best skimmer for up to $500 - Page 2

manderx · 01/18/2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

if your thinking about the tunze 9015, mabye just get the 9010, it's exactly the same except they don t charge you $150 for a bigger collection cup, the only difference between the 2 models.

yeah, i don't get the huge pricing difference between the 9010 and 9015. though i have the 9010 and would *love* a bigger cup just so i wouldn't have to dump it every 36 hours. it's amazing how much that little thing can skim.

Greg 45 · 01/18/2007, 02:30 PM

IMO
skimmer MTC HSA 1000 Est. $650.00
ballast EVC electronic
luminarc hoods

BryanJ · 01/18/2007, 10:16 PM

What is the budget on the lighting? Retro or fixture?

mnestroy · 01/18/2007, 10:50 PM

I'm confused, can somebody give me some background on these 'bubble master' skimmers?

Are they new?
Why can't I find anyone that carries them?
How do they have such a great rep?

UCanDoIt · 01/18/2007, 11:00 PM

Just release in USA about 3 months ago.

Snausages01 · 01/18/2007, 11:59 PM

What do they cost? What are the specs for them? I check the sites listed in this thread, but they didn't provide much information unless I was just looking in the wrong place.

pjf · 01/19/2007, 12:11 AM

The ATI Bubble Master in-sump skimmer uses a thread-wheel in place of a needle-wheel. It uses a pump similar to the Tunze pump. Here is a review of the ATI Bubble Master in the Singapore Reef Club forum: http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...howtopic=51766

Here is an ATI Bubble Master thread in the ReefGeek forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=985567. Near the bottom of the first page is a 1/03/07 price list posted by UCanDoIt.

They are sold by www.reefgeek.com but there is no information on these skimmers on the website. You have to inquire.

UCanDoIt · 01/19/2007, 12:20 AM

Be prepare to do a lot of reading as within this thread is multiple threads and over 1,500 posts. Also, within those threads references other countries that has already started using them earlier.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=985567

As for buying them from a dealer, you can buy them from the exclusive importer, ReefGeek or any of the other dealers that may have them in stock. All the other dealers buy them from ReefGeek as they are authorized dealers for this product through ReefGee. Prices are protected, so whoever you buy from, it will be the same price. CA hobbyists must pay sales tax.

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
Originally posted by UCanDoIt
Slingshot - Check your PM inbox on how to calculate the right size skimmer to buy as well as who you can buy from. If you need any specs, just search through the threads or PM me back. Good luck!

The exclusive importer for the ATi Bubblemaster skimmer is ReefGeek.com and this is their sponsor forum. I know my local dealer carries them
http://home.wwdb.org/kmaintl

and below is the post of other dealers that carries inventory on the Bubblemaster skimmers...

Originally posted by ReefGeek-Greg
We have many authorized dealers, but at this time only 3 have placed stocking orders for the new Bubble Master Skimmers. They should have skimmers in stock next week.

Barrier Reef Aquariums - 425-277-7670
Renton, WA
http://www.barrierreefaquariums.com/

Blue Ribbon Koi Products, Inc - 703-753-7566
Catharpin, VA
http://www.blueribbonkoi.com/

The Aquarium Gallery - 603-579-AQUA (2782)
Hudson, NH
http://www.theaquariumgallery.com/

Greg

pjf · 01/19/2007, 12:35 AM

UCanDoIt,

I notice from your gallery that you have used a Deltec, an H&S, and perhaps a Bubble Master. Other than the fact that the BM is in-sump, how do their base models compare in skimming performance (BM-150, Deltec AP600, H&S A110)?

PS - Thanks for your sketch of how to plumb an external skimmer.

skimmy · 01/19/2007, 09:45 AM

the ati bm 150 would kick the deltec apf600's butt, i've used both

pjf · 01/19/2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by koraltek
the ati bm 150 would kick the deltec apf600's butt, i've used both

It's good to know how two skimmers compare on the same system. Did you directly feed your Deltec APF600 from the overflow or did you use a feed pump? Thanks!

UCanDoIt · 01/19/2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by koraltek
the ati bm 150 would kick the deltec apf600's butt, i've used both

I have to disagree here as my local dealer has tested and evaluated all 3 ATi Bubblemaster skimmers. When he pulled the BM150 off and started testing the BM200, I personally set this up on his 100g REEF next to the APF600 side by side. I know the BM200 kicks Deltec APF600's butt as it performs more like AP701, but the BM150 kicking the APF600 is questionable.

UCanDoIt · 01/19/2007, 11:15 AM

Here's a photo I took the next day after I set the 2 up. Both skimmers were broken in and foaming well... can you see the gunk builtup in the Deltec APF600's neck in just 30 hours? Even though the Deltec was adjusted to skim very wet, see how much darker the skimmate is compared to the BM150. Just my 2 cents...

skimmy · 01/19/2007, 12:26 PM

well, i 'll definately agree that the ati skims wetter, but when i ran them the ati produced more skimmate, granted, this deltec was using a maxijet for a feed, not direct from the o.f. box.
truth be told i probably could have cranked the deltec up and added a little more air(the air valve was at 2:00), and i could have closed the ball valve a little more.
but the fact that i got identical if not better results out of a skimmer that cost a little more than half of the deltec was the most impressive thing, so i am probably a little bias

Roland Jacques · 01/19/2007, 12:57 PM

Youcandoit, I for one, love that comparision photo.

UCanDoIt · 01/19/2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
Youcandoit, I for one, love that comparision photo.

Just for you Roland, it was the only photo Ed would allow me to take.

pjf · 01/19/2007, 02:02 PM

UCanDoIt,

It's amazing that you've been able to see the best skimmers in the marketplace side-by-side. Have you been able to compare the BM-150 with the ER-RC80, H&S AP110, or the Tunze 9010/9015?

I believe that all of them cost less than $500 (if you leave off the tax and shipping).

Thanks!

UCanDoIt · 01/19/2007, 02:10 PM

Nope on the new EuroReef as my local dealer has discontinued carrying them because of poor performance in the past. Of course, that's only compared to the better skimmers he's carrying now. But all the new ER with the Eheim pumps and new impellers look very promising, but he will not be carrying ER anymore for other reasons besides poor performance history. As for Tunze, I think he's will be considering that evaluation for this year. I think he's waiting for the latest line to come out with the new Sicci pumps first (same as the Bubblemaster pumps).

In terms of built and performance, you can't beat the H&S. Also, I am very biased towards recirulating skimmers as they are much more easier to fine tune and control... also not subject to sump waterlevel changes or chemical changes like putting your hand in the sump or feeding or dosing your tank... they just keep skimming and kick right back after any chemical changes. If you're not concerned about built and want the performance, then the BM is definitely a great choice. I have seen all good reviews on the Tunze, but have no idea what category they fall into.

pjf · 01/19/2007, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
As for Tunze, I think he's will be considering that evaluation for this year. I think he's waiting for the latest line to come out with the new Sicci pumps first.

Hmm... I thought the Tunzes always used the same Sicci pumps in the Bubble Masters. Are we talking about a new version of the Sicci pump or has Tunze used another pump in the past?

How does the BM-150 stack up against the H&S A110?

UCanDoIt · 01/19/2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
..... In terms of built and performance, you can't beat the H&S. Also, I am very biased towards recirulating skimmers as they are much more easier to fine tune and control... also not subject to sump waterlevel changes or chemical changes like putting your hand in the sump or feeding or dosing your tank... they just keep skimming and kick right back after any chemical changes. If you're not concerned about built and want the performance, then the BM is definitely a great choice.....

I don't know anything about the Tunzes, but I heard they work well. I'm not exactly sure when my dealer will be testing them, but I'm pretty sure he was waiting for something on the Sicci pumps.

pjf · 01/19/2007, 07:32 PM

UCanDoIt,

You have quite a range of experience with top-end skimmers. Can we assume that for skimmers under $500 that you have experience with,

â€¢ The H&S A110 ($460) external recirculating skimmer is your favorite
â€¢ The ATI Bubble Master 150 ($399) in-sump skimmer is a close second choice?

Are there any other skimmers under $500 that belong in your short list?

UCanDoIt · 01/19/2007, 07:39 PM

If we are NOT just judging a skimmer by performance only, then yes, that would be my choice. There's a lot of factors that would go into my decision making on a skimmer now, but others don't have the same criterias.

My all time favorite is the H&S A150 for more $$$ and I would use it to protect anything from a small tank to as big as a 180g.

pjf · 01/30/2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
Also, I am very biased towards recirulating skimmers as they are much more easier to fine tune and control... also not subject to sump waterlevel changes or chemical changes like putting your hand in the sump or feeding or dosing your tank... they just keep skimming and kick right back after any chemical changes.

UCanDoIt,

I've got two questions and would like to "pick your brain" as I am still looking into external recirculating skimmers, such as an H&S.

(1) How does an external recirculating skimmer that is plumbed to an overflow provide better tuning and control? My impression is that most external recirculating skimmers are fed by a sump pump in order to better control the inflow.

(2) How is an external recirculating skimmer more immune to changes wrought by feeding, dosing and placing one's hand in the water?

Thanks!

UCanDoIt · 01/30/2007, 11:11 AM

pjf - plumbing the skimmer to be gravity fed by your tank's overflow does not give you better control, but it does give you an edge to skim out the most concentrated protein, oils, foods, organics which is skim off the surface of your tank and passes through your overflow box... so, if you grab that raw tank water before it does anything, you'll have a slight edge in better skimmate. subjectively, it is 15%-20% better skimming than non-recirculating skimmers. the total control comes from being able to pass the raw tank water through the skimmer at a rate that you choose, so you are not subject to what the non-recirculating skimmer's pump pushes through the skimmer. the pump on a non-recirculating skimmer has 2 function, first is to pass water through the skimmer and second is to create foam. on the recirc, you control the water passing through by either a ball valve on the gravity feed or a powerhead that is properly rated for your skimmer and you choose that rate, so that you can have it slower if you want or faster.

when i use to own non-recirculating in sump only skimmers and this is true about the new ATi Bubblemaster skimmers as well, if i put my hand in the sump to adjust the waterlevel within the skimmer to adjust the bubble breaking level, if my hand touches the sump water (hard to avoid), the skimmer foam head breaks down and may take awhile to get started again, so fine adjustments is a PITA sometimes. when you feed certain foods, dose certain additives, put your arm in the tank to move things around, same thing happens and it could be hours before the skimmer starts up again. on high end recircs, there's no affect when you pump your hand into the sump, also when i dose from within the sump, it doesn't affect my skimmer much either as it may slow down just a little bit and kick right up again and start skimming, so it is not overly sensitive to chemical changes within the water. i hope this makes sense.

pjf · 01/30/2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
on high end recircs, there's no affect when you pump your hand into the sump, also when i dose from within the sump, it doesn't affect my skimmer much either as it may slow down just a little bit and kick right up again and start skimming, so it is not overly sensitive to chemical changes within the water.

UCanDoIt,

Thanks for the response. I do have a follow-on question.

You mention that high-end external recirculating skimmers are not greatly impacted by dosing, feeding or putting one's hand in the water. What external recirculating skimmers under $500 are unaffected by chemical changes in the water? Would the H&S A110 be unaffected?

Thanks!

01/18/2007, 10:16 PM	#28
BryanJ Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Green Bay, WI. Posts: 2,938	What is the budget on the lighting? Retro or fixture? __________________ Experience is the best source of information! Current Tank Info: 120 gallon mixed reef, 75 gallon sump, Sequence Wahoo, Tunze stream, Euroreef CS 8-1 and 2x250 MH

01/18/2007, 11:59 PM	#31
Snausages01 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 739	What do they cost? What are the specs for them? I check the sites listed in this thread, but they didn't provide much information unless I was just looking in the wrong place. __________________ -Chris

01/19/2007, 12:11 AM	#32
pjf Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,954	Thread Wheel Skimmer The ATI Bubble Master in-sump skimmer uses a thread-wheel in place of a needle-wheel. It uses a pump similar to the Tunze pump. Here is a review of the ATI Bubble Master in the Singapore Reef Club forum: http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/inde...howtopic=51766 Here is an ATI Bubble Master thread in the ReefGeek forum: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=985567. Near the bottom of the first page is a 1/03/07 price list posted by UCanDoIt. They are sold by www.reefgeek.com but there is no information on these skimmers on the website. You have to inquire.

01/19/2007, 12:35 AM	#34
pjf Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,954	Comparisons UCanDoIt, I notice from your gallery that you have used a Deltec, an H&S, and perhaps a Bubble Master. Other than the fact that the BM is in-sump, how do their base models compare in skimming performance (BM-150, Deltec AP600, H&S A110)? PS - Thanks for your sketch of how to plumb an external skimmer.

01/19/2007, 12:57 PM	#40
Roland Jacques Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 2,848	Youcandoit, I for one, love that comparision photo. __________________ Roland

01/18/2007, 02:30 PM	#27
Greg 45 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bayonne,N.J. Posts: 1,159	IMO skimmer MTC HSA 1000 Est. $650.00 ballast EVC electronic luminarc hoods

01/18/2007, 10:50 PM	#29
mnestroy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Aurora, IL Posts: 2,216	I'm confused, can somebody give me some background on these 'bubble master' skimmers? Are they new? Why can't I find anyone that carries them? How do they have such a great rep?

01/18/2007, 11:00 PM	#30
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	Just release in USA about 3 months ago.

01/19/2007, 09:45 AM	#35
skimmy T3am Zissou Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 1,123	the ati bm 150 would kick the deltec apf600's butt, i've used both

01/19/2007, 11:15 AM	#38
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	Here's a photo I took the next day after I set the 2 up. Both skimmers were broken in and foaming well... can you see the gunk builtup in the Deltec APF600's neck in just 30 hours? Even though the Deltec was adjusted to skim very wet, see how much darker the skimmate is compared to the BM150. Just my 2 cents...

01/19/2007, 12:26 PM	#39
skimmy T3am Zissou Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 1,123	well, i 'll definately agree that the ati skims wetter, but when i ran them the ati produced more skimmate, granted, this deltec was using a maxijet for a feed, not direct from the o.f. box. truth be told i probably could have cranked the deltec up and added a little more air(the air valve was at 2:00), and i could have closed the ball valve a little more. but the fact that i got identical if not better results out of a skimmer that cost a little more than half of the deltec was the most impressive thing, so i am probably a little bias

01/19/2007, 02:02 PM	#42
pjf Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,954	UCanDoIt, It's amazing that you've been able to see the best skimmers in the marketplace side-by-side. Have you been able to compare the BM-150 with the ER-RC80, H&S AP110, or the Tunze 9010/9015? I believe that all of them cost less than $500 (if you leave off the tax and shipping). Thanks!

01/19/2007, 02:10 PM	#43
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	Nope on the new EuroReef as my local dealer has discontinued carrying them because of poor performance in the past. Of course, that's only compared to the better skimmers he's carrying now. But all the new ER with the Eheim pumps and new impellers look very promising, but he will not be carrying ER anymore for other reasons besides poor performance history. As for Tunze, I think he's will be considering that evaluation for this year. I think he's waiting for the latest line to come out with the new Sicci pumps first (same as the Bubblemaster pumps). In terms of built and performance, you can't beat the H&S. Also, I am very biased towards recirulating skimmers as they are much more easier to fine tune and control... also not subject to sump waterlevel changes or chemical changes like putting your hand in the sump or feeding or dosing your tank... they just keep skimming and kick right back after any chemical changes. If you're not concerned about built and want the performance, then the BM is definitely a great choice. I have seen all good reviews on the Tunze, but have no idea what category they fall into.

01/19/2007, 07:32 PM	#46
pjf Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,954	Bottom Line? UCanDoIt, You have quite a range of experience with top-end skimmers. Can we assume that for skimmers under $500 that you have experience with, â€¢ The H&S A110 ($460) external recirculating skimmer is your favorite â€¢ The ATI Bubble Master 150 ($399) in-sump skimmer is a close second choice? Are there any other skimmers under $500 that belong in your short list?

01/19/2007, 07:39 PM	#47
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	If we are NOT just judging a skimmer by performance only, then yes, that would be my choice. There's a lot of factors that would go into my decision making on a skimmer now, but others don't have the same criterias. My all time favorite is the H&S A150 for more $$$ and I would use it to protect anything from a small tank to as big as a 180g.

01/30/2007, 11:11 AM	#49
UCanDoIt Moved On Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 1,684	pjf - plumbing the skimmer to be gravity fed by your tank's overflow does not give you better control, but it does give you an edge to skim out the most concentrated protein, oils, foods, organics which is skim off the surface of your tank and passes through your overflow box... so, if you grab that raw tank water before it does anything, you'll have a slight edge in better skimmate. subjectively, it is 15%-20% better skimming than non-recirculating skimmers. the total control comes from being able to pass the raw tank water through the skimmer at a rate that you choose, so you are not subject to what the non-recirculating skimmer's pump pushes through the skimmer. the pump on a non-recirculating skimmer has 2 function, first is to pass water through the skimmer and second is to create foam. on the recirc, you control the water passing through by either a ball valve on the gravity feed or a powerhead that is properly rated for your skimmer and you choose that rate, so that you can have it slower if you want or faster. when i use to own non-recirculating in sump only skimmers and this is true about the new ATi Bubblemaster skimmers as well, if i put my hand in the sump to adjust the waterlevel within the skimmer to adjust the bubble breaking level, if my hand touches the sump water (hard to avoid), the skimmer foam head breaks down and may take awhile to get started again, so fine adjustments is a PITA sometimes. when you feed certain foods, dose certain additives, put your arm in the tank to move things around, same thing happens and it could be hours before the skimmer starts up again. on high end recircs, there's no affect when you pump your hand into the sump, also when i dose from within the sump, it doesn't affect my skimmer much either as it may slow down just a little bit and kick right up again and start skimming, so it is not overly sensitive to chemical changes within the water. i hope this makes sense.