Bubble Master Skimmers more info wanted??? - Page 30

Oliver P. · 11/09/2006, 03:04 PM

@lvpd186

Thanks. In fact our BM`s was designed to skim primarily wet. And you are absolutely right that one of the reasons was that the skimmer (tube) doesn't get covered in gunk as much and slow down performance. As mentioned before we made different comparisons and we find out that you can remove more phosphates with a wet adjusted skimmer than a dry adjusted skimmer. Of course there is no significant difference, but we could make mesurement in tanks with low phosphate levels and we are sure that there defently is a difference. The gunk seems to have an influence of the quantity and quality of the skimmable dessolved organic substances.

Past experience has shown that the best adjustment is to skim wet but not so wet that you have the risk of an overflow.

The right picture is a perfect example of a good adjusted skimmer.
Thanks for the picture Ucandoit.

Quote:

but can you post some info about how long the break-in time usually is or if all the pumps should be rinsed in hot water before being used?

Well, to rinse pumps in hot water defently helps to reduce the break-in time. To rinse the complete skimmer in warm water also.
But I can`t say exactly the break-in time for every skimmer. Some (only a few) runs stabil from the first minute and some needs 2-3 weeks. This depends on the remains of the production (especially fatty films). Sometimes there are remains of fat on the O-ring in the pumps and so on.

So, the Break-in time is more a chemical question and not a mechanical question of a skimmer.

Thanks,
Oliver

Maximus · 11/09/2006, 03:12 PM

Oliver, do you know why the BM250's did not come with an O ring on the collection cup? Mine leaks a bit and I bet an O ring would solve the problem. I heard that the 200's come with the O ring.

Mchava · 11/09/2006, 03:16 PM

Oliver P, any news on when the next shippment will be shipped out to the US? Thanks
Mario

Oliver P. · 11/09/2006, 03:32 PM

@Maximus
Greg will have o-rings very soon.

@Mchava
we try our best. We just had a small delay because of a double quality check of all skimmers.

Please contact Greg for further information.
Thanks for your patience.

Creetin · 11/09/2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maximus
Oliver, do you know why the BM250's did not come with an O ring on the collection cup? Mine leaks a bit and I bet an O ring would solve the problem. I heard that the 200's come with the O ring.

Greg told me that the oring would be in the next shippment, and he would send out as soon as he gets them in.

Oliver, With the adjustment a tad lower with the less backpressure i am still getting a wet skimmate. Darker and the foam is there more so now. There is minimal build up on the neck.
I am with you and preffere a lighter skimmate, But it was a tad too light for my taste. NOT that it wouldnt get darker over time i am not questioning that. I just wanted to see if i could get it darker, and i was able to without changing anything that was permanant. I can always go back to stock in a couple of minutes.

Long live the bubble king!!!

hahnmeister · 11/09/2006, 03:59 PM

Keep in mind, Dark vs. Lighter skimmate can mean alot of things...

The skimmate can simply be more concentrated on one person's tank, like a newer tank or one with fresh live rock vs. a well established one.

The skimmer's air throughput, neck diameter, and height can be manipulated to produce darker or lighter skimmate with the exact same water. I prefer slightly taller and narrower necks, because they dont 'overflow' as easily like so many NW designs tend to. Some skimmers rely more on the addition of bubble layers in the head, and the surface tension of the upper layers to be maintained so that the bubbles themselves push each other up and over into the collection cup. Other skimmers just use a narrower (often taller as well) neck to allow the air rushing upwards to push the foam up and out into the cup. These skimmers (a 6' beckett is a good example) often have more dirt and buildup on the inside of the neck, but also produce much darker skimmate while removing the exact same matter as a wetter skimmate... its just been dried out more on the way to the cup. The best skimmers use a little bit of both... a good frothing head, but then a reduction in diameter above this so that the air pushes/pulls the bubbles up and into the skimmer cup. Some skimmers simply pass more air past the skimmate in the collection cup... skimming wet and tea colored at first, but then after a few days the air going through the cup evaporates alot of the water leaving what looks like coffee.

There is no way to know which is better without getting a biologist and chemist involved to sample the skimmate.

One test I do on skimmers is to shut them off and see how long the foam head takes to disappear. The idea goes something like this: the more proteins that a bubble cluster has in it, the longer it will last. On some skimmers, the foam head is sooo dense with proteins that the foam simply stays w/o ever going away. The foam is like plastic foam that has dried and never goes away. Other skimmers dont produce as much skimmate in their foam, but rather rely on massive air and bubble production to move that less dense skimmate up and into the cup before the bubbles dry and pop. These skimmers try to make up for a bad contact time or turbulence by trying to use the surface tension of water to make up for the lack of skimmer performance. If you turn off your skimmer, and the head that you see goes away within a minute... you are just skimming water. If you turn off that skimmer, and you still have clusters, heck a layer of foam that looks like dried snot bubbles (of course it will go down some, but you will still have some left)... you have a more effective skimmer.

