Ozone plumbing question?

Dirt4dinner · 10/26/2006, 02:21 PM

I just got my first Ozone set up and am a little confused on how it connects to the skimmer. Does the hose from the Ozone generator plug directly into the skimmer hose? The previous owner of the Ozone has a T on the end of the Ozone hose, looks like he hooked the Skimmer air hose to this "T" and then the other part of the "T" is broken off. Is this how it should be connected, with 1/3 of the "T" going to the skimmer, 1/3" going to the Ozone, and the last 1/3 just open? Seems like this would allow a lot of Ozone to escape out of that open "T" when the generator is running. Thanks for the advice.

Enaly Generator, Milwakie Monitor/ Controller/ ORP Probe.

jumboshrimp18 · 10/26/2006, 07:21 PM

Good question, Tagging on for hopefully an answer from someone who knows. My ozone is set up in the way you mentioned and I am wondering the same thing.

_K_E_P_ · 10/26/2006, 07:46 PM

That is how most people set it up, I prefer it with a tap on the 1/3 not connected to anything. If the skimmer was connected directly to the ozone it would not be able to suck enough air/ozone mixture for it to skim properly. The extra air inlet allows more air to be sucked in as well as the ozone.

If you put your finger over the open 1/3 you can feel it sucking, this is why the ozone doesn't escape out it. If you put your finger over the air intake on the ozone unit you should also feel it sucking so no ozone escapes out there either. Hope I explained it alright.

jdieck · 10/26/2006, 07:57 PM

This pic may help. The transparent hose is the air suction for the skimmer, the black tubing is the Ozone.

jumboshrimp18 · 10/26/2006, 11:08 PM

jdieck: Do you think its possible, the way your inputs are set up, that some ozone escapes out the air intake?

jdieck · 10/26/2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jumboshrimp18
jdieck: Do you think its possible, the way your inputs are set up, that some ozone escapes out the air intake?

When the T is at the end of the hose it will be possible when the skimmer is off and there is no air being sucked in, When the T is installed at the point where the hose enter the skimmer and the hose is long enough the possibility still exists when the skimmer is off but this installation allows you to set a carbon filter at the end of the hose which in addition to prevent Ozone escaping when the skimmer is off it will also clean the air being used by the skimmer when it is working.
In my case I have the hose connected to an air pleated paper filter and from there to the outside of the house that is why I really do not need carbon there.

Dirt4dinner · 10/26/2006, 11:44 PM

Thanks very much for the photo! I am going to set it up tomorrow and keep a very close eye on my ORP throughout the day tomorrow. From what I understand I don't want to raise it more than 20 per day, and never over 400. I haven't even got the monitor wet yet, so I don't know what it will be at to start. Thanks again.

jdieck · 10/26/2006, 11:51 PM

Good Luck!

newsalt · 10/27/2006, 06:40 AM

I tried to plumb my ozone like this:

I have a mazzei venturi on the water inlet to my skimmer. The problem I have is that I can feel air coming out of the side of the tee with the valve. I thought I would feel air being sucked in, but I don't. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

jdieck · 10/27/2006, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by newsalt
I tried to plumb my ozone like this:
I have a mazzei venturi on the water inlet to my skimmer. The problem I have is that I can feel air coming out of the side of the tee with the valve. I thought I would feel air being sucked in, but I don't. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

Are you using an air pump for the Ozone? If so there is a chance that the pump is pushing more air than the venturi needs so the air incoming in trough the Ozone inlet split both ways to the ventury and to the air inlet.
Try Operating the skimmer with all the setup but without turning on the ozone pump. Do you feel air comming in? Turn on the Ozone pump (you can have the Ozone generator Off) Do you feel air still comming in or going out?
If in the first case it sucks air in and in the second air is going out try using an aquarium air valve at the ouput of the pump to reduce the pumps air flow going into the generator and into the skimmer.

See how it goes.

newsalt · 10/27/2006, 12:43 PM

Yes, I'm using a Rena air pump. I'll do the test you suggest. Sound logical....thanks.

jumboshrimp18 · 10/27/2006, 03:28 PM

jdieck: many thanks for info. If even a little ozone escapes, can you smell it?

jdieck: A better guideline is boosting the ozone 10 every three days until you get to your optimal level which many think should be no higher than 400.

Dirt4dinner · 10/27/2006, 04:33 PM

Ozone doesn't have to escape to smell it. You can smell it as soon as it starts. Your skimmate will stink like Ozone...it's an odd smell, but not necessarily bad. I have had my new Ozonator running for about 5 hours today, and I could really smell it at first...it's not so bad now. I didn't need any valves or fancy stuff on my "T". It's just an RO hose "T", works great. If I stick my finger over the open part of the "T" I can feel the suction. Don't over complicate the setup....

jdieck · 10/27/2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jumboshrimp18
jdieck: many thanks for info. If even a little ozone escapes, can you smell it?

jdieck: A better guideline is boosting the ozone 10 every three days until you get to your optimal level which many think should be no higher than 400.

Ozone Material Safety Data Sheet as part of health hazards information mentions a detectable level as low as 0.01 to 0.05 ppm.
Inhalation: Causes dryness of the mouth, coughing, and irritates the nose, throat, and chest. May cause difficulty in breathing, headache, and fatigue. The characteristic sharp, irritating odor is readily detectable at low concentrations (0.01 to 0.05 ppm).

So one could assume that it might be detectable but it does not insure it will. Persons are different, a simple cold can alter everyone's perception so in my opinion a system has to be designed to prevent it from escaping otherwise it will be better not to use it.

This is why I suggest to use and regularly replace activated carbon in all potential escape routes. Water out of the skimmer, air out of the skimmer and a carbon filter at the air inlet to the skimmer.

Regarding guidelines unfortunately there is no sure thing. We must really consider that using ORP as a guideline to set up the dose amount is not a perfect system and it is being done this way because there is not other option, not because is the safe way or the proper way.
Just consider that ORP can sharply drop regardless of the real water quality or wether or not Ozone is being added. A simple water change with a salt mix that contains certain supplements, feeding, a non working filter or because of unreliable probs and probs calibrations can make the ORP change significantly.
When the ORP drops, does that mean that Ozone dose shall be increased or if the controller turned it off shall it turn it on again? IMO absolutely not.
The main reason to use Ozone is to allow better removal of organics and tannins and because ORP is meaningless regarding the level of Organics and Tannins in the water, ORP shall not be the target .
To break down organics, amounts as small as 0.06 to 0.1 mg/hr per gallon of system volume are effective so my best guideline will be to use 0.06 mg/hr per gallon, and after a month check for water discoloration that may indicate a slight increase may be advisable.
All this regardless if ORP readings are below the 400 mv level, even below the 300 mv level which in my case happens every time I make a water change and ORP does not recover for another 48 hours.

So in summary my recommendation would be; design your system so Ozone does not escape and use the least amount of Ozone possible in a continuous basis (Rather than large amount in batches) to insure full consumption and to insure more stable operation of the whole system.

Zoom · 10/27/2006, 08:11 PM

I been using ozone for over ten years now i have the ozone unit only running for three hours a day on a timer and when no one is at home.
Yes i use very little ozone to just keep the water clear that is it .
You don't need much i run only 50 Mg to a total 250Gallon system.
I have find out that using the ozonizer continually is a PITA specially in NJ the humidity here is very high and in no time i need to bake the air dry media continually, this usually takes about one hour for the 500 Mg air dryer media at 230F and about 30 minutes for 250 Mg .
And this have to be done weekly here.
I try not to use the air drying media and the ozonizer stop working on me so i had to clean the ozone unit up in one month another PITA .
So running the system with air dryer for three hour a day i only need to bake the air dryer beads every two to three weeks .
I like ozone keeps my water crystal clear .
Here is the way i feed the ozone to the skimmer.

10/26/2006, 02:21 PM	#1
Dirt4dinner Home Growin' SUSHI! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 1,013	Ozone plumbing question? I just got my first Ozone set up and am a little confused on how it connects to the skimmer. Does the hose from the Ozone generator plug directly into the skimmer hose? The previous owner of the Ozone has a T on the end of the Ozone hose, looks like he hooked the Skimmer air hose to this "T" and then the other part of the "T" is broken off. Is this how it should be connected, with 1/3 of the "T" going to the skimmer, 1/3" going to the Ozone, and the last 1/3 just open? Seems like this would allow a lot of Ozone to escape out of that open "T" when the generator is running. Thanks for the advice. Enaly Generator, Milwakie Monitor/ Controller/ ORP Probe.

10/26/2006, 07:46 PM	#3
_K_E_P_ Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 270	That is how most people set it up, I prefer it with a tap on the 1/3 not connected to anything. If the skimmer was connected directly to the ozone it would not be able to suck enough air/ozone mixture for it to skim properly. The extra air inlet allows more air to be sucked in as well as the ozone. If you put your finger over the open 1/3 you can feel it sucking, this is why the ozone doesn't escape out it. If you put your finger over the air intake on the ozone unit you should also feel it sucking so no ozone escapes out there either. Hope I explained it alright. __________________ 60% of the time, it works EVERY time! Current Tank Info: 500L with 90L sump; Deltec APF600; 2x IceCap 250W 14K Hamiltons; 2x 6100 1x6080 Streams

10/26/2006, 07:57 PM	#4
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	This pic may help. The transparent hose is the air suction for the skimmer, the black tubing is the Ozone. __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

10/26/2006, 11:44 PM	#7
Dirt4dinner Home Growin' SUSHI! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 1,013	Thanks very much for the photo! I am going to set it up tomorrow and keep a very close eye on my ORP throughout the day tomorrow. From what I understand I don't want to raise it more than 20 per day, and never over 400. I haven't even got the monitor wet yet, so I don't know what it will be at to start. Thanks again. __________________ I think my fish just farted... 3.15 Gallon AZoo Pico Tank....it's ity bity! Current Tank Info: AZoo 3 gallon Pico Tank

10/26/2006, 11:51 PM	#8
jdieck Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maumee, OH Posts: 15,673	Good Luck! __________________ Did I write what I wrote? What the heck am I talking about! Well..... Nevermind. Current Tank Info: 225 gal reef, DSB, 40 g sump w/ LRT100 return, 37 g pre-sump, 3 MH 250 W 15K, 4 96 W PC dual actinic,ETS 1500 Skim.w/LRT70, 20 lb Ca R., 40 W UV, 1/3 HP chiller, two 350 W Htrs, Neptune II Cont., 330 P LR/ 330 P LS. 55 gal Refugium

10/26/2006, 07:21 PM	#2
jumboshrimp18 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West L.A. Posts: 227	Good question, Tagging on for hopefully an answer from someone who knows. My ozone is set up in the way you mentioned and I am wondering the same thing.

10/26/2006, 11:08 PM	#5
jumboshrimp18 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West L.A. Posts: 227	jdieck: Do you think its possible, the way your inputs are set up, that some ozone escapes out the air intake?

10/27/2006, 06:40 AM	#9
newsalt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 1,143	I tried to plumb my ozone like this: I have a mazzei venturi on the water inlet to my skimmer. The problem I have is that I can feel air coming out of the side of the tee with the valve. I thought I would feel air being sucked in, but I don't. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

10/27/2006, 12:43 PM	#11
newsalt Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 1,143	Yes, I'm using a Rena air pump. I'll do the test you suggest. Sound logical....thanks.

10/27/2006, 03:28 PM	#12
jumboshrimp18 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West L.A. Posts: 227	jdieck: many thanks for info. If even a little ozone escapes, can you smell it? jdieck: A better guideline is boosting the ozone 10 every three days until you get to your optimal level which many think should be no higher than 400.

10/27/2006, 04:33 PM	#13
Dirt4dinner Home Growin' SUSHI! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 1,013	Ozone doesn't have to escape to smell it. You can smell it as soon as it starts. Your skimmate will stink like Ozone...it's an odd smell, but not necessarily bad. I have had my new Ozonator running for about 5 hours today, and I could really smell it at first...it's not so bad now. I didn't need any valves or fancy stuff on my "T". It's just an RO hose "T", works great. If I stick my finger over the open part of the "T" I can feel the suction. Don't over complicate the setup.... __________________ I think my fish just farted... 3.15 Gallon AZoo Pico Tank....it's ity bity! Current Tank Info: AZoo 3 gallon Pico Tank

10/27/2006, 08:11 PM	#15
Zoom Premium Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: S.N.J Posts: 5,706	I been using ozone for over ten years now i have the ozone unit only running for three hours a day on a timer and when no one is at home. Yes i use very little ozone to just keep the water clear that is it . You don't need much i run only 50 Mg to a total 250Gallon system. I have find out that using the ozonizer continually is a PITA specially in NJ the humidity here is very high and in no time i need to bake the air dry media continually, this usually takes about one hour for the 500 Mg air dryer media at 230F and about 30 minutes for 250 Mg . And this have to be done weekly here. I try not to use the air drying media and the ozonizer stop working on me so i had to clean the ozone unit up in one month another PITA . So running the system with air dryer for three hour a day i only need to bake the air dryer beads every two to three weeks . I like ozone keeps my water crystal clear . Here is the way i feed the ozone to the skimmer.