I've added only 4 kg of salt (250 liters) of other brand. Cloudy water is again there. I added the salt 12 hours before. Dunno what to do nor what to think.

Just measured some params of the osmosis water:

Calcium ~ 10
Alkalinity ~ 1,5 dKH

Any clue on what may be the origin of the problem?

So strange, so depressing

.

nach_ · 08/09/2006, 12:09 PM

I thing the problem come from the osmosis water. I have ajusted the osmosis unit to work at 5:1 instead of 3:1 and I get 0 calcium, 0 Alkalinity...

Please tell something!!

jdieck · 08/09/2006, 12:29 PM

Sorry, I am out of town on a business trip and had not been able to respond.

RO water shall basically measure 0 alk and 0 calcium
If your starting water has 1.5 that could well explain were your precipitation is comming from.

What can you tell me about the RO unit?
Brans
Capacity
Inlet pressure
Inlet TDS
Is in onty RO or is also DI?
How old is it?
When you last changed the membrane and filters?

nach_ · 08/09/2006, 01:38 PM

Ok lets explain some things.

The RO unit it's a Rowa Turbo 200 http://www.rowa-wasser.de/anleitunge...o200-BA-GB.pdf , rowa is considered one of the best brands. The capacity is regulary 200 liters/day but it depends on the inlet pressure you have, in my case it's about 4.

It has a prefilter and then the inverse osmosis membrane, that I have never changed because the unit is quite new (6 months old) and I've used it only to produce about 150 liters, now about 750 liters.

I measured the calcium of the RO water 4 months ago, when I produced then at a ratio of 4 (waste water) : 1(pure water) and it was 0. Today I measured the water produced yesterday at 4 (waste water) : 1 (pure water) and the result was what you saw, calcium around 20 (possibly lesser) and kh around 1-2.

I tried to produce some water using a 6(waste water):1(pure water) ratio and then measure the parameters. I got then 0 calcium and ~0 kh.

My doubt now is if I should change the water because is possible that the RO water produced at 4:1 has more salts (like silica or phosphate) or try to dissolve the salt and just forget about this issue.

What i'm sure is that the problem comes from the RO water and that the RO water I used has some salts dissolved, it's not pure water.

I'm not sure if the Ro water that I produce now at a 6:1 ratio is perfectly pure but with my home test of calcium I got 0, and with my home test alkalinity I got less than 1 (can't be more precise, but probably near 0).

Thankyou again and tell me what you think, I hope I gave you all the information!

jdieck · 08/10/2006, 10:06 AM

Nach, try to get a TDS meter )total dissolved solids= they are not expensive and are a lot more accurate than test kits to masure the RO-DI water.
Within a range of 4 to 1 and 6 to 1 the RO unit must give you a reduction of about 93 to 95% between the TDS in ppm entering the unit and the TDS in the product water. Otherwise the unit might be deffective, but you need to masure your TDS going in.

Say if TDS in is 500 ppm the TDS out at a rejection of 95% should be 500 less 500 times 0.95 or 25 ppm
If the TDS in your tap water is say higher than 150 ppm an RO unit alone like the one you have may not be able to lower the contaminants as much as you need so you might need to add a DI cartridge after the membrane.

nach_ · 08/10/2006, 05:33 PM

Ok. Thankyou very much! I understanded all the concepts but I don't know what the DI cartridge is...

Also..Do you know where can i get a TDS meter? I am from Spain, here the marine aquarium hobby is not very extended so if you think that in a specific shop (like a chemical shop or something like that) I will find that product tell me please.

Thankyou again!

jdieck · 08/10/2006, 07:18 PM

A full RO/DI system consists in basically four phases.

a) Sediment: The first filter removes particles and sediment, it is usually a fiber, fabric cord wound or folded paper

b) Carbon: This second filter usually either Carbon block or activated carbon is used to remove chlorine, break up chloramines, some dissolved gases and remove organic compunds that give bad taste or color the water. It is very important to remove all chlorine as it attacks adn destroys the next stage which is the heart of the system, the membrane

c) After sediment and carbon comes the Reverse Osmosis membrane. The principle of operation is similar to the effect you see when placing a paper towel next to a small puddle of water.
Once the water touches the towel it travels trough the paper leaving behind impurities.
The membrane depending in the quality and type can remove between 905 and 98% of all other impurities like dissolved minerals, phosphates, silicates etc. In theory it strips the water from even small live cells like some viruses and parasitic cysts.

