Four Busted for Illegally collecting in FL Keys - Page 2

TopNotch · 11/02/2006, 10:18 PM

Man thats a shame... Bahia Honda is such a beautiful state park. It makes me sad to see something as pristine as that park, being used for someone's illegal personal gain. I have stayed there quite a few times, and cant wait to go back and score some more tarpon.

MyCatsDrool · 11/02/2006, 10:28 PM

I really hope they are seriously punished. As a FL east coast resident, I know we NEED our reef, and people like this need to be punished.

Ryanqk · 11/02/2006, 10:33 PM

yeah this is OUR backyard and I say punish those kentucky fried reef a$$holes! I know about all the sewage and reef destruction but thats no excuse to give the owners of a pet shop a slap on the wrist! I think every tanker that runs up on our reef destroying a football field of our reef should be sunk to make up for it as a artificial reef! but thats just my ugly opinion, they have no bussiness being as close to shore as they get just becuase they want to get in a few hours early!

DamnDamsel · 11/02/2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Yes Curacao & Bonaire, tyring getting out of the tri-state area and it's a totally different world. The other side of the rocks in the below pitcure puts all of our tanks to shame, trust me.

Actually just got back from Cozumel a coupel of days ago. As beautiful as it was we got very depressed when in the middle of what seems to be a pristine place we saw a styrofoam cup floating along. No matter where you go there is always someone who could care less about it all.

Was amazing how much of the reefs were cleaned up by the local dive shops after Wilma. We fret so much about our tanks sometimes then to see a reef that was covered in sand less then a year ago already refilling it was great.

lllosingit · 11/02/2006, 11:16 PM

I agree throw the book at them, In Iowa they can take everything they use to poach.
Not long ago they nailed some guys poaching deer and they confiscated all guns and several vehicles they were using plus they get a very large fine.
Serves them right.

flyhigh123 · 11/02/2006, 11:27 PM

well, what these guys did was bad, but i think what all of us reefers forget is what the fishers in the pacific do... just beacuse they are out of sight, out of mind, does not ignore the fact that collecting in places like fiji, bali are much worse than what these guys do...

Tampareefer · 11/02/2006, 11:57 PM

Too bad the sharks didnt get em. I was Tarpon fishing at bahia honda, right at the bridge for a week and had to 100+ tarpon get completely trashed by 13ft+ hammerheads. It's good to see that they caught these guys even if they will get off easy. Its hard to stop people from taking stuff because its so easy there, full blown reefs at literally 100yrds off the coast there. Im just happy the atleast got caught.

flipteg · 11/03/2006, 12:51 AM

it's "sickening" to collect marine life in US territory, but it's ok that we get our stuff from places in the Pacific Islands, Red Sea, etc. the only difference between the stuff we have in our tanks and the stuff that are in US territory reefs is government regulations... i'm not saying what they did was right... different laws apply in different territories... but that's the only difference, LAWS... everytime i read posts like these, people (the same people who keeps reef tanks) seem to be so disgusted and appalled by the nature of the crime... it seems like most people forget about the concept of it all... it's not just about following laws of different countries... it's about preserving the reefs no matter where it is...

what makes what they do so wrong, and what we do so right...? all of our stuff came from the same limited ecosystem of the reefs... again, the only difference is laws...

bureau13 · 11/03/2006, 02:18 AM

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think the problem is that they were collecting, its that they were collecting on the sly, avoiding the license and circumventing the limits put on collection that are designed to preserve the reef. Nothing wrong with collecting itself per se.

Now...I guess perhaps in that particular area it may not be allowed? But still...I'm pretty sure even in Florida you can collect some stuff legally if you do it right.

(Interestingly enough, I think live rock is specifically prohibited, which just strikes me as misguided and weird)

jds

reefnetworth · 11/03/2006, 02:50 AM

IMO, the judge should make them give away everything (livestock) in their store to a "SeaWorld" type place. and if they wish to continue in buisness post the tickets/fines/etc. on the front door. and a sign that reads somethig like "ALL OUR INHABITANTS LEGALLY PURCHASED, INVOICES PROVIDED AT CUSTOMER REQUEST".

Where's_Nemo · 11/03/2006, 03:05 AM

Sucks to be them....they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent!

spawner · 11/03/2006, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bureau13
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think the problem is that they were collecting, its that they were collecting on the sly, avoiding the license and circumventing the limits put on collection that are designed to preserve the reef. Nothing wrong with collecting itself per se.

Now...I guess perhaps in that particular area it may not be allowed? But still...I'm pretty sure even in Florida you can collect some stuff legally if you do it right.

(Interestingly enough, I think live rock is specifically prohibited, which just strikes me as misguided and weird)

jds

You are correct, perfectly legal to collect in Florida even if you don't have a commercial lisense. For animals that are restricted, a rec. fisherman lisense will allow you to collect a small number of just about anything for your fish tank, live rock and coral's excluded. Commercial lisenses allow you to collect large quanities of live animals and you have what is called a saltwater products lisense that allows you to sell them.

These bright guys were driving down with a van and filling it up with many times the legal limits. PLUS they had illegal marine life, live rock, whole stone crabs with eggs. On top of that a massive holding system, and they've been doing it for 8 years this way.

Its not that you can't or people don't collect in Florida, people make a good living collecting marine life, its that you have to somewhat follow the rules or try to at least, not drive down from KY to take home as much as you can in a week.

kryppy · 11/03/2006, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamnDamsel
Agreed I would love to be able to go collect my own someday without worrying about the law.

You can!

durango_doug · 11/03/2006, 07:32 AM

I'm impressed with the lack of flaming in this thread.

doomicon · 11/03/2006, 07:43 AM

It drives me crazy reading stories like this, especially knowing what good law abiding citizens have to go through to start up a Live Rock company Legally. For an idea of what one Good Company had to go through... Govermental Nightmares

IPowderBlueTang · 11/03/2006, 08:05 AM

"Book em Dano" throw the book at them. I doubt they will get a harsh punishment for being caught the first time!
But sad running a LFS and illegaly harvesting. I guess the business not going to good or not much money to be made in Lfs. Or just GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PrangeWay · 11/03/2006, 09:37 AM

Quote:

it's "sickening" to collect marine life in US territory, but it's ok that we get our stuff from places in the Pacific Islands, Red Sea, etc. the only difference between the stuff we have in our tanks and the stuff that are in US territory reefs is government regulations... i'm not saying what they did was right... different laws apply in different territories... but that's the only difference, LAWS... everytime i read posts like these, people (the same people who keeps reef tanks) seem to be so disgusted and appalled by the nature of the crime... it seems like most people forget about the concept of it all... it's not just about following laws of different countries... it's about preserving the reefs no matter where it is...

This is completely true! This is the fun and ironic part, because everyone saying how horrible it is, has a tank full of fiji rock and pacific corals that where collected aggressively with little or no care to the enviroment, but it's okay since you know it's not happening here. Actually it just hit me that's my tank to. Pacific reefs are being decimated for our hobby and it's okay I guess...

Now that I think about it, I have to remember to start buying reef ceramics or making those garf argonite rocks, or the like instead of looting pacific reefs for live rock... and more aquacultured corlas and fish.

So unless you have man made or aquacutlured rocks, and all aquacultured fish & corals, you'd be hypocritical in judging those collectors as WE are the cause of their actions, they're merely a reaction to our consumer wants.

PW

SDguy · 11/03/2006, 09:48 AM

All of my rock and coral is aquacultured. I think most reefers today strive for this...better for all involved. As for fish, with most having fast repopulation times, and plenty of environmentally friendly ways to collect them, I see no reason to feel bad about not having aquacultured fish. So blaming this on demand by the consumer is a copout, IMO.

doomicon · 11/03/2006, 10:05 AM

All of my fish and corals(softies) are aquacultured as well. Live rock is local.

DarthBaiter · 11/03/2006, 11:11 AM

This is poaching and they need to be fined heavily. If they are going to let these four get away with poaching for a profit for the hobby industry, the lawyers for the commercial fishermen would have a field day. And soon the ocean will be depleted.

fload · 11/03/2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SDguy
All of my rock and coral is aquacultured. I think most reefers today strive for this...better for all involved. As for fish, with most having fast repopulation times, and plenty of environmentally friendly ways to collect them, I see no reason to feel bad about not having aquacultured fish. So blaming this on demand by the consumer is a copout, IMO.

Lol then who would they be harvesting for? How can you say its a copout? If no one is going to buy the rock why would they harvest it?

hawaiianwargod · 11/03/2006, 11:34 AM

Tampareefer
Where's_Nemo

To Reef Central

onehundred20 · 11/03/2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PrangeWay
This is completely true! This is the fun and ironic part, because everyone saying how horrible it is, has a tank full of fiji rock and pacific corals that where collected aggressively with little or no care to the enviroment, but it's okay since you know it's not happening here. Actually it just hit me that's my tank to. Pacific reefs are being decimated for our hobby and it's okay I guess...

Now that I think about it, I have to remember to start buying reef ceramics or making those garf argonite rocks, or the like instead of looting pacific reefs for live rock... and more aquacultured corlas and fish.

So unless you have man made or aquacutlured rocks, and all aquacultured fish & corals, you'd be hypocritical in judging those collectors as WE are the cause of their actions, they're merely a reaction to our consumer wants.

PW

i think the threads more related to the "law" rather than whats right and wrong.

SDguy · 11/03/2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fload
Lol then who would they be harvesting for? How can you say its a copout? If no one is going to buy the rock why would they harvest it?

No one is going out looking for poached LR to buy

(At least I hope not

)

It's a copout because they are illegally collecting LR and selling it instead of buying cultured LR and selling it. Pretty simple.

raskal311 · 11/03/2006, 12:55 PM

This is much more common then you guys may think, just look at eBay.

11/02/2006, 10:18 PM	#26
TopNotch Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 40	Man thats a shame... Bahia Honda is such a beautiful state park. It makes me sad to see something as pristine as that park, being used for someone's illegal personal gain. I have stayed there quite a few times, and cant wait to go back and score some more tarpon. __________________ "Time flies like the wind... Fruit flies like bananas." Current Tank Info: 7 Gallon Nano Reef (LPS & Soft)

11/02/2006, 10:28 PM	#27
MyCatsDrool Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Under the Sea Posts: 377	I really hope they are seriously punished. As a FL east coast resident, I know we NEED our reef, and people like this need to be punished. __________________ I Skim Naked. Recovering Alcoholic/Addict. Humble, but proud of it. Current Tank Info: 10gal nano. 55 gal FW planted. 5 gal FW planted. 125 FW tanganyikan cichlids. 2 gal FW planted

11/02/2006, 10:33 PM	#28
Ryanqk Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,381	yeah this is OUR backyard and I say punish those kentucky fried reef a$$holes! I know about all the sewage and reef destruction but thats no excuse to give the owners of a pet shop a slap on the wrist! I think every tanker that runs up on our reef destroying a football field of our reef should be sunk to make up for it as a artificial reef! but thats just my ugly opinion, they have no bussiness being as close to shore as they get just becuase they want to get in a few hours early! __________________ MOM! I'm God Of The Sea People! Behold my tiny minions gloveling at my likeness! Current Tank Info: 75gl display, 20gl long fuge, CPR overflow, Octopuss NW150 skimmer, 4 x 110w VHO T12's and supplemental actinic, ongoing projects...

11/02/2006, 11:16 PM	#30
lllosingit Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Des Moines Iowa Posts: 3,190	I agree throw the book at them, In Iowa they can take everything they use to poach. Not long ago they nailed some guys poaching deer and they confiscated all guns and several vehicles they were using plus they get a very large fine. Serves them right. __________________ It Was Funny Until Someone Got Hurt..........Then It Was Hilarious! Current Tank Info: DD 250 60x36x27 450 gallon total system.

11/03/2006, 02:50 AM	#35
reefnetworth Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 3,810	IMO, the judge should make them give away everything (livestock) in their store to a "SeaWorld" type place. and if they wish to continue in buisness post the tickets/fines/etc. on the front door. and a sign that reads somethig like "ALL OUR INHABITANTS LEGALLY PURCHASED, INVOICES PROVIDED AT CUSTOMER REQUEST". __________________ GIVE A MAN A FISH, YOU FEED HIM FOR A DAY. TEACH A MAN TO FISH, HE FEEDS HIMSELF FOR LIFE. (NEVER, underestimate another man's greed) Current Tank Info: SPS dominated barebottom display with BB sump since 2005, most consistant parameters in 19+ years of reefkeeping.

11/02/2006, 11:27 PM	#31
flyhigh123 funky member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Hacienda Heights (605 and 60 fwy) Posts: 1,893	well, what these guys did was bad, but i think what all of us reefers forget is what the fishers in the pacific do... just beacuse they are out of sight, out of mind, does not ignore the fact that collecting in places like fiji, bali are much worse than what these guys do...

11/02/2006, 11:57 PM	#32
Tampareefer Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tampa/Gainesville- Florida Posts: 3	Too bad the sharks didnt get em. I was Tarpon fishing at bahia honda, right at the bridge for a week and had to 100+ tarpon get completely trashed by 13ft+ hammerheads. It's good to see that they caught these guys even if they will get off easy. Its hard to stop people from taking stuff because its so easy there, full blown reefs at literally 100yrds off the coast there. Im just happy the atleast got caught.

11/03/2006, 12:51 AM	#33
flipteg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 910	it's "sickening" to collect marine life in US territory, but it's ok that we get our stuff from places in the Pacific Islands, Red Sea, etc. the only difference between the stuff we have in our tanks and the stuff that are in US territory reefs is government regulations... i'm not saying what they did was right... different laws apply in different territories... but that's the only difference, LAWS... everytime i read posts like these, people (the same people who keeps reef tanks) seem to be so disgusted and appalled by the nature of the crime... it seems like most people forget about the concept of it all... it's not just about following laws of different countries... it's about preserving the reefs no matter where it is... what makes what they do so wrong, and what we do so right...? all of our stuff came from the same limited ecosystem of the reefs... again, the only difference is laws...

11/03/2006, 02:18 AM	#34
bureau13 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,936	Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think the problem is that they were collecting, its that they were collecting on the sly, avoiding the license and circumventing the limits put on collection that are designed to preserve the reef. Nothing wrong with collecting itself per se. Now...I guess perhaps in that particular area it may not be allowed? But still...I'm pretty sure even in Florida you can collect some stuff legally if you do it right. (Interestingly enough, I think live rock is specifically prohibited, which just strikes me as misguided and weird) jds

11/03/2006, 03:05 AM	#36
Where's_Nemo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Orange County Posts: 17	Sucks to be them....they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent!

11/03/2006, 07:32 AM	#39
durango_doug Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Missoula, Mt. Posts: 300	I'm impressed with the lack of flaming in this thread.

11/03/2006, 07:43 AM	#40
doomicon Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA(StPete/FL) Posts: 384	It drives me crazy reading stories like this, especially knowing what good law abiding citizens have to go through to start up a Live Rock company Legally. For an idea of what one Good Company had to go through... Govermental Nightmares

11/03/2006, 08:05 AM	#41
IPowderBlueTang Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Canada Posts: 769	"Book em Dano" throw the book at them. I doubt they will get a harsh punishment for being caught the first time! But sad running a LFS and illegaly harvesting. I guess the business not going to good or not much money to be made in Lfs. Or just GREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11/03/2006, 09:48 AM	#43
SDguy Fish heads unite! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: San Diego Posts: 23,384	All of my rock and coral is aquacultured. I think most reefers today strive for this...better for all involved. As for fish, with most having fast repopulation times, and plenty of environmentally friendly ways to collect them, I see no reason to feel bad about not having aquacultured fish. So blaming this on demand by the consumer is a copout, IMO. __________________ Peter SDMAS member Marine tanks since 1989. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º> Current Tank Info: 240g butterfly and angel FOWLR. 15g QT.

11/03/2006, 10:05 AM	#44
doomicon Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA(StPete/FL) Posts: 384	All of my fish and corals(softies) are aquacultured as well. Live rock is local. __________________ Ima n00b, ignore the above text... Current Tank Info: 48x18x25 90g, 30g Sump/Ref, ITech 100 Cone Skimmer, 1x Vortech MP40, 8x54w T5

11/03/2006, 11:11 AM	#45
DarthBaiter Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 662	This is poaching and they need to be fined heavily. If they are going to let these four get away with poaching for a profit for the hobby industry, the lawyers for the commercial fishermen would have a field day. And soon the ocean will be depleted. __________________ "Fluke, I'm yo faddah, come join me on the DockSIde!" Current Tank Info: 90g reef display 30g sump, 75g display 10g sump, 30g cube display, 12g AP reef, 14g BC reef, and a 75g planted livebearer tank.

11/03/2006, 11:34 AM	#47
hawaiianwargod Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 11 54' N, 121 55' E Posts: 1,836	Tampareefer Where's_Nemo *To Reef Central* __________________ "To be a successful reefer, one must master the art of mimicry" ~Hawaiianwargod~ [E] levated [L] evel [O] f [S] weetness Current Tank Info: 210+ - "G" Elos 160XL [~]

11/03/2006, 12:55 PM	#50
raskal311 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Orange County Posts: 5,274	This is much more common then you guys may think, just look at eBay.