DSB/fuges

Pico1 · 08/13/2006, 09:24 PM

Does anyone know anything or any good articles on deep sand beds/refugiums? I read Dr.Ron's article "dearest mudder" and couldn't find too much helpful info. I also tried looking for an article in past issues of reef keeping magazine and couldn't find much (although the search engine for the mag seemed like it wasn't working properly). I would love to hear anyone's input on these subjects and would appreciate any links to good articles as well. Thanks!

MandM · 08/13/2006, 09:39 PM

Try this to start:
Filtration on wetwebmedia.com

Then specifically,
deep sand beds

I think we have Ron Shimek's "Deep Sandbed Secrets" in the club library.

Pico1 · 08/13/2006, 11:25 PM

That is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for the links MandM. Anyone else sho wants to share input or articles is welcome to do so

Pico1 · 08/14/2006, 08:36 PM

Well, I've heard that DSB's in a refugium will just become a "nutrient sink" and will simply not work since it's being used in such a small space, versus the entire tank bottom. What do you guys think?

Fragmented · 08/14/2006, 08:47 PM

I think I have decided to leave the sand out of my new refugium. It's doing well so far with just live rock. I plan on adding some cheato soon, followed by pods. After it matures a bit I will connect it to my main tank.

I'll make my final decision after hearing what Bruce has to say on the subject in his presentation on Friday.

Pico1 · 08/15/2006, 10:35 AM

Well after buying 20 lbs. of live sand and talking with a few different people I decided to go with a 1" sand bed.

I have about 12-15 lbs. of the nature's ocean brand live reef sand left over if anyone wants it for free.

Nu2SW · 08/15/2006, 10:58 AM

Jordan, I am going to need some for my new nano and its refugium, but the refug isnt up and running yet, I am going to build a stand for it so my 10g tank will fit under the 12g nano.

Can you hold some for me? enough for a 1 inch sand bed in a 10g tank.

Pico1 · 08/15/2006, 11:11 AM

I can just bring it to you at the meeting

tfp · 08/15/2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pico1
...I have about 12-15 lbs. of the nature's ocean brand live reef sand left over if anyone wants it for free.

jordan, that was very generous of you

Nu2SW · 08/15/2006, 11:47 AM

How long will that sand stay live if it just sits?

Pico1 · 08/15/2006, 12:20 PM

It said on the bag it had a 1 year shelf life so it should be fine, I packed it up with some SW from my tank too.

Underwaterparadise · 08/15/2006, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pico1
Well, I've heard that DSB's in a refugium will just become a "nutrient sink" and will simply not work since it's being used in such a small space, versus the entire tank bottom. What do you guys think?

Where did you hear this?

I would have to tend to disagree. The DSB in the main display ( if larger) will be more efficient then the smaller fuge/sump due to less surface space. DSB's are GREAT for Nitrate reduction.

IMO a 1" sand bed in a fuge really serves no purpose other then to become a nutrient sink unless vaccumed and that may kill most of the critters you are trying to grow. Most people run Shallow sand beds 1-3" purely for the "looks", myself included.

My main display has a 2-4" SB and I vaccum it bi weekly with water changes. My frag tank has a BB with a DSB 5" in the sump that I try to keep completly dark to prevent algea from growing on it.

Ask John how his Nitrates were when he disconnect his remote DSB on his tank at home

that's my .02c on the issue.

Pico1 · 08/15/2006, 10:06 PM

Well, I personally think a DSB would have worked if it's created traditionally, just on a smaller scale. My choices were a DSB with 1/3 less chaeto or a SSB with 1/3 more chaeto. I just want a deep enough sandbed where things can grow in it (ex. micro brittle stars, bristle worms, pods, feather dusters, ect.) now that I don't have a DSB.

Underwaterparadise · 08/15/2006, 10:14 PM

I understand that but with a shallow bed it does not have the capability to break down all the crap and absorb the nitrates so it becomes like a sponge and just sucks up all the crap and left over food, etc. and releases it back into the water over time. A shallow SB needs to be vaccumed IMO no matter how much macro you have. I would add more sand but that is just me. If you do a google search you can find lots of info on DSB's. Calfo also has a decent section in his prop book. John has a copy you could read

Pico1 · 08/15/2006, 10:23 PM

Hmmm, I hate it when I get mixed opinions in this hobby. I guess mixed opinions are better than no opinions. Mabey I will go back to the DSB.

bsaastad · 08/16/2006, 12:00 PM

Here's LOOOONG thread about simple remote DSBs. There's some good info if you can wade through all the nonsense.