What you have in your system is basically this three stages but in your case sediment and carbon are together in the first cartridge, this makes the unit smaller and practical but a double function cartridge is more expensive and lasts about half of what separate cartridges will.

Up to now basically you have removed around 95 to 98% of all impurities. If your tap water is relatively pure then this might be enoug and you may end up with 4 to 6 ppm impurities but if your water is loaded with things specially minerals then you may end up with a lot more and because Silicates and Phosphates seem to be the lasts to be removed you may end up with unsuitable water.
Whatever is left are mostly ionic compounds, still some silicates, phosphates, nitrates, calium etc.
In order to remove those a resin is used that atracts and holds either positive or negative ions (De-Ionization resin and depending on the ions it atracts either Anionic or Cathionic Resin)
The simpler units use a single cartridge which contain both resins mixed together. Because the resin gets exausted over time, some resins are colored and as they get exausted they loose the color so you know when to change them. (The full name: Color indicating mixed bed De-Ionization cartridge)
This DI cartridge removes whatever passes the membrane. Of course the less passes the longer the DI cartridge life.
Because basically all minerals and compunds are removed from the water RO/DI water has no alkalinity at all so it's PH is very easy to change (alkalinity oposes to PH changes). PH of RO/DI water theorethically is 7.0 (Neutral) but because pure water re-adsorbs gases from the air the PH is usually below 7 caused by the minute amounts od CO2 from the air dissolved back into it.

The TDS meter you can get at any place where RO/DI purification units and filters are sold asn an accesory.
There are the hand held ones that you submerge the tip in the water or the ones you install on the product line.

nach_ · 08/10/2006, 10:03 PM

Thankyou very very much for your help. Your explanation was perfect.

I've been searching for a while and I cant find any DI resin for home use (in spanish sites). Can you place a link to a product of this type?

About the TDS meter I think I will have it tomorrow without problems. I'm pretty sure that if there is a problem it have to be in the prefilter, never in the membran, is there any way to clean it or Im forced to change it?

Thankyou again!

nach_ · 08/10/2006, 10:33 PM

Maybe I commited a big mistake and the membran dried? It can be anything related with the RO unit. About the DI membran, also I will need a special unit where to place it, wont I?

08/04/2006, 04:48 PM	#27
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	I tought you had gone to sleep by now! It could have been many things, colder than normal water, precipitation of Magnesium Chloride from the salt mix (somtimes they just over shoot it) but my best bet could have been that the moisture content in the salt might have been high, that might make some of the components to react like Sodium Chloride and Sodim Carbonate to form Calcium carbonate or Calcium Hydroxide with CO2 in the air to form also Calcium Carbonate etc. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/04/2006, 09:21 PM	#29
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	PH seems check Calcium and Magnesium. Very low PH may indicate a precipitation event but a KH of 10 after precipitation is possible but not likely unless the PH drop enough to stop it. Any way you can get a better test of the PH? Did you added anything else than water and the salt mix? __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/04/2006, 10:05 PM	#31
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	If you still have some of the salt you may want to prepare a sample of a couple of gallons and test the sample just to insure the salt was not defective. If you are going to the fish store you can take a sample of your water and have them test it for you also. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/05/2006, 03:01 AM	#33
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	High Calcium and High Alkalinity suggest there was precipitation. Either salinity was high or the salt is defective. How are you measuring salinity? Do you have a refractometer? __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/05/2006, 03:21 AM	#35
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Then I can venture (So pena de equivocarme) to say that the salt might be defective. In such a case there is no problem with the water you have but you can use a mechanical filter (foam or fiber) to remove the particles. If you have a skimmer it can also help remove the particles, to have it perform better and give it a kick start you can add 1/4 tsp a day of water conditioner that contains slime coat or similar stuff, do not use more as your skimmer will foam like crazy, you may need to re-adjust the skimmer for a dryer foam. By the way, low Magnesium may indicate precipitation of Magnesium Chloride as well. Just in case, did you added the salt to the water or the water to the salt? I will again recomend that you prepare a water sample using the salt and have it tested by the store were you purchased the salt. (Quien quite y con suerte te regresen tu dinero) Now I'm going to bed. Suerte! __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/04/2006, 04:10 PM	#26
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Well things are getting better very slowly. I hope that in some days the water will be ok. Anyway, why happened this?, I've never got any problems adding the salt to the aquarium. Any clue?

