power usage mh vs. power compact

gguertin · 08/22/2006, 01:00 PM

would the electric bill alone validate staying with power compacts? Is there another benefit to the metal halides other then the cheap bulbs?

BurntOutReefer · 08/22/2006, 01:06 PM

IMO.....great growth of pretty much anything.

gguertin · 08/22/2006, 10:28 PM

I have 2 power compacts each with 4 65 watt bulbs thats 520 watts out of the power compacts for my 75gallon tank. So are you saying that 2 400watt metal halides and the extra electric bill is worth the difference? I am trying to decide what to do because my bulbs need to be replaced I had one burn out on me.

theatrus · 08/22/2006, 10:36 PM

400W is overkill

2x250W would be fine for that tank.

tripstank · 08/22/2006, 10:43 PM

I have 2X250 Over my 58, there is no way 400w is overkill. If can afford it, get it! Just remember you will also have to deal with the heat and electric bill that comes with it. What are you keeping? What do you plan on keeping? How deep is the tank? More specifics would surely help us help you.

tripstank · 08/22/2006, 10:44 PM

If you are a responsible reef keeper you have to buy what is BEST for your animals. If you are keeping SPS and clams, yes, MH over PC anyday. Softies and sum LPS high in the tank, no, stay with PCs, be fare to the animals and don't CHEAP OUT!

gguertin · 08/23/2006, 10:30 AM

I dont really have anything yet I just have a few fish and one anenome. But I want to be able to get whatever I want in there so that is why I am looking. It is a standard 75g tank so the tank is 21in tall and prolly only 18 to the sand bed. currently there are 2pc each with 4 65w bulbs.
So everyone is saying mh is better the pc I believe just more expensive to keep.
so do I need 2 400 watt or 2 250?
what color temp is best?

gguertin · 08/23/2006, 10:33 AM

if you need more tripstank let me know I will post it I am really trying to get as much help as I can making this decision so that I make the right one being it is so important for the tank. Thanks.

spineshank385 · 08/23/2006, 10:33 AM

also, pc bulbs don't last quite as long as MH bulbs, so you will be spending more in the long run on bulbs with pc

RichConley · 08/23/2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gguertin
would the electric bill alone validate staying with power compacts? Is there another benefit to the metal halides other then the cheap bulbs?

Simple, Metal halides put out from 2 to 3 times the usable light per watt as PCs.

A single 175w MH would put out more light than your PCs.

RichConley · 08/23/2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tripstank
I have 2X250 Over my 58, there is no way 400w is overkill. If can afford it, get it! Just remember you will also have to deal with the heat and electric bill that comes with it. What are you keeping? What do you plan on keeping? How deep is the tank? More specifics would surely help us help you.

I've got basically the same setup as you Trips, adn I disagree.. my 2x250 on my 58 is most certainly overkill. (unless you meant for there to be a comma in there, and you're agreeing with me).

Honestly, 2x175 is more than enough on that size tank.

theatrus · 08/23/2006, 12:22 PM

My vote would be for 2x250W bulbs. If you want mad growth, put some quality 10k bulbs in there and supplement with T5 actinics or blue+ bulbs. If you want good growth at lower electricity usage, just use 14k MH bulbs such as Hamiltons or Ushios and don't run actinics.

tripstank · 08/23/2006, 01:00 PM

I personally love my 250's! Fast growth, great colors, and depth penetration. But the debate is not over how many watts of MH, just if they are better than PCs in accordance with the price of electricity. Putting my setup and everyone elses suggestions aside, I still vote for MHs over Pcs.

tripstank · 08/23/2006, 01:01 PM

Ohh yeah, but to comment, I have XM 20,000Ks on my 250s and it looks great! I have SPS and Clams on the sanded and don't have to lose sleep over their health.

RichConley · 08/23/2006, 01:05 PM

Ok, that makes sense. I still think you could run 2x175 20Ks, and be fine though.

I run 2x250 10ks, and its serious "burning stylo on my sandbed" type overkill

tripstank · 08/23/2006, 07:20 PM

Like the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

gguertin · 08/23/2006, 10:00 PM

ok so 2 250w mh bulbs seems to be what everyone is saying. The 1400 does sound good I may want to put an actinic on there on my own just for the color?
sounds like the xm bulbs are popular is that what you all recomend?
Is a coil core ballast ok or is there a performance difference other then the startup time?
Last question on this topic 2x250w mh would be cheaper then my 520w pc right now to run and buy right?

spineshank385 · 08/23/2006, 10:15 PM

electronic ballasts will cost more up front, but are more efficient than magnetic ballasts, which means they'll be easier on the electric bill

gguertin · 08/23/2006, 10:42 PM

ahh so prolly a better way to go in the long run, especially since I dont want to see my elec bill go up 30 bucks a month like my dad did.