DSBs in a bucket

Nu2SW · 08/16/2006, 12:47 PM

DSB VS SSB VS BB is always going to get a very different opinion on every type. KInda just have to try and see how it works for you

bsaastad · 08/16/2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nu2SW
DSB VS SSB VS BB is always going to get a very different opinion on every type. KInda just have to try and see how it works for you

Yup. The whole debate reminds of a big game of Rock/Paper/Scissors

08/13/2006, 09:24 PM	#1
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	DSB/fuges Does anyone know anything or any good articles on deep sand beds/refugiums? I read Dr.Ron's article "dearest mudder" and couldn't find too much helpful info. I also tried looking for an article in past issues of reef keeping magazine and couldn't find much (although the search engine for the mag seemed like it wasn't working properly). I would love to hear anyone's input on these subjects and would appreciate any links to good articles as well. Thanks! __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/13/2006, 09:39 PM	#2
MandM sick yet brilliant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,497	Try this to start: Filtration on wetwebmedia.com Then specifically, deep sand beds I think we have Ron Shimek's "Deep Sandbed Secrets" in the club library. __________________ Sheila I was emo when emo wasn't cool If your not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Current Tank Info: 120g, 8g

08/13/2006, 11:25 PM	#3
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	That is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for the links MandM. Anyone else sho wants to share input or articles is welcome to do so __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/14/2006, 08:36 PM	#4
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	Well, I've heard that DSB's in a refugium will just become a "nutrient sink" and will simply not work since it's being used in such a small space, versus the entire tank bottom. What do you guys think? __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/15/2006, 10:35 AM	#6
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	Well after buying 20 lbs. of live sand and talking with a few different people I decided to go with a 1" sand bed. I have about 12-15 lbs. of the nature's ocean brand live reef sand left over if anyone wants it for free. __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/14/2006, 08:47 PM	#5
Fragmented Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Nevada City, CA Posts: 919	I think I have decided to leave the sand out of my new refugium. It's doing well so far with just live rock. I plan on adding some cheato soon, followed by pods. After it matures a bit I will connect it to my main tank. I'll make my final decision after hearing what Bruce has to say on the subject in his presentation on Friday.

08/15/2006, 10:58 AM	#7
Nu2SW Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arden Fair Posts: 1,772	Jordan, I am going to need some for my new nano and its refugium, but the refug isnt up and running yet, I am going to build a stand for it so my 10g tank will fit under the 12g nano. Can you hold some for me? enough for a 1 inch sand bed in a 10g tank. __________________ _____________________________ Its Only $100 Dollars dear.... ______________________________ Current Tank Info: Looking to get back in

08/15/2006, 11:11 AM	#8
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	I can just bring it to you at the meeting __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/15/2006, 11:47 AM	#10
Nu2SW Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arden Fair Posts: 1,772	How long will that sand stay live if it just sits? __________________ _____________________________ Its Only $100 Dollars dear.... ______________________________ Current Tank Info: Looking to get back in

08/15/2006, 12:20 PM	#11
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	It said on the bag it had a 1 year shelf life so it should be fine, I packed it up with some SW from my tank too. __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/15/2006, 10:06 PM	#13
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	Well, I personally think a DSB would have worked if it's created traditionally, just on a smaller scale. My choices were a DSB with 1/3 less chaeto or a SSB with 1/3 more chaeto. I just want a deep enough sandbed where things can grow in it (ex. micro brittle stars, bristle worms, pods, feather dusters, ect.) now that I don't have a DSB. __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/15/2006, 10:14 PM	#14
Underwaterparadise Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Northern Cali Posts: 2,624	I understand that but with a shallow bed it does not have the capability to break down all the crap and absorb the nitrates so it becomes like a sponge and just sucks up all the crap and left over food, etc. and releases it back into the water over time. A shallow SB needs to be vaccumed IMO no matter how much macro you have. I would add more sand but that is just me. If you do a google search you can find lots of info on DSB's. Calfo also has a decent section in his prop book. John has a copy you could read __________________ Who needs fish in a Fish tank when you have corals! Current Tank Info: Taking a Vacation

08/15/2006, 10:23 PM	#15
Pico1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 1,627	Hmmm, I hate it when I get mixed opinions in this hobby. I guess mixed opinions are better than no opinions. Mabey I will go back to the DSB. __________________ Jordan Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 170

08/16/2006, 12:00 PM	#16
bsaastad Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rancho Cordova, CA Posts: 275	Here's LOOOONG thread about simple remote DSBs. There's some good info if you can wade through all the nonsense. DSBs in a bucket __________________ "The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it." -- George Bernard Shaw Current Tank Info: 52 gal reef, 17 gal sump, Radion gen 3 LEDs, Reef Octopus 150 skimmer

08/16/2006, 12:47 PM	#17
Nu2SW Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arden Fair Posts: 1,772	DSB VS SSB VS BB is always going to get a very different opinion on every type. KInda just have to try and see how it works for you __________________ _____________________________ Its Only $100 Dollars dear.... ______________________________ Current Tank Info: Looking to get back in