08/04/2006, 08:19 PM	#28
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Things are not really getting better. It was the afternoon light or something but I can say that it's exactly the same as yesterday. Some extra info: Salinity: 1024-1025 PH: (not very well measured) around 7 KH: around 10 In the bottom I can see now some white particles. I keep removing them. If it will be useful, I'll measure calcium. Thankyou very much!

08/04/2006, 09:39 PM	#30
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	I didnt add anything else. Tomorrow I will check mg and Ca. I will try to get a better ph test so.

08/05/2006, 02:13 AM	#32
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Ok, with the day light things seem to look better.. Calcium: 520 Magnesium:1180 That's all, I dont have a good ph test but with the strip test it's around 7,5-8. Thankyou again!

08/05/2006, 03:08 AM	#34
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Yes, I have a refractometer and I'm sure that the salinity is 1024. I think I will wait until Monday and then, if the water is still cloudy I will change it totally...

08/05/2006, 03:44 AM	#36
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Thankyou very much. Off course I added the salt to the water. I will turn on the skimmer just now, I dont have any mechanical filter btw.

08/05/2006, 11:10 AM	#37
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Just mounted the lighting and when turned it on, ***, it's really SNOWING inside the aquarium. I made a pair of photos, check it and suggest.. hmm. whatever.. The second one is a bit moved... Ohps, and no, there is no starboard in the aquarium

08/05/2006, 12:54 PM	#38
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Any clue there?

08/05/2006, 01:07 PM	#39
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	No, just confirms precipitation. Also you could turn everything off let it settle and syphon it out if you like. Teh skmmer will take about 24 hours or so to kick it so be patient. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/05/2006, 07:56 PM	#41
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	In new systems there is residual oils and plasticizers from the pipes and valve lubricants plus there is not bacteria on the internal surfaces, as a result the skimmer will take long to kick and foam. The conditioner contains aloe vera extract (slimy thing) that helps with the bubble creation. It is usually sold as a de-chlorinator which includes a fish protective coat. One brand name I remember or a term is "stress coat" Other conditioners also contain it just check the information on the bottle. See if you can find some around. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+112993 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+112993 __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/08/2006, 10:03 PM	#42
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Ok. I tried all the things I was able to try. The problem survived so I decided to empty and refill the aquarium. Now I've added only 4 kg of salt (250 liters) of other brand. Cloudy water is again there. I added the salt 12 hours before. Dunno what to do nor what to think. Just measured some params of the osmosis water: Calcium ~ 10 Alkalinity ~ 1,5 dKH Any clue on what may be the origin of the problem? So strange, so depressing .

08/09/2006, 12:09 PM	#43
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	I thing the problem come from the osmosis water. I have ajusted the osmosis unit to work at 5:1 instead of 3:1 and I get 0 calcium, 0 Alkalinity... Please tell something!!

08/09/2006, 12:29 PM	#44
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Sorry, I am out of town on a business trip and had not been able to respond. RO water shall basically measure 0 alk and 0 calcium If your starting water has 1.5 that could well explain were your precipitation is comming from. What can you tell me about the RO unit? Brans Capacity Inlet pressure Inlet TDS Is in onty RO or is also DI? How old is it? When you last changed the membrane and filters? __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/09/2006, 01:38 PM	#45
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Ok lets explain some things. The RO unit it's a Rowa Turbo 200 http://www.rowa-wasser.de/anleitunge...o200-BA-GB.pdf , rowa is considered one of the best brands. The capacity is regulary 200 liters/day but it depends on the inlet pressure you have, in my case it's about 4. It has a prefilter and then the inverse osmosis membrane, that I have never changed because the unit is quite new (6 months old) and I've used it only to produce about 150 liters, now about 750 liters. I measured the calcium of the RO water 4 months ago, when I produced then at a ratio of 4 (waste water) : 1(pure water) and it was 0. Today I measured the water produced yesterday at 4 (waste water) : 1 (pure water) and the result was what you saw, calcium around 20 (possibly lesser) and kh around 1-2. I tried to produce some water using a 6(waste water):1(pure water) ratio and then measure the parameters. I got then 0 calcium and ~0 kh. My doubt now is if I should change the water because is possible that the RO water produced at 4:1 has more salts (like silica or phosphate) or try to dissolve the salt and just forget about this issue. What i'm sure is that the problem comes from the RO water and that the RO water I used has some salts dissolved, it's not pure water. I'm not sure if the Ro water that I produce now at a 6:1 ratio is perfectly pure but with my home test of calcium I got 0, and with my home test alkalinity I got less than 1 (can't be more precise, but probably near 0). Thankyou again and tell me what you think, I hope I gave you all the information!

08/10/2006, 10:06 AM	#46
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Nach, try to get a TDS meter )total dissolved solids= they are not expensive and are a lot more accurate than test kits to masure the RO-DI water. Within a range of 4 to 1 and 6 to 1 the RO unit must give you a reduction of about 93 to 95% between the TDS in ppm entering the unit and the TDS in the product water. Otherwise the unit might be deffective, but you need to masure your TDS going in. Say if TDS in is 500 ppm the TDS out at a rejection of 95% should be 500 less 500 times 0.95 or 25 ppm If the TDS in your tap water is say higher than 150 ppm an RO unit alone like the one you have may not be able to lower the contaminants as much as you need so you might need to add a DI cartridge after the membrane. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/10/2006, 05:33 PM	#47
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Ok. Thankyou very much! I understanded all the concepts but I don't know what the DI cartridge is... Also..Do you know where can i get a TDS meter? I am from Spain, here the marine aquarium hobby is not very extended so if you think that in a specific shop (like a chemical shop or something like that) I will find that product tell me please. Thankyou again!

08/10/2006, 07:18 PM	#48
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	A full RO/DI system consists in basically four phases. a) Sediment: The first filter removes particles and sediment, it is usually a fiber, fabric cord wound or folded paper b) Carbon: This second filter usually either Carbon block or activated carbon is used to remove chlorine, break up chloramines, some dissolved gases and remove organic compunds that give bad taste or color the water. It is very important to remove all chlorine as it attacks adn destroys the next stage which is the heart of the system, the membrane c) After sediment and carbon comes the Reverse Osmosis membrane. The principle of operation is similar to the effect you see when placing a paper towel next to a small puddle of water. Once the water touches the towel it travels trough the paper leaving behind impurities. The membrane depending in the quality and type can remove between 905 and 98% of all other impurities like dissolved minerals, phosphates, silicates etc. In theory it strips the water from even small live cells like some viruses and parasitic cysts. What you have in your system is basically this three stages but in your case sediment and carbon are together in the first cartridge, this makes the unit smaller and practical but a double function cartridge is more expensive and lasts about half of what separate cartridges will. Up to now basically you have removed around 95 to 98% of all impurities. If your tap water is relatively pure then this might be enoug and you may end up with 4 to 6 ppm impurities but if your water is loaded with things specially minerals then you may end up with a lot more and because Silicates and Phosphates seem to be the lasts to be removed you may end up with unsuitable water. Whatever is left are mostly ionic compounds, still some silicates, phosphates, nitrates, calium etc. In order to remove those a resin is used that atracts and holds either positive or negative ions (De-Ionization resin and depending on the ions it atracts either Anionic or Cathionic Resin) The simpler units use a single cartridge which contain both resins mixed together. Because the resin gets exausted over time, some resins are colored and as they get exausted they loose the color so you know when to change them. (The full name: Color indicating mixed bed De-Ionization cartridge) This DI cartridge removes whatever passes the membrane. Of course the less passes the longer the DI cartridge life. Because basically all minerals and compunds are removed from the water RO/DI water has no alkalinity at all so it's PH is very easy to change (alkalinity oposes to PH changes). PH of RO/DI water theorethically is 7.0 (Neutral) but because pure water re-adsorbs gases from the air the PH is usually below 7 caused by the minute amounts od CO2 from the air dissolved back into it. The TDS meter you can get at any place where RO/DI purification units and filters are sold asn an accesory. There are the hand held ones that you submerge the tip in the water or the ones you install on the product line. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

08/10/2006, 10:03 PM	#49
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Thankyou very very much for your help. Your explanation was perfect. I've been searching for a while and I cant find any DI resin for home use (in spanish sites). Can you place a link to a product of this type? About the TDS meter I think I will have it tomorrow without problems. I'm pretty sure that if there is a problem it have to be in the prefilter, never in the membran, is there any way to clean it or Im forced to change it? Thankyou again!

08/10/2006, 10:33 PM	#50
nach_ Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Barcelona Posts: 46	Maybe I commited a big mistake and the membran dried? It can be anything related with the RO unit. About the DI membran, also I will need a special unit where to place it, wont I?