new tank and sugar

00nothing · 01/26/2007, 01:22 PM

somewhere during the nitrate reduction using sugar thread i read that someone used sugar to induce a bacterial bloom in a new tank, how much sugar would one add

I have a 55 gallon i recently setup isued a mix of live and base rock and an entirely new sand bed except for a couple of peppermints a few snails and very few corals that were left from my 30 gallon there really isnt much in the tank i am planning to leave the tank fishless for at least 6 weeks as the reason i dont have any fish is because i lost everything to ich in my 30 gallon

the sugar dosing has me very interested it is right in my budget basically free and i really dont have anything to lose right now and if this will help keep me out of cyano and diatom outbreaks during the tank reestablishing hey even better

any advice or opinions ?

rustybucket145 · 01/26/2007, 01:27 PM

I personally wouldn't do it. Throw in a cocktail shrimp for the cycle.

Sugar in a tank just doesn't make any sense to me.

00nothing · 01/26/2007, 01:30 PM

Hopefully I havnt started another it doesnt work thread, many people have been using vodka and sugar with success.

Wether it works or not right now i am in the lets give it a try state of mind but as with anything in this hobby would like to proceed cautiously

I am basically starting from scratch so dont have much to lose

Toledofishguy · 01/26/2007, 01:57 PM

Why bother adding completely foreign substances to your tank when you can add cocktail shrimp or live rock to start the cycling process? Patience.

I've seen threads and bad advice about peeing in your tank to start the cycle. Not only is it difficult to get your leg up that high, it sounds odd.

RichConley · 01/26/2007, 02:28 PM

I love how people who have absolutely no experience feel the need to make comments on things they dont understand.

Yes, sugar will cause a bacterial bloom. Yes, it will take out nitrogen/phosphates via your skimmer.

If theres live rock in your tank, theres absolutely no need to add cocktail shrimp or anything else to increase nutrients, you'll have plenty just from moving the rock, and stirring up any crap that was in the rock.

The sugar may keep the levels low enough that your shrimp survive. Just be careful with it, as too much will cause the bacteria to eat up all the oxygen

Toledofishguy · 01/26/2007, 02:52 PM

If you read the message I didnt say sugar would not work/ provide whatever, etc. I said patience as best practice. Add a cocktail shrimp, add live rock, or whatever. Why add outside substances like sugar or vodka to your tank if you dont need to. Since he already has live rock, a little patience and he'll be fine.

I did not insult anyone, so please do not insult me.

rustybucket145 · 01/26/2007, 03:04 PM

Uhh.... yeah, I didn't mean anything insulting by my comments either. I was just stating my opinion. That is, after all, what the poster asked for. Discouraging people to post is not a very good way to get a diversified answer and be able to make your own decision. As we all know, what works for one tank may not for another. To each his own. So Rich, you may continue pouring Vodka down the drain of your tank, and I will continue pouring it down the drain of my throat and we'll both be happy

!! After all it is friday!!

My opinion is that if you start it off natural and don't dose anything you will wind up with a completely self-sufficient tank that you don't have to give a spoonful of sugar or a shot of vodka a day. Why waste good vodka like that?? Besides it being a major PITA vodka and sugar aren't cheap!! And the neighbors might not mind letting you borrow sugar, but they might balk at the vodka.

I guess I might have jumped the gun on the shrimp thing I missed the 'live rock' portion of the initial post, just got the 'base rock'. My bad.

rustybucket145 · 01/26/2007, 03:08 PM

Rich:

Quote:

I love how people who have absolutely no experience feel the need to make comments on things they dont understand.

That is one very ignorant statement.

zacharytrimble · 01/26/2007, 03:15 PM

Ok, so uh, is anyone actually gonna answer this poor person's question?

I sometimes add sugar for nitrate reduction...I do a teaspoon for my 75 and that is definately enough. Maybe half a teaspoon for you...better to start slow.

Guys and Gals,...let's play devil's advocate .....adding sugar I don't think is unnatural...it's simply putting carbs into the system which is what the bacteria eat.....it simply speeds the process. Let the person decide for themselves if they want to be a little progressive or not.

Toledofishguy · 01/26/2007, 03:17 PM

Rustybucket is right. This is a place for opinions. The peeing your tank comment I made was an extremely bad opinion mentioned to a reefer by a bad store employee. I saw it in a post in the past. While vodka and sugar have validity, as rusty said, starting off naturally will lead you down the path of success.

Rustybuck is the name of a popular chain of pubs here in Ohio.

kj5432 · 01/26/2007, 03:18 PM

I personally would put anything in a tank that would cause an algae bloom. Why would you want to cause an algae bloom.
All you have to do to start the cycle is usually "Nothing" just let it happen. If you are really impatient just feed the new tank and that will cause the new set up to cycle.

Toledofishguy · 01/26/2007, 03:19 PM

Its kinda funny. I have been on RC for 6 yrs and that was the first time I actually felt offended.

OOnothing whatever route you choose, keep us posted on your experiments and progress.

RichConley · 01/26/2007, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toledofishguy
Why add outside substances like sugar or vodka to your tank if you dont need to.

RustyBucket, how is this above post anything but ignorant, and "I dont understand why, so dont do it".

How is adding cocktail shrimp any less of an outside substance than adding sugar?

I'm not saying he should use sugar, I'm saying people shouldn't comment about whether or not he should if they dont understand how it works/doesnt work.

How is Kalk not an "outside substance"? How is Food? Etc? Everything we add to our tanks is an "outside substance"

Toledofishguy · 01/26/2007, 03:27 PM

I think further posts should come with a disclaimer:

Dear RC users,

From now on the word "outside substances" should be used to discribe anything you put in your tank. Please watch your synonyms closely or we will slap an ignorant claim on you and you will hereby not be allowed to post your opinion again. Furthermore, calling someone ignorant automatically gives you 10 additional man points and makes you a marine biologist. Your opinion matters 10 times more than any other reefer without these man points.

rustybucket145 · 01/26/2007, 03:27 PM

I guess my original statement was a little open-ended. Should have tagged the end with....

"Sugar in a tank just doesn't make any sense to me, << when you can get the same results from natural methods>>. "

Sorry if I misled.

Oh, and Rich, shrimp live in the ocean. That would make them native to saltwater, therefore making them 'natural'.

Although, in your defense I have seen Vodka bottles and Rum Bottles floating around in the ocean. Maybe if we could devise a way to propagate the vodka we would be in business!!

Toledofishguy · 01/26/2007, 03:28 PM

I'd like to apologize for the immaturity on that post. Have a great weekend Rich.

RichConley · 01/26/2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rustybucket145
I guess my original statement was a little open-ended. Should have tagged the end with....

"Sugar in a tank just doesn't make any sense to me, << when you can get the same results from natural methods>>. "

Sorry if I misled.

Oh, and Rich, shrimp live in the ocean. That would make them native to saltwater, therefore making them 'natural'.

Yeah, and theres plenty of sugar based substances in the ocean, making it natural.

rustybucket145 · 01/26/2007, 03:29 PM

Awesome! I'm a marine biologist!! YAY!

rustybucket145 · 01/26/2007, 03:32 PM

All in good fun! You guys and gals have a great weekend. Sorry your thread got a little out of hand 00nothing. I apologize.

Either way you decide to go be sure to document your progress and share it with us here on RC. And congrats on your new tank, hope it works out better than your 30gal.

Aqua Keepers · 01/26/2007, 04:08 PM

If the sugar feeds the bacs that he introduced with the LR from his old tank causeing a bac bloom, would'nt that create a faster less harsh cycle?

racer69 · 01/26/2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kj5432
I personally would put anything in a tank that would cause an algae bloom. Why would you want to cause an algae bloom.
All you have to do to start the cycle is usually "Nothing" just let it happen. If you are really impatient just feed the new tank and that will cause the new set up to cycle.

It will not cause an algae bloom, it will cause a bacterial bloom which will eat the nutrients in your tank. Less nutrients equals less algae. It is a carbon source and many people have used it to establish a bacterial colony which in turn creates less of a cycle. Jeeesh!

00nothing · 01/26/2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pito
If the sugar feeds the bacs that he introduced with the LR from his old tank causeing a bac bloom, would'nt that create a faster less harsh cycle?

this is my intention and why i posted in the first place my skimmer is not hooked up yet though and i am waiting for it first to make up for the lack of oxygen and i also have to find my brand new seachem test kit that my wife claims she put away somewhere that she could find it later

IN OTHER WORDS "I put it somewhere honey and have no clue where it is"

Nabber86 · 01/26/2007, 08:26 PM

Going back to the beginning of the thread I have to ask, why would somebody put a fairly controversal substance such as sugar in a new tank? You just spent a bunch of money on a new tank that presumably has no problems (yet). Sugar may help and sugar may hurt. Who really knows enough to risk $1000's of dollars to find out?. For the benefit of what? Cycling your tank faster? The risks arent worth the rewards IMHE.

Anyway, if you want to experiment, go for it.

reefshadow · 01/26/2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Going back to the beginning of the thread I have to ask, why would somebody put a fairly controversal substance such as sugar in a new tank? You just spent a bunch of money on a new tank that presumably has no problems (yet).

Seems weird, eh? But really it's a jump start that most folks have to wait a year + to get, and may never get. I think big stable populations of bacs is one thing that makes a tank "mature", have LESS problems, and be ready to support the life we put into it best.

Really everything that we put in our tanks is "food" but vodka/sugar/vinegar are just super foods that can get you the same result much quicker, with less associated problems, such as impurities.

Yes, be carefull with o2 like Rich stated.
Start with very tiny doses to give it time to get established.
Don't suddenly cut off the source of food.

There are some mighty big believers in the Zeo methods and similar. Same concept as using sugar/vodka, different methodologies. You guys should check it out if you haven't, it's interesting.

Aqua Keepers · 01/26/2007, 11:40 PM

Well put reefshadow. I noticed that the Prodibio products are the same too. I don't think sugar is as controversal as you think. We know it works. It's just a matter of figuring out a dose schedual. Most of the posts I've read in which people were haveing probs were going to much too fast. You need to start slow. Also 00nothing isnt risking thousands of dollard. He doesn't have any live stock and sugar is'nt going to ruin the equipment. And c'mon guys. We use vinigar, driveway salt, epsom salt, bakeing soda, and all kinds of other stuff that gives us results that we want. So whey the heck not sugar.

I'd do it if I were 00nothing.

01/26/2007, 01:22 PM	#1
00nothing Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: angus, Ontario, Canada Posts: 740	new tank and sugar somewhere during the nitrate reduction using sugar thread i read that someone used sugar to induce a bacterial bloom in a new tank, how much sugar would one add I have a 55 gallon i recently setup isued a mix of live and base rock and an entirely new sand bed except for a couple of peppermints a few snails and very few corals that were left from my 30 gallon there really isnt much in the tank i am planning to leave the tank fishless for at least 6 weeks as the reason i dont have any fish is because i lost everything to ich in my 30 gallon the sugar dosing has me very interested it is right in my budget basically free and i really dont have anything to lose right now and if this will help keep me out of cyano and diatom outbreaks during the tank reestablishing hey even better any advice or opinions ?

01/26/2007, 01:27 PM	#2
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	I personally wouldn't do it. Throw in a cocktail shrimp for the cycle. Sugar in a tank just doesn't make any sense to me. __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

01/26/2007, 01:57 PM	#4
Toledofishguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 884	Why bother adding completely foreign substances to your tank when you can add cocktail shrimp or live rock to start the cycling process? Patience. I've seen threads and bad advice about peeing in your tank to start the cycle. Not only is it difficult to get your leg up that high, it sounds odd. __________________ Mike - Columbus Current Tank Info: 120 under t-5 lighting

01/26/2007, 02:28 PM	#5
RichConley Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bostonian in Chicago going to DC Posts: 9,908	I love how people who have absolutely no experience feel the need to make comments on things they dont understand. Yes, sugar will cause a bacterial bloom. Yes, it will take out nitrogen/phosphates via your skimmer. If theres live rock in your tank, theres absolutely no need to add cocktail shrimp or anything else to increase nutrients, you'll have plenty just from moving the rock, and stirring up any crap that was in the rock. The sugar may keep the levels low enough that your shrimp survive. Just be careful with it, as too much will cause the bacteria to eat up all the oxygen __________________ NO TANKS!!!

01/26/2007, 02:52 PM	#6
Toledofishguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 884	If you read the message I didnt say sugar would not work/ provide whatever, etc. I said patience as best practice. Add a cocktail shrimp, add live rock, or whatever. Why add outside substances like sugar or vodka to your tank if you dont need to. Since he already has live rock, a little patience and he'll be fine. I did not insult anyone, so please do not insult me. __________________ Mike - Columbus Current Tank Info: 120 under t-5 lighting

01/26/2007, 01:30 PM	#3
00nothing Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: angus, Ontario, Canada Posts: 740	Hopefully I havnt started another it doesnt work thread, many people have been using vodka and sugar with success. Wether it works or not right now i am in the lets give it a try state of mind but as with anything in this hobby would like to proceed cautiously I am basically starting from scratch so dont have much to lose

01/26/2007, 03:04 PM	#7
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	Uhh.... yeah, I didn't mean anything insulting by my comments either. I was just stating my opinion. That is, after all, what the poster asked for. Discouraging people to post is not a very good way to get a diversified answer and be able to make your own decision. As we all know, what works for one tank may not for another. To each his own. So Rich, you may continue pouring Vodka down the drain of your tank, and I will continue pouring it down the drain of my throat and we'll both be happy !! After all it is friday!! My opinion is that if you start it off natural and don't dose anything you will wind up with a completely self-sufficient tank that you don't have to give a spoonful of sugar or a shot of vodka a day. Why waste good vodka like that?? Besides it being a major PITA vodka and sugar aren't cheap!! And the neighbors might not mind letting you borrow sugar, but they might balk at the vodka. I guess I might have jumped the gun on the shrimp thing I missed the 'live rock' portion of the initial post, just got the 'base rock'. My bad. __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

01/26/2007, 03:15 PM	#9
zacharytrimble Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 456	Ok, so uh, is anyone actually gonna answer this poor person's question? I sometimes add sugar for nitrate reduction...I do a teaspoon for my 75 and that is definately enough. Maybe half a teaspoon for you...better to start slow. Guys and Gals,...let's play devil's advocate .....adding sugar I don't think is unnatural...it's simply putting carbs into the system which is what the bacteria eat.....it simply speeds the process. Let the person decide for themselves if they want to be a little progressive or not.

01/26/2007, 03:17 PM	#10
Toledofishguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 884	Rustybucket is right. This is a place for opinions. The peeing your tank comment I made was an extremely bad opinion mentioned to a reefer by a bad store employee. I saw it in a post in the past. While vodka and sugar have validity, as rusty said, starting off naturally will lead you down the path of success. Rustybuck is the name of a popular chain of pubs here in Ohio. __________________ Mike - Columbus Current Tank Info: 120 under t-5 lighting

01/26/2007, 03:18 PM	#11
kj5432 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 198	I personally would put anything in a tank that would cause an algae bloom. Why would you want to cause an algae bloom. All you have to do to start the cycle is usually "Nothing" just let it happen. If you are really impatient just feed the new tank and that will cause the new set up to cycle.

01/26/2007, 03:19 PM	#12
Toledofishguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 884	Its kinda funny. I have been on RC for 6 yrs and that was the first time I actually felt offended. OOnothing whatever route you choose, keep us posted on your experiments and progress. __________________ Mike - Columbus Current Tank Info: 120 under t-5 lighting

01/26/2007, 03:27 PM	#14
Toledofishguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 884	I think further posts should come with a disclaimer: Dear RC users, From now on the word "outside substances" should be used to discribe anything you put in your tank. Please watch your synonyms closely or we will slap an ignorant claim on you and you will hereby not be allowed to post your opinion again. Furthermore, calling someone ignorant automatically gives you 10 additional man points and makes you a marine biologist. Your opinion matters 10 times more than any other reefer without these man points. __________________ Mike - Columbus Current Tank Info: 120 under t-5 lighting

01/26/2007, 03:28 PM	#16
Toledofishguy Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 884	I'd like to apologize for the immaturity on that post. Have a great weekend Rich. __________________ Mike - Columbus Current Tank Info: 120 under t-5 lighting

01/26/2007, 03:29 PM	#18
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	Awesome! I'm a marine biologist!! YAY! __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

01/26/2007, 03:32 PM	#19
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	All in good fun! You guys and gals have a great weekend. Sorry your thread got a little out of hand 00nothing. I apologize. Either way you decide to go be sure to document your progress and share it with us here on RC. And congrats on your new tank, hope it works out better than your 30gal. __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

01/26/2007, 04:08 PM	#20
Aqua Keepers Moved On Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Clearwater,Fl Posts: 2,915	If the sugar feeds the bacs that he introduced with the LR from his old tank causeing a bac bloom, would'nt that create a faster less harsh cycle?

01/26/2007, 08:26 PM	#23
Nabber86 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stalewater Kansas Posts: 408	Going back to the beginning of the thread I have to ask, why would somebody put a fairly controversal substance such as sugar in a *new* tank? You just spent a bunch of money on a new tank that presumably has no problems (yet). Sugar may help and sugar may hurt. Who really knows enough to risk $1000's of dollars to find out?. For the benefit of what? Cycling your tank faster? The risks arent worth the rewards IMHE. Anyway, if you want to experiment, go for it.

01/26/2007, 11:40 PM	#25
Aqua Keepers Moved On Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Clearwater,Fl Posts: 2,915	Well put reefshadow. I noticed that the Prodibio products are the same too. I don't think sugar is as controversal as you think. We know it works. It's just a matter of figuring out a dose schedual. Most of the posts I've read in which people were haveing probs were going to much too fast. You need to start slow. Also 00nothing isnt risking thousands of dollard. He doesn't have any live stock and sugar is'nt going to ruin the equipment. And c'mon guys. We use vinigar, driveway salt, epsom salt, bakeing soda, and all kinds of other stuff that gives us results that we want. So whey the heck not sugar. I'd do it if I were 00nothing.