Creetin · 11/09/2006, 03:59 PM

I have a new vid of the BM250 running a tad darker with the mod. If you like it a little darker then this is the easiest to do, and doesnt change any of the factory parts. I chopped an nch of the tee where it goes into the skimmer riser pipe, and could probably squeeze 1/2 or 3/4 more if needed. The remaining sides are left alone. Water escapes more easily with 2 exits relieving back pressure.
After the vid i placed the stock tee back on and it went back to the old bubble level and pushe out the dry skimmate that was in there.

.
This is 24 hrs of skimming drier, and notice the dirtier neck? With it like this you would need to clean more frequently, But it is pulling some smelly stuff out! Enough yapping heres the vid.

http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=MVI_1369.flv

UCanDoIt · 11/09/2006, 04:04 PM

great video! looks like you have it set perfectly!!!!! bubble breaking level at the right spot and the foaming has an excellent head on it. you're also getting the darker wet skimmate instead of the light tea color stuff. i would say that you've found the sweet spot for this skimmer!

Creetin · 11/09/2006, 04:05 PM

Hahn, i had a 34 inch beckett, and could overflow the thing very easily. It built up dark crap on the neck but never in the cup.
It was always light.

hahnmeister · 11/09/2006, 04:06 PM

^^^ hey, what can I say... bad design...

bond007069 · 11/09/2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Creetin

Long live the bubble king!!!

dont you mean MASTER

LA-Lawman · 11/09/2006, 06:19 PM

i just cleaned my pump in a hot water and vinegar mix. lets see what happens in a few hours.... I go on vacation monday for a week and am a little worried.

LA-Lawman · 11/09/2006, 06:20 PM

the bubbles are breaking in the neck. still no consistant foam

Creetin · 11/09/2006, 06:40 PM

DOAH! yes i meant BUBBLE MASTER! Sorry oliver i dont know what i was thinking. LOL

Hahn it was a MRC, Pretty much the same design as the aquac, and barr aquatic. So they all must have bad designs?

LA-Lawman · 11/09/2006, 06:42 PM

creetin.... take a look at my pics. is your similar....

Creetin · 11/09/2006, 07:06 PM

It looks similar, But mine builds up after a bit, How many times a day are you feeding your fish and tank? If a couple times a day that could be killing your skimmate till it breaks in, Mine almost shuts down everytime my hands in the tank or i feed the tank.
Try not putting your hands in the water and feeding tomarrow and see what it does.
I bet your skimmer hasnt broken in, and still has oil residue in the body or pump.
Does it build up more than that? Or is that it? Does it go lower?

Creetin · 11/09/2006, 07:08 PM

Plus you hands were in the tank so i would give it an hr or 2 before froth builds up.

hahnmeister · 11/09/2006, 08:10 PM

Thanks for the PM Oliver. I am good with German, but some words are harder than others...

AufstrÃ¶mgeschwindikeit? Is that 'upward current'?

LA-Lawman · 11/09/2006, 08:20 PM

the foam doesn't die when my hand goes in the tank. but i do get foam when i feed. then after about 20mins the skimmer goes nuts....

i have had many skimmers.... i have a bone yard of them. becketts to seaclones and needlewheels left and right.

i am baffled. a solid week saturday even a good cleaning. I might clean it again and see what happens.... I am real bummed

Creetin · 11/09/2006, 08:52 PM

Going crazy, You mean overflowing like maximus's did?

LA-Lawman · 11/09/2006, 09:46 PM

yeah.... since my last post it seems as if it wants to start to skim. i see a head on the foam... so this might be the breakin finally happening. I wish these threadwheels would have a little more mesh on them. i get some knarly large bubbles in the neck and it drives me crazy....

I will take some picts and post them in a bit

Mchava · 11/09/2006, 11:39 PM

Hey folks I know that this thread is only regarding the BM but here is a video my ER w/1260 threaded weel mod. If you notice the foam and the skimmate is verry similar to what Creetin is getting.

UCanDoIt · 11/10/2006, 01:19 AM

Just snapped a few photos, didn't have time to discuss about any details about how this skimmer is doing. I just know that this BM150 was not rinse in either a vinegar solution or warm water like my aquarium technician normally does. He just popped it into his sump and fired it up.

mavgi · 11/10/2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mchava
Hey folks I know that this thread is only regarding the BM but here is a video my ER w/1260 threaded weel mod. If you notice the foam and the skimmate is verry similar to what Creetin is getting.

even if you try on it the old sedra pump with the mesh it will skim like that , the mesh work great on all type of pump .