D-Rod · 08/23/2006, 10:46 PM

T-5's

jdieck · 08/23/2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gguertin
I dont really have anything yet I just have a few fish and one anenome. But I want to be able to get whatever I want in there so that is why I am looking. It is a standard 75g tank so the tank is 21in tall and prolly only 18 to the sand bed. currently there are 2pc each with 4 65w bulbs.
So everyone is saying mh is better the pc I believe just more expensive to keep.
so do I need 2 400 watt or 2 250?
what color temp is best?

Two 400 watts will bew an overkill on that tank, Two 250 watts is more than enough to keep watever you need including sps and clams.
If you are not using actinic supplementation I would recomend 14K bulbs.
Watt per watt you will not be increasing your electric bill but you will increase the light output.
You can explore using four of the existing 65 watters with actinic PCs for supplementation in which case I would recommend 10K for the halides.
Including conversion losses right now you are using about 580 watts vs about 560 using two 250 watters, if you use 4 additional 65 watters for supplementation you will increase consumption to about 850 watts or an increase of 270 watts over what you use today.
Assuming you have the lights on 10 hours and that your power cost is 7 cents per kilowatt-hour that will be an increase of 82.13 kilowatt-hours per month or $5.75 additional per month in your power bill.

gguertin · 08/24/2006, 03:07 AM

wow what a great answere! Thank you for all that info.
So if I understand correctly you are saying the best situatoin would be to put actinics in my current pc and then get 10000k metal halides? 2 metal halides and 4 bulbs of actinic lights sounds like an awful lot of light?

5 dollars a month is way worth it I was worried about 30 which is what I heard from my dad with what he did but he could have changed some other things too and not told me.

jdieck · 08/24/2006, 08:38 AM

Yes you can use the MH alone at 14K or MH with the PC as actinics. Using the actinics gives you the additional option of simulating rise and dawn by turning them on before and off after the actinics. You can use 10K and leave the actinics on while the MH are on (Power will be OK as actinics do not put out great intensity or you can use 14K with the actinics and turn the actinics off when the MH turn on but this last option require a timer that can turn the actinics on and off twice in the day.

RichConley · 08/24/2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gguertin

5 dollars a month is way worth it I was worried about 30 which is what I heard from my dad with what he did but he could have changed some other things too and not told me.

You have to look at your electric cost first. His calculations are for $.07/kwh.

I pay $.19/kwh, so my changes would be $12-15 a month.

Honestly, if you're gonna run 10K bulbs, run 175s. I run 2x250 on my 58, and I burn the crap out of everything. If you're going to run 20Ks or 14Ks, fine, but 250w 10ks can handle quite a deep tank.

jdieck · 08/24/2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
You have to look at your electric cost first. His calculations are for $.07/kwh.

I pay $.19/kwh, so my changes would be $12-15 a month.

Honestly, if you're gonna run 10K bulbs, run 175s. I run 2x250 on my 58, and I burn the crap out of everything. If you're going to run 20Ks or 14Ks, fine, but 250w 10ks can handle quite a deep tank.

Yes, Rich is right, Power rate changes by region and sometimes even by location, I used the power rate most likely to be foun in the Mid West while in places like California it is higher.

Using 175 watt MH is also an option if you are to use the actinics. You can locate the sps in the higher areas of the rockwork while LPS can be located toward the sides and bottom giving the aquarium more diversity.

08/22/2006, 01:00 PM	#1
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	power usage mh vs. power compact would the electric bill alone validate staying with power compacts? Is there another benefit to the metal halides other then the cheap bulbs?

08/22/2006, 10:36 PM	#4
theatrus 100-mile-commuter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: almost nevada Posts: 4,721	400W is overkill 2x250W would be fine for that tank. __________________ Custom electronics purveyor. blueAcro.com Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics

08/22/2006, 10:43 PM	#5
tripstank Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 488	I have 2X250 Over my 58, there is no way 400w is overkill. If can afford it, get it! Just remember you will also have to deal with the heat and electric bill that comes with it. What are you keeping? What do you plan on keeping? How deep is the tank? More specifics would surely help us help you. __________________ Not to point fingers, but.................... Current Tank Info: Coral Prop troughs

08/22/2006, 10:44 PM	#6
tripstank Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 488	If you are a responsible reef keeper you have to buy what is BEST for your animals. If you are keeping SPS and clams, yes, MH over PC anyday. Softies and sum LPS high in the tank, no, stay with PCs, be fare to the animals and don't CHEAP OUT! __________________ Not to point fingers, but.................... Current Tank Info: Coral Prop troughs

08/23/2006, 12:22 PM	#12
theatrus 100-mile-commuter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: almost nevada Posts: 4,721	My vote would be for 2x250W bulbs. If you want mad growth, put some quality 10k bulbs in there and supplement with T5 actinics or blue+ bulbs. If you want good growth at lower electricity usage, just use 14k MH bulbs such as Hamiltons or Ushios and don't run actinics. __________________ Custom electronics purveyor. blueAcro.com Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics

08/22/2006, 01:06 PM	#2
BurntOutReefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Granada Hills Posts: 4,376	IMO.....great growth of pretty much anything.