Creetin · 11/10/2006, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LA-Lawman
yeah.... since my last post it seems as if it wants to start to skim. i see a head on the foam... so this might be the breakin finally happening. I wish these threadwheels would have a little more mesh on them. i get some knarly large bubbles in the neck and it drives me crazy....

I will take some picts and post them in a bit

That leads me to believe that your skimmer isnt broken in yet.
Remember my tank was ripe waiting for this skimmer.
I have faith the foam will come, and if its still a little too light for ya then a cross tee mod lke i did is cheap and easy to do.

11/09/2006, 03:12 PM	#727
Maximus Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Monterey County Posts: 6,442	Oliver, do you know why the BM250's did not come with an O ring on the collection cup? Mine leaks a bit and I bet an O ring would solve the problem. I heard that the 200's come with the O ring. __________________ This space for rent... Current Tank Info: 36x36x16 A.G.E. tank. Lighting: ATI Straton. Circulation: 2x Vortech MP40wQd's. Skimmer: Red Sea 300. Controller: Neptune Apex. Doser: Neptune Dos.

11/09/2006, 03:16 PM	#728
Mchava Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Santa Ana CA Posts: 4,352	Oliver P, any news on when the next shippment will be shipped out to the US? Thanks Mario __________________ Mario

11/09/2006, 03:59 PM	#732
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	I have a new vid of the BM250 running a tad darker with the mod. If you like it a little darker then this is the easiest to do, and doesnt change any of the factory parts. I chopped an nch of the tee where it goes into the skimmer riser pipe, and could probably squeeze 1/2 or 3/4 more if needed. The remaining sides are left alone. Water escapes more easily with 2 exits relieving back pressure. After the vid i placed the stock tee back on and it went back to the old bubble level and pushe out the dry skimmate that was in there. . This is 24 hrs of skimming drier, and notice the dirtier neck? With it like this you would need to clean more frequently, But it is pulling some smelly stuff out! Enough yapping heres the vid. http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=MVI_1369.flv __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

11/09/2006, 04:05 PM	#734
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Hahn, i had a 34 inch beckett, and could overflow the thing very easily. It built up dark crap on the neck but never in the cup. It was always light. __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

11/09/2006, 06:19 PM	#737
LA-Lawman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: So.Cal - Ventura County Posts: 303	i just cleaned my pump in a hot water and vinegar mix. lets see what happens in a few hours.... I go on vacation monday for a week and am a little worried. __________________ -ben -------- "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." -Confucius Current Tank Info: 180g AGA RR, 3 250w DE 14k , 2 160w VHO actinics, ATI BM250 skimmer,RM media reactor, LifeReef LCR-1 CaRX

11/09/2006, 03:32 PM	#729
Oliver P. Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 76	@Maximus Greg will have o-rings very soon. @Mchava we try our best. We just had a small delay because of a double quality check of all skimmers. Please contact Greg for further information. Thanks for your patience.

11/09/2006, 03:59 PM	#731
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Keep in mind, Dark vs. Lighter skimmate can mean alot of things... The skimmate can simply be more concentrated on one person's tank, like a newer tank or one with fresh live rock vs. a well established one. The skimmer's air throughput, neck diameter, and height can be manipulated to produce darker or lighter skimmate with the exact same water. I prefer slightly taller and narrower necks, because they dont 'overflow' as easily like so many NW designs tend to. Some skimmers rely more on the addition of bubble layers in the head, and the surface tension of the upper layers to be maintained so that the bubbles themselves push each other up and over into the collection cup. Other skimmers just use a narrower (often taller as well) neck to allow the air rushing upwards to push the foam up and out into the cup. These skimmers (a 6' beckett is a good example) often have more dirt and buildup on the inside of the neck, but also produce much darker skimmate while removing the exact same matter as a wetter skimmate... its just been dried out more on the way to the cup. The best skimmers use a little bit of both... a good frothing head, but then a reduction in diameter above this so that the air pushes/pulls the bubbles up and into the skimmer cup. Some skimmers simply pass more air past the skimmate in the collection cup... skimming wet and tea colored at first, but then after a few days the air going through the cup evaporates alot of the water leaving what looks like coffee. There is no way to know which is better without getting a biologist and chemist involved to sample the skimmate. One test I do on skimmers is to shut them off and see how long the foam head takes to disappear. The idea goes something like this: the more proteins that a bubble cluster has in it, the longer it will last. On some skimmers, the foam head is sooo dense with proteins that the foam simply stays w/o ever going away. The foam is like plastic foam that has dried and never goes away. Other skimmers dont produce as much skimmate in their foam, but rather rely on massive air and bubble production to move that less dense skimmate up and into the cup before the bubbles dry and pop. These skimmers try to make up for a bad contact time or turbulence by trying to use the surface tension of water to make up for the lack of skimmer performance. If you turn off your skimmer, and the head that you see goes away within a minute... you are just skimming water. If you turn off that skimmer, and you still have clusters, heck a layer of foam that looks like dried snot bubbles (of course it will go down some, but you will still have some left)... you have a more effective skimmer.

11/09/2006, 04:04 PM	#733
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	great video! looks like you have it set perfectly!!!!! bubble breaking level at the right spot and the foaming has an excellent head on it. you're also getting the darker wet skimmate instead of the light tea color stuff. i would say that you've found the sweet spot for this skimmer!

11/09/2006, 04:06 PM	#735
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	^^^ hey, what can I say... bad design...

11/09/2006, 06:20 PM	#738
LA-Lawman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: So.Cal - Ventura County Posts: 303	the bubbles are breaking in the neck. still no consistant foam __________________ -ben -------- "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." -Confucius Current Tank Info: 180g AGA RR, 3 250w DE 14k , 2 160w VHO actinics, ATI BM250 skimmer,RM media reactor, LifeReef LCR-1 CaRX Last edited by LA-Lawman; 11/09/2006 at 06:41 PM.

11/09/2006, 06:40 PM	#739
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	DOAH! yes i meant BUBBLE MASTER! Sorry oliver i dont know what i was thinking. LOL Hahn it was a MRC, Pretty much the same design as the aquac, and barr aquatic. So they all must have bad designs? __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

11/09/2006, 06:42 PM	#740
LA-Lawman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: So.Cal - Ventura County Posts: 303	creetin.... take a look at my pics. is your similar.... __________________ -ben -------- "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." -Confucius Current Tank Info: 180g AGA RR, 3 250w DE 14k , 2 160w VHO actinics, ATI BM250 skimmer,RM media reactor, LifeReef LCR-1 CaRX

11/09/2006, 07:06 PM	#741
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	It looks similar, But mine builds up after a bit, How many times a day are you feeding your fish and tank? If a couple times a day that could be killing your skimmate till it breaks in, Mine almost shuts down everytime my hands in the tank or i feed the tank. Try not putting your hands in the water and feeding tomarrow and see what it does. I bet your skimmer hasnt broken in, and still has oil residue in the body or pump. Does it build up more than that? Or is that it? Does it go lower? __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

11/09/2006, 07:08 PM	#742
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Plus you hands were in the tank so i would give it an hr or 2 before froth builds up. __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

11/09/2006, 08:10 PM	#743
hahnmeister Moved On Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Brew City, WI Posts: 10,156	Thanks for the PM Oliver. I am good with German, but some words are harder than others... AufstrÃ¶mgeschwindikeit? Is that 'upward current'?

11/09/2006, 08:20 PM	#744
LA-Lawman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: So.Cal - Ventura County Posts: 303	the foam doesn't die when my hand goes in the tank. but i do get foam when i feed. then after about 20mins the skimmer goes nuts.... i have had many skimmers.... i have a bone yard of them. becketts to seaclones and needlewheels left and right. i am baffled. a solid week saturday even a good cleaning. I might clean it again and see what happens.... I am real bummed __________________ -ben -------- "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." -Confucius Current Tank Info: 180g AGA RR, 3 250w DE 14k , 2 160w VHO actinics, ATI BM250 skimmer,RM media reactor, LifeReef LCR-1 CaRX

11/09/2006, 08:52 PM	#745
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	Going crazy, You mean overflowing like maximus's did? __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

11/09/2006, 09:46 PM	#746
LA-Lawman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: So.Cal - Ventura County Posts: 303	yeah.... since my last post it seems as if it wants to start to skim. i see a head on the foam... so this might be the breakin finally happening. I wish these threadwheels would have a little more mesh on them. i get some knarly large bubbles in the neck and it drives me crazy.... I will take some picts and post them in a bit __________________ -ben -------- "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." -Confucius Current Tank Info: 180g AGA RR, 3 250w DE 14k , 2 160w VHO actinics, ATI BM250 skimmer,RM media reactor, LifeReef LCR-1 CaRX

11/09/2006, 11:39 PM	#747
Mchava Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Santa Ana CA Posts: 4,352	Hey folks I know that this thread is only regarding the BM but here is a video my ER w/1260 threaded weel mod. If you notice the foam and the skimmate is verry similar to what Creetin is getting. __________________ Mario

11/10/2006, 01:19 AM	#748
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	For those who wanted BM150 photos Just snapped a few photos, didn't have time to discuss about any details about how this skimmer is doing. I just know that this BM150 was not rinse in either a vinegar solution or warm water like my aquarium technician normally does. He just popped it into his sump and fired it up.