08/22/2006, 10:28 PM	#3
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	I have 2 power compacts each with 4 65 watt bulbs thats 520 watts out of the power compacts for my 75gallon tank. So are you saying that 2 400watt metal halides and the extra electric bill is worth the difference? I am trying to decide what to do because my bulbs need to be replaced I had one burn out on me.

08/23/2006, 10:30 AM	#7
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	I dont really have anything yet I just have a few fish and one anenome. But I want to be able to get whatever I want in there so that is why I am looking. It is a standard 75g tank so the tank is 21in tall and prolly only 18 to the sand bed. currently there are 2pc each with 4 65w bulbs. So everyone is saying mh is better the pc I believe just more expensive to keep. so do I need 2 400 watt or 2 250? what color temp is best?

08/23/2006, 10:33 AM	#8
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	if you need more tripstank let me know I will post it I am really trying to get as much help as I can making this decision so that I make the right one being it is so important for the tank. Thanks.

08/23/2006, 10:33 AM	#9
spineshank385 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 410	also, pc bulbs don't last quite as long as MH bulbs, so you will be spending more in the long run on bulbs with pc

08/23/2006, 01:00 PM	#13
tripstank Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 488	I personally love my 250's! Fast growth, great colors, and depth penetration. But the debate is not over how many watts of MH, just if they are better than PCs in accordance with the price of electricity. Putting my setup and everyone elses suggestions aside, I still vote for MHs over Pcs. __________________ Not to point fingers, but.................... Current Tank Info: Coral Prop troughs

08/23/2006, 01:01 PM	#14
tripstank Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 488	Ohh yeah, but to comment, I have XM 20,000Ks on my 250s and it looks great! I have SPS and Clams on the sanded and don't have to lose sleep over their health. __________________ Not to point fingers, but.................... Current Tank Info: Coral Prop troughs

08/23/2006, 01:05 PM	#15
RichConley Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bostonian in Chicago going to DC Posts: 9,908	Ok, that makes sense. I still think you could run 2x175 20Ks, and be fine though. I run 2x250 10ks, and its serious "burning stylo on my sandbed" type overkill __________________ NO TANKS!!!

08/23/2006, 07:20 PM	#16
tripstank Registered Member. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 488	Like the saying goes, you get what you pay for. __________________ Not to point fingers, but.................... Current Tank Info: Coral Prop troughs

08/23/2006, 10:00 PM	#17
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	ok so 2 250w mh bulbs seems to be what everyone is saying. The 1400 does sound good I may want to put an actinic on there on my own just for the color? sounds like the xm bulbs are popular is that what you all recomend? Is a coil core ballast ok or is there a performance difference other then the startup time? Last question on this topic 2x250w mh would be cheaper then my 520w pc right now to run and buy right?

08/23/2006, 10:15 PM	#18
spineshank385 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 410	electronic ballasts will cost more up front, but are more efficient than magnetic ballasts, which means they'll be easier on the electric bill

08/23/2006, 10:42 PM	#19
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	ahh so prolly a better way to go in the long run, especially since I dont want to see my elec bill go up 30 bucks a month like my dad did.

08/23/2006, 10:46 PM	#20
D-Rod Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Posts: 1,020	T-5's __________________ The Vino Man - I Trade With Wine...Just Ask! Current Tank Info: Small Tank, Lights, Fish; Tangs a whole bunch, 4 False Perculas, 6 rose anemones Mixed Reef.

08/24/2006, 03:07 AM	#22
gguertin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 766	wow what a great answere! Thank you for all that info. So if I understand correctly you are saying the best situatoin would be to put actinics in my current pc and then get 10000k metal halides? 2 metal halides and 4 bulbs of actinic lights sounds like an awful lot of light? 5 dollars a month is way worth it I was worried about 30 which is what I heard from my dad with what he did but he could have changed some other things too and not told me.

08/24/2006, 08:38 AM	#23
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Yes you can use the MH alone at 14K or MH with the PC as actinics. Using the actinics gives you the additional option of simulating rise and dawn by turning them on before and off after the actinics. You can use 10K and leave the actinics on while the MH are on (Power will be OK as actinics do not put out great intensity or you can use 14K with the actinics and turn the actinics off when the MH turn on but this last option require a timer that can turn the actinics on and off twice in the day